Thats how you set it up on the Boxer SLE. They even leave a pigtail up near the front lines (above the depower neoprene cover) and give you a piece of specially made bright orange kiteline with a loop and a piece of pvc tube to prevent wear to attach the leash to do it.

You lose the ability to flag the kite to one line off the chicken loop (as with going suicide). My leash is elasticated so the kiteline isn't. If you let go of the bar unhooked the spinner gets pulled down to the bar, depowering the kite further than you can by depowering the kite fully under normal flying conditions.

When I get home I will scan the Naish instruction page for you.

I have had the same problems (switchblade 3). The wind wasnt strong enough one day, to relaunch, so the kite landed nose down and spun backwards (suicide). The kite was still strong enough to pull me through the water (I had released the chiken loop). I thought this is a bizare circumstance to be in and I wish the the kite could either flag or land like a fifth line (like the saftey on the REV). I found the SS REV a lot better, in the way the saftey had worked.

The reason why I asked this question is that I feel that for some reason you become overpowered or the kite gets tangled or you loose a pulley which I have before (as long as it is not the front line that your safety is connected to) and the kite goes out of control.

What I was thinking was to connect the new safety line about 1 kite length away on one of the front lines so if you pull the CL safety the kite flags out. I've got long arms but not long enough to disconnect the leash from the CL and reconnect to the front line so you can self land.I do pull on the front lines above the bar to reach the ring on the front line but this causes the kite to become unstable and can be awkward. I have attached an extension to the ring but this flaps about aswell and does get wrapped around the front lines.

Cheers
Rich

OK Rich, I understand what you are saying.

If the kite is really out of control after full bar drop, due to a tangle or a broken pulley, then it would generally mean there is still power on a back line.

Deploying your system would take some strain on your front flagging line, but if your bar can only slide as far as the depower stopper then you are still going to have some back line pressure - problem not solved?

Let me know if you try it out, I would be interested in hearing the results.

what kites are you riding by the way?

Andy

I know a mate who tried the Naish kind of thing. The problem is those swivels on the cabrinha bars dont work too well, thats why they put an added swivel on the chicken loop. After a few spins The new "flagged" line gets tangled around the depower strap. If you are riding a Xbow the problem is further compounded by the pulley lines. So what you end up with is 2 back lines shorter than they are supposed to be and one front line tangled and under tension. If you get the swivel to spin (above the depower strap) it creates this new line to wrap around the whole trim strap.... in short it doesnt work!

I think the term "suicide leash" is no longer valid. People who learnt on old c kites will understand.

I have ridden xbows for the last few years and now ride revolvers (1:1) and both kites have a flagging ring on the front left line.

When using a leash i always put it on the chicken loop and ride "puched out". I have dropped the bar many times and had zero issues - the kite hardley pulls at all when punched out with released bar... even in 30+.

I think it would be stupid, and unneccesary to ride with a leash connected to the flagging ring. I also think it is unnessecary to use a leash at all with cabs unless you are going to unhook or you are worried that your chicken loop will fall off your harness hook by itself. However the flagging ring is still useful...

I have taught begginers to self land these kites by connecting their leash to the flagging ring at the time they want to land:
1.punch out while still holding the bar
2. lower kite so its wing tip is touching the ground and release the bar so your hands are free and you are just conected by your chicken loop (the kite gently bounces along a bit upwind and downwind along the ground without pulling)
3. grab the thick rubber line above you chicken loop and pull the whole lot towards you
4. clip your leash to the flagging ring which you can now reach
5. take off your chicken loop so you are just connected to your leash and pull the leash so the kite falls over and stops moving
(if you are new to this the kite will rise and do one unpowerd spin downwind before it crashes and stops, when you get used to it you can avoid the spin by running straight upwind of the kite while you pull it over)

The people i have shown this to cannot believe how easy this is even in strong wind. - I believe this is closer to the intended use of the flagging ring.

POP to self launch the SB3 either use the slide method (see vid on kitepower website) or make yourself a launch sandbag with a carabiner or other QR clip attached to it by about 1m of rope (see saffer's vid).

Pop the over ride stopper on the bar, attach the chicken loop to the carabiner, walk up to the kite and set it on the edge of the window (where it will sit stable almost indefinitely unless the wind is very gusty), walk back, hook yourself in and launch.

Same in reverse for landing.

To self land without bag, the trick is to set the kite down on the wingtip and then walk forward (into the wind) until the kite is flexing and looks like it wants to roll forward, that is the time to give the upper centre line a hard pull and it will fall LE down.

Andy

Regarding the Selflanding issue:

It is nothing easier than selflanding a SB. Fly the kite to 10 respectively 2 o'clock and push out the bar and let the bar go. The kite will turn downwards and crash smoothly onto the beach. In 9 of 10 tries it will clip down the upper wingtip into your direction and the leading edge will face upwind. Now you just need to pull on the steering line of the wingtip that is pointing to you in order to rotate the kite a bit more into the wind.

