Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

Zeeko Carver vs Race wing - any reviews?

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Created by Lambie 9 months ago, 11 Mar 2018
Lambie
VIC, 701 posts
11 Mar 2018 9:15PM
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Hey Foilers

Im loving my new Zeeko Bullet foil - Im now finally getting in some long foiling runs but there is a lot still happening !!!

Im flying the Carver wing thinking it would be a bit slower but also have the race wing (not tried it so far - race and beginner dont seem to mesh !!)

The Carver wing is really flat - no dihedral or anhedral and is semi low aspect. I can get it to fly at quite low speeds but it seems to be an 'on or off' wing ? Too much front foot and Im back on the water - and a little backfoot pressure and the wing climbs out of the water ?? OK Im only into my 4th hour so Im still trying to work it all out!!

I hold down the foil - surface ride and than bam its up and I have to fully commit to front foot pressure to stop it venting !!

I wonder if the Race Wing would be a little more progressive?? - but the speed from the Carver is already fast enough for me !!

As a newbie - I gather I should stick with the carver wing and master that - or maybe have a go with the Race wing ??

Has anyone had any experience with both the Carver and Race wings??

Lambie
VIC, 701 posts
11 Mar 2018 9:29PM
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I should have looked a bit harder before posting ...

Here is the answer to my question!!
issuu.com/zeeko-kites.com/docs/howtochooseyourfoilwing

mwdnasa
WA, 34 posts
11 Mar 2018 8:07PM
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Maybe you can adjust the mast position. Stance width adjustment might help too.

airsail
QLD, 298 posts
11 Mar 2018 10:33PM
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Try moving your mast forward or adjusting your rear stabiliser to give slightly more front foot pressure. It is much quicker and easier to increase or decrease front foot pressure to control height rather than alternate between front and back foot pressure.
You'll also need more front foot pressure when you learn to turn onto toeside.

warwickl
NSW, 1045 posts
12 Mar 2018 6:19AM
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I have Zeeko Carver and also struggled with it finding the freeride wing much easier.
However yesterday I put a shim (small ss washer ) under the back wing ie back screw.
What an amazing improvement in control including getting up on the foil, noticeably far less drag and this morning my legs and knees are good.
I strongly recommend you give this a try.
I also have the smaller fin under the back wing.

RAL INN
VIC, 2600 posts
12 Mar 2018 9:40AM
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Firstly that chart shows the carbon race wings. It is not quite up to date.

the Zeeko foils are traditionally very well tuned from design and testing and it is very very rare for users to play with shims and such.

Lambies Bullet has a short fuselage in comparison to earlier Zeeko foils so even more care should be taken in transferring tuning ideas.

i would be confident that all these issues Lambie is concerned with will vanish in a few more hours of quality water time.

warwickl
NSW, 1045 posts
12 Mar 2018 10:32AM
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Select to expand quote
RAL INN said..
Firstly that chart shows the carbon race wings. It is not quite up to date.

the Zeeko foils are traditionally very well tuned from design and testing and it is very very rare for users to play with shims and such.

Lambies Bullet has a short fuselage in comparison to earlier Zeeko foils so even more care should be taken in transferring tuning ideas.

i would be confident that all these issues Lambie is concerned with will vanish in a few more hours of quality water time.


Above maybe true but all manufacturers make subtle improvements year to year and this could be one for the Carver wing.
Good companies listen to their customers.
It only takes a few minutes to add the shim and unless you try you will never know.
This comment also applies to Ral Inn as making a comment without trying is not helpful.
I can assure you the carver wing will be a big improvement with the shim and I have spent many hours on both Freeride and Carver wings.

RAL INN
VIC, 2600 posts
12 Mar 2018 4:59PM
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Be Assured Warwickl your input has been forwarded to Nicolas.

RAL INN
VIC, 2600 posts
12 Mar 2018 6:09PM
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The answer to shimming rear wing from Nicolas at Zeeko.
"You can add any washer you want but from my own experience the ratio drag/ Glide is at his best with the trimming made on the production foil.
Add aoa make more power and easier turning but speed is more limited and front foot pressure increase at higher speed."

bigtone667
NSW, 991 posts
12 Mar 2018 8:00PM
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A comment on Warwick's post.....

He added his washer and had his best session ever (from an observers point of veiw). He was steady, quick, no porpoising.

The washet works.

Lambie
VIC, 701 posts
12 Mar 2018 9:33PM
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I had a good hour and a half today - Rail Inn ur right - water time does make the difference!! On port tack I can go for a hundred meters without a touchdown or a vent - loving that tack !!

Starboard tack is a completely different ball game - my weight distribution and kite control are letting me down and I have a foil graze on my thigh to prove it !! scary shXt!

The whole experience is starting to slow down a bit where I have time to think about what is not working - I just need to spend more time on the water and not get intimidated by the starboard tack ...

