2012 North 5th Element Bar - Safety Flaw

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Taurus
Taurus
VIC
189 posts
VIC, 189 posts
16 Nov 2011 10:45pm
This bar although overall fantastic, has a major safety flaw that can easily be corrected.

The depower and 5th line are prone to wrap around the bar when the lines go slack, completely disabling the primary safety system and causing the kite to loop uncontrollably.

This can be solved by employing a system like Cabrinha, stiffening the trim line and simplifying the 5th line. Ideally using a hollow plastic tube that allows the 5th line to run through it even if it does wrap around.

I consider myself an advanced kiter, unfortunately, I have had a serious near miss and serious accident (causing injury) due to this vulnerability. Last season after the near miss I passed my concerns up through the retailer however it wasn't fixed this season, I'm considering moving to Cabrinha (which I thought I would never consider).
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
16 Nov 2011 10:26pm
was it in the water man?? sorry to hear. on a north kite?? no probs using another bar, why not. Cabrina bars are good from what I see (I use the north 5th element).

What actually happened...
Taurus
Taurus
VIC
189 posts
VIC, 189 posts
17 Nov 2011 2:05am
First incident occurred during a hooked in kite loop when the end of the bar wrapped around the trim line resulting in death loops an with ineffective primary, because the 5th line also wrapped around the bar. This occurred on a 12m Rebel in a 20 knot stable sea breeze.

Second incident occurred during a failed landing where I fell forward through the bar while the kite was just above me. Again death loops with an ineffective primary, during this incident the kite looped me onto the beach faster than I could pull my secondary. This occurred on an 8m Rebel during a 25-35 knot gusty/squally day.

I have previously recommended this bar even after the 1st incident, but will recommend against it even though I've got new 2012 kites this year.
NickT
NickT
WA
1094 posts
WA, 1094 posts
16 Nov 2011 11:05pm
I've had a hook up the same on the four line bar aswell but managed to release the line from the bar. I've had more issues with bridals hooking wingtips on previous kites. I crash with slack lines a lot less these days.

Bridal v C , 4 line v 5.
There is always an element of danger in the sport with whatever gear you ride.
I wish North would go the sleeved de-power line more to eliminate excessive wear.
Gone to dark side
Gone to dark side
NSW
394 posts
NSW, 394 posts
17 Nov 2011 9:31am
Thanks For the reminder Taurs Yes we have had talks about this on the beach with other north users.I make shore that when i am comeing in to unwind the de power line before i land .Shame we have to do this at all.this goes back to 2006 at least .
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
17 Nov 2011 9:20am
I suppose once the kite is looping this could be impossible, but did you try the secondary, releasing the safety line? Again hard to get out of loop manually once primary doesn't work. Yeh, love the quality of build, but the depower rope is showing wear signs after little use (crap start to season). Same with the best redlinebar I had (now this depower rope would wear after next to little use - not to mention the other less admirable qualities, like a swivel that seizes after little use), works fine once cleaned out, two kites later crapola and changing the depower rope is a damn mission - not sure of the new one though.

Will take extra care and keep to just downlooping!! The cabrina plastic sleeve should be the standard, always liked it, except trying to reach the damn bar nearly took out my shoulder (depower to long). Expereinced kiters don't need much depower movement, using body weight and edging - which is why I love the rebels. The 2012 11m is just outstanding.
stuntnaz
stuntnaz
NSW
540 posts
NSW, 540 posts
17 Nov 2011 6:40pm
I'm going to step out their and say I use cabrinha kites. I have never had the bridal get caught around the wing tip even when i was learning and dropped my kite a far bit . I love the cabrinha bar set up ,yes it does have lots of depower, but ha less chance of being dragged up the beach . I even use my cabrinha 2n1 pulley bar on my slingshot td2 goes really well !
dbabicwa
dbabicwa
WA
809 posts
WA, 809 posts
17 Nov 2011 3:58pm
stuntnaz said...

I have never had the bridal get caught around the wing tip even when i was learning and dropped my kite a far bit .


I did, 2 days ago. On my 13m XBow 2009. It wasn't fun. Than the kite inverted and started looping even tho I've released myself.

My other kite is not Cab but likes to invert even more:(

eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
17 Nov 2011 7:09pm
stuntnaz said...

I'm going to step out their and say I use cabrinha kites. I have never had the bridal get caught around the wing tip even when i was learning and dropped my kite a far bit . I love the cabrinha bar set up ,yes it does have lots of depower, but ha less chance of being dragged up the beach . I even use my cabrinha 2n1 pulley bar on my slingshot td2 goes really well !




We are discussing the bar here aren't we? Nothing to do with kite design, it is the bar and the 5th line wrapping around the bar, causing the primary to fail.
BrisKites
BrisKites
QLD
1293 posts
QLD, 1293 posts
17 Nov 2011 9:47pm
Sorry to hear about your incident Taurus but in instances like these I wouldn't be looking at the equipment. There is and always will be an element of the unexpected and unpredictable in our sport. All I can see is if somebody managed to get a bar end wrapped with a middle line it wouldn't have mattered which bar they were using.
Bigwavedave
Bigwavedave
QLD
2057 posts
QLD, 2057 posts
17 Nov 2011 10:07pm
Sounds like a operator error rather than equipment error to me.
stuntnaz
stuntnaz
NSW
540 posts
NSW, 540 posts
17 Nov 2011 11:29pm
eppo said...

stuntnaz said...

I'm going to step out their and say I use cabrinha kites. I have never had the bridal get caught around the wing tip even when i was learning and dropped my kite a far bit . I love the cabrinha bar set up ,yes it does have lots of depower, but ha less chance of being dragged up the beach . I even use my cabrinha 2n1 pulley bar on my slingshot td2 goes really well !




We are discussing the bar here aren't we? Nothing to do with kite design, it is the bar and the 5th line wrapping around the bar, causing the primary to fail.


If you read his post again he said he was thinking of switching to cabrinha's i was just giving them a wrap !!!!!!!!
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