This works for me.

Cheers

Granini

"Mate, you've always gotta have your safety leash connected when you hit the beach, even the pro riders do-if you want to ride without a leash, disconnect it when your a mile out to sea-for the safety of the riders around you, and general public." ...robe

Robe, You obviously don't ride Cabs... you missed the point totally. on a cab If you are not unhooked then your chicken loop is your saftey. If you put a leash on as well you are just complicating things and adding another thing that can cause trouble. As I said on a Cab you only need the leash if you are not securely connected to you chicken loop..
As for the flagging ring on the xbows and revolvers there is no way of reaching it untill you have punched out and let go of the bar - good luck if you want to do that a mile out to sea. If you ride with a leash on this flagging ring you will likely end up in a messy big tangle

Cool..don't know why I couldn't find that!.. Looks too easy...Whats is like in 20knots though? looks kind of sketchy if you get a gust while you are walking back to your bar.. I've always worried about sandbag launches in case the kite takes off down the beach with a sandbag atttatched

POP

Hey Pint,

I don't use the slide method, too many sharp bits of coral on the beach here and not enough room. Sandbag method is my preferred option, you can have a good check of the pulley's, lines, etc while not hooked to the kite at all, then stroll back and hook in. Never had an SB move at all with this method, except once when a big lull came and it fell forwards LE down and safe.

Override stopper has not given any probs, if you were really getting dragged hard I think it would pop even on the tightest clip setting. I ride with mine on 3rd or 4th click (i think there are 5) and it will pop pretty easily for example if I mess up a backroll and land with a hard splat.

Golden rule with launching and landing these kites is - pop the override stopper and have your leash hooked to the flagging ring. Once off shore engage the stopper and move the leash to the spot above the C-loop. That way you have 3 levels of safety:
1. drop bar
2. release CL and flag kite to 1 line
3 release leash and kite goes totally free

dear sink cut,

i do ride cab3.s the 8, 10 and 12-my point was only that telling newbies that riding without a leash is okay and its not! using only you chicken loop as a safety allows you the safety of release from your kite, but what about other kiters, or general public in your vacinity? I ride and teach (IKO)where its gusty and sometimes crowded with all sorts of beach users, safety to me means safety to me and everyone my actions may harm, thats all-

Hi Robe,

I don't quite understand why people are being told to ride with a leash on the flagging ring on XBows and revolvers (not SBs) because the ring is on the front line above the trim strap, where you cannot reach.

Early last year I needed to help out a poor guy on the beach who had been told to ride like this (probably by someone who did not understand his xbow). His leash had formed a tight twist around his chicken loop, bar, back lines and pulley lines. This locked his bar and lines and had dragged him out of the water and up onto the beach before crashing. If you see someone with their leash hooked up like this you can just see its trouble waiting to happen.

I Know the SBs are different because the flagging ring is on the back line near the bar and I can see huge merit to being connected while landing and launching and even riding if you don't have to spin the bar.

The flagging ring on xbows and revolvers is un-reachable while the kite is flying so if you hook into it for launching then you are in it for your whole session, and surely its not meant to be used while riding.

The other way is to hook your leash on the black line just above the CL. This is fine if you think you are going to become "unhooked" either accidentaly or on purpose, however, this does not give you any extra depower or flagging ability, and infact in can make ditching your kite in an emergancy one step longer.

If you even slightly at all suspect there is a chance that your chicken loop will accidently come off your harness you must use a leash.

I think the key saftey advice for these kites is to ride "punched out". I ride like this all the time. I also carry a leash with me(unconnected because I know my CL will not unhook itself) so its there for emergancies or if If I want to unhook.

I am not a qualified IKO guy like you but I have been riding cabs a long time and am passionate about saftey and getting it right for each kite.

sink cut,

I agree with eveything your saying, Ive seen safetly leashes tangled, and people in all sorts of trouble and I agree there should be a better way. The only thing I might add to avoid this safety leash tangle is not to let your bar spin if your hooked on with your safety to your flagging ring. I know it happens sometimes without trying, Alligator rolling is the prefered method and Im sure that with accredited training, these methods would be taught and hopefully situations like this wouldn't occur as much. Dont get me wrong, I was all for mates helping each other to kite, thats how I learnt, but since my training, Ive realised how things can go wrong and with a little educated knowledge situations can be avoided more easily.
I must add, I'm not familier with the xbow and revolver, having never riden either, I will be looking into it when i get the chance, but thanks for the heads up for a big problem with them,
I hope our discussion isnt confusing anyone!!!we aim to help-

Anthony