The shim - thats an interesting idea ? but given I can ride pretty comfortably left foot forward suggests pilot error is the major cause of the starboard tack !!

Now that Im getting the weight distributiuon better sorted I can actually get upon the foil at quite low speeds - thats probably the carver wing influence?? But the speed that it can excellerate to when it gets away on me is scary!! I think the pilot needs bigger gonads !!

bigtone667
NSW, 991 posts
13 Mar 2018 4:43AM
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You will find your feet position and upper body position will adjust over time to distribute the load more evenly and alleviate the pressure points.

Most my pain these days is in my feet and I need to lift and shift them occasionly.

It will not be too long until you will kite 10k without touching the water and doing water starts straight onto the wing.

Quite a magical device (sort of reminds me of Marty McFly's hover skateboard and a snowboard combined).

warwickl
NSW, 1045 posts
13 Mar 2018 6:46AM
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Select to expand quote
RAL INN said..
The answer to shimming rear wing from Nicolas at Zeeko.
"You can add any washer you want but from my own experience the ratio drag/ Glide is at his best with the trimming made on the production foil.
Add aoa make more power and easier turning but speed is more limited and front foot pressure increase at higher speed."


My experience is the Freeride wing is ok however Carver for me does not have equal foot pressure resulting in early fatigue and harder control. Add shim to rear wing for Carver setup and no early fatigue and even balance.
If there was any speed reduction this was not noticable on my gps.
Works for me so I am happy and not a big deal to try.
If it does not work for others easy just to chage back and no damage.

Kamikuza
QLD, 3515 posts
13 Mar 2018 9:55AM
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Select to expand quote
bigtone667 said..

Most my pain these days is in my feet and I need to lift and shift them occasionly.


Oh good I'm not the only one. Find myself just having to bail and float in the water for a bit just to ease the pain, especially in my foot arches.

RAL INN
VIC, 2600 posts
13 Mar 2018 11:57AM
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My feet ache like hell when I'm SUPing but not kitefoiling
did notice a slight calf ache in one leg but since moving front strap back another hole that's gone.
now it's back to all the other old age aches.

bigtone667
NSW, 991 posts
14 Mar 2018 4:49AM
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Select to expand quote
RAL INN said..
My feet ache like hell when I'm SUPing but not kitefoiling
did notice a slight calf ache in one leg but since moving front strap back another hole that's gone.
now it's back to all the other old age aches.



I hear ya :-)

dafish
NSW, 1258 posts
14 Mar 2018 7:03AM
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man, and I thought the foot cramping issue was just me. Funny though, after half an hour or so it settles in and it's not an issue. I used to have the same issue with supping, but not anymore. I can paddle for an hour without any issues nowdays.

eddiemorgs
NT, 334 posts
14 Mar 2018 7:07AM
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While we are talking about pain...

Does anyone get stiffness in the abs and front hips region ? After a few days of foiling

And spare me the jokes ....

DukeSilver
WA, 228 posts
14 Mar 2018 6:48AM
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I get sore feet, but mainly toes. I often have to shift around a bit on the board to get comfortable. It's amazing how just a small change in stance can make such a difference in both comfort and confidence when foiling. My front quad used to get sore when riding toe side. but I seem to be used to it now.

high as a kite
SA, 1278 posts
14 Mar 2018 11:59AM
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Select to expand quote
eddiemorgs said..
While we are talking about pain...

Does anyone get stiffness in the abs and front hips region ? After a few days of foiling

And spare me the jokes ....



I haven't seen my abb's for 40 years, no problem there.
No stiffness in the frontal hip area for awhile now.
Ah sh1t, just read your last bit

Probably just getting too old Eddie.

Kamikuza
QLD, 3515 posts
14 Mar 2018 4:39PM
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Select to expand quote
DukeSilver said..
I get sore feet, but mainly toes. I often have to shift around a bit on the board to get comfortable. It's amazing how just a small change in stance can make such a difference in both comfort and confidence when foiling. My front quad used to get sore when riding toe side. but I seem to be used to it now.



Select to expand quote
high as a kite said..

eddiemorgs said..
While we are talking about pain...

Does anyone get stiffness in the abs and front hips region ? After a few days of foiling

And spare me the jokes ....




I haven't seen my abb's for 40 years, no problem there.
No stiffness in the frontal hip area for awhile now.
Ah sh1t, just read your last bit

Probably just getting too old Eddie.


Fixed spreader bar? I usually use a Dynabar, but broke the rope and had a day or two on a fixed one, and toe side was horribly uncomfortable around the hip muscles, whatever they are...

Sore arches, I just can't get past, even moving my feet around. Just gotta stop for a bit...

dafish
NSW, 1258 posts
14 Mar 2018 5:00PM
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Select to expand quote
Kamikuza said..

DukeSilver said..
I get sore feet, but mainly toes. I often have to shift around a bit on the board to get comfortable. It's amazing how just a small change in stance can make such a difference in both comfort and confidence when foiling. My front quad used to get sore when riding toe side. but I seem to be used to it now.





high as a kite said..


eddiemorgs said..
While we are talking about pain...

Does anyone get stiffness in the abs and front hips region ? After a few days of foiling

And spare me the jokes ....





I haven't seen my abb's for 40 years, no problem there.
No stiffness in the frontal hip area for awhile now.
Ah sh1t, just read your last bit

Probably just getting too old Eddie.



Fixed spreader bar? I usually use a Dynabar, but broke the rope and had a day or two on a fixed one, and toe side was horribly uncomfortable around the hip muscles, whatever they are...

Sore arches, I just can't get past, even moving my feet around. Just gotta stop for a bit...


or learn the trick where you are sitting on the foil while straddling your legs ;) Not that I can do it mind you.

warwickl
NSW, 1045 posts
14 Mar 2018 5:37PM
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Today was possibly my most progressive todate.
With the additional ease flying on the Carver Wing due to the back wing shim I managed more than 20 up on foil jibes.
Hope it happens again tomorrow ??

bigtone667
NSW, 991 posts
14 Mar 2018 6:45PM
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Select to expand quote
warwickl said..
Today was possibly my most progressive todate.
With the additional ease flying on the Carver Wing due to the back wing shim I managed more than 20 up on foil jibes.
Hope it happens again tomorrow ??


And if you are lucky you will suffer from some stiffness.

Kamikuza
QLD, 3515 posts
14 Mar 2018 7:39PM
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Select to expand quote
dafish said..

Kamikuza said..


DukeSilver said..
I get sore feet, but mainly toes. I often have to shift around a bit on the board to get comfortable. It's amazing how just a small change in stance can make such a difference in both comfort and confidence when foiling. My front quad used to get sore when riding toe side. but I seem to be used to it now.







high as a kite said..



eddiemorgs said..
While we are talking about pain...

Does anyone get stiffness in the abs and front hips region ? After a few days of foiling

And spare me the jokes ....






I haven't seen my abb's for 40 years, no problem there.
No stiffness in the frontal hip area for awhile now.
Ah sh1t, just read your last bit

Probably just getting too old Eddie.




Fixed spreader bar? I usually use a Dynabar, but broke the rope and had a day or two on a fixed one, and toe side was horribly uncomfortable around the hip muscles, whatever they are...

Sore arches, I just can't get past, even moving my feet around. Just gotta stop for a bit...



or learn the trick where you are sitting on the foil while straddling your legs ;) Not that I can do it mind you.


Best suggestion yet!

Apologies to OP for sidetracking the thread :D

eddiemorgs
NT, 334 posts
15 Mar 2018 3:43PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Kamikuza said..

dafish said..


Kamikuza said..



DukeSilver said..
I get sore feet, but mainly toes. I often have to shift around a bit on the board to get comfortable. It's amazing how just a small change in stance can make such a difference in both comfort and confidence when foiling. My front quad used to get sore when riding toe side. but I seem to be used to it now.









high as a kite said..




eddiemorgs said..
While we are talking about pain...

Does anyone get stiffness in the abs and front hips region ? After a few days of foiling

And spare me the jokes ....







I haven't seen my abb's for 40 years, no problem there.
No stiffness in the frontal hip area for awhile now.
Ah sh1t, just read your last bit

Probably just getting too old Eddie.





Fixed spreader bar? I usually use a Dynabar, but broke the rope and had a day or two on a fixed one, and toe side was horribly uncomfortable around the hip muscles, whatever they are...

Sore arches, I just can't get past, even moving my feet around. Just gotta stop for a bit...




or learn the trick where you are sitting on the foil while straddling your legs ;) Not that I can do it mind you.



Best suggestion yet!

Apologies to OP for sidetracking the thread :D


Haha .... yeah , next trick .

I have used a dynabar with the rope slider for 3 years

Funny , cause I never ever get sore feet .
Occasionally tired back leg but can be from poor positioning and when I realise , i adjust

I might try a much more upright position , that might be the issue

Lambie
VIC, 701 posts
20 May 2018 10:05PM
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Its kind of interesting how this foiling thing just happens - Ive finally worked out that my un- natural side on the SB has some really wonky foot positions and when I take that to the foil its not pretty !! So today on an 8m kite and the SB I spent a lot of time thinking about my feet position and weight stance.
Im now 100 % sure foilboarding needs very good technique (yes I knew it but just didnt appreciate it!!) and any poor technique will bring you unstuck - board or kite flying!! I had a crack also today riding the surfboard with with parallel feet - like Ive seen on the foil guys - and thats pretty damn scary!!
Anybody that thinks they will just get up on a foil and master it is seriously kidding themselves!! And to the guys I see out there cruising on foils - hats off to you !!!!



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"Zeeko Carver vs Race wing - any reviews?" started by Lambie