Always onshore???

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AquaPlow
AquaPlow
QLD
1066 posts
QLD, 1066 posts
7 Sep 2012 1:29pm
What I want - information on conditions, circumstances (Your experience / solo or group / equipment age etc) when you are prepared to kite in an off-shore wind.

There are numerous video clips of people doing this, articles on surfing etc.

I know beginners should not. I am aware of the safety considerations.
If this thread turns into a LEASH or no Kite LEASH style beat up do not bother to post.

So - discuss - I want some tips / food for though....

Thanks
AP
(even w/o wind on the W/E it is finals time - Yeeeaaahh)
Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
7 Sep 2012 1:41pm
Safety tips:

1. don't go out further than you can swim back
2. don't hesitate to ditch your kite if you can't get it back up again and its taking you further out. you can replace a kite if its not picked up by the coast guard. that said, there are times where you may be too far out to swim back and ditching your kite at this point is more dangerous because you lose your floatation and potential visibility to rescuers.
3. definitely not beginners
4. there are variations of offshore. we often kite offshore at brighton as an example, its slightly cross off, not direct offshore
5. offshore is almost always gusty (air travelling over land creates turbulence)
6. with offshore you need to be aware of what is downwind. I.e. if its open ocean, its more dangerous than a piece of land 1km away. worst case with the piece of land, you'll eventually hit it. with open ocean, worst case is they never find the body.
7. water temperature is an important consideration. if water and air temp is really cold, spending too much time floating or waiting for rescue could result in hyperthermia so its more dangerous to kite offshore in these conditions.
8. wind speed is important for offshore. light wind means more chance of the kite dropping out of the sky and not being able to relaunch. also less chance of staying upwind so if you think the wind is going to die, don't bother or don't stray too far from land
9. be aware that if everything else goes well, you could still have equipment failure and be in trouble. lines snap, bladders burst etc.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23688 posts
WA, 23688 posts
7 Sep 2012 12:09pm
^^ +1

and to add - if you have to ditch any gear ring the water police or coast guard, whatever you have where you, are so they don't spend time searching for a "missing" kiter when somebody finds the kite or board
Chris6791
Chris6791
WA
3271 posts
WA, 3271 posts
7 Sep 2012 12:41pm
Saffer said...

Safety tips:

1. don't go out further than you can swim back



work out how far you think you can swim then at least halve it


Plus, don't go out alone or in small groups, leaving a kiter on the beach as a spotter is smart. And a kiter is a better option than someone who knows nothing about kiting, they can tell when a kite down is a problem or not.

If you have boat/jet ski support available use it and have it in the water ready to go.

Don't rely on a rescue service to come and get you and your kite, their response time to you will be an hour or more (and thats assuming you aren't remote and someone calls it in straight away), by that time you could be 5 k's off shore and very fkn cold and lonely.

If a rescue boat has to come get you don't think for a second they are interested in recovering your inflated kite and 100 or more metres of tangled line. Unless you have already done a deep water packdown expect it to be left behind. Which takes you back to Saffers point 2, if in doubt ditch your kite early and swim in.

Personally, unless you are happy kiting with a safety margin close to zero it's too much of a risk without boat support. So you need to find a mate with a boat that doesn't kite... hmm I think I have one living across the road
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
7 Sep 2012 1:06pm
I'll kite in a slight cross off wind but thats it. however in offshore i can fire up the landboard and kite on the beach. in trueth i usually can't be arrsed as its too gusty.

ps if you have an estuary and a sand bar down wind then go bannana's. but that is not really a true offshore.
Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
7 Sep 2012 3:13pm
Add the following to it:

10. Learn to pack up your bar and lines in the water. If you don't know how to, learn it because its an essential skill (check youtube if in doubt, there used to be some tutorials on it)
Juddy
Juddy
WA
1103 posts
WA, 1103 posts
7 Sep 2012 1:25pm
Putting this into a Perth metro area context, IMO there's only thing to do when it's offshore - don't go kiting @ the beach (obviously river/estuarine locations are different).

Kiting in offshore conditions in/around Perth is blatantly stupid & whilst AquaPlow says "I know beginners should not..." all it takes is for one newbie to see a kite out in offshore conditions, get the idea in their head that it's ok to go kiting, and hello, if the various GWS's haven't had a nibble, the newbie has missed Rotto & it's look out Mauritius, here I come...ok, slight exaggeration but the message is there.

Kiting in offshore conditions is inherently unsafe & if we all go back to Kitesurfing 101 - rule number 1: don't go out when it's offshore. Why not stick to that advice?
Chris6791
Chris6791
WA
3271 posts
WA, 3271 posts
7 Sep 2012 1:54pm
Triggerhappy said...

If you want to go out in off shore winds and you are on your own, take one of these http://www.gme.net.au/products/emergency-beacons/plbs/MT410G. If you get in trouble you will easily be found if the sharks don't get you first.


This isn't suitable for marine applications, only good for water ingress to a depth between 15 cm and 1 metre. www.aceeca.com/handhelds/ip67 . A proper marine PLB/EPIRB is going to be too big and bulky to kite with.

Juddy hit the nail on the head, just don't go out in offshore. Kind of what I was trying to say without being so blunt. The exception maybe only if you have a recovery boat available as part of your group session, and a recovery boat is a bit different to being rescued.
Kym1
Kym1
QLD
29 posts
QLD, 29 posts
7 Sep 2012 4:23pm
In my opinion it's a simple case of how much risk you're prepared to accept. i.e if it all goes pear shaped would you be prepared to lose your kite to the ocean and paddle back in?

Some things I do when kiting off shore:
Only on a surfboard, bigger the better. That way you can paddle in.
Try to take mates or at the very least let someone know that you're going out. Don't go too far past or away from the breakers, these are handy if you lose your kite.
Get someone onshore to take photo's because if all goes well it'll be an epic session!
Prawnhead
Prawnhead
NSW
1317 posts
NSW, 1317 posts
7 Sep 2012 4:27pm
take up surfing!
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
7 Sep 2012 4:56pm
My favourite spot is off shore, with little waves, between an island and the mainland connected by a sand spit. It's waist deep out for 100m and down wind the long beach wraps around. So worst case is ending up on the beach and a 2 km walk back.

doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
7 Sep 2012 3:01pm
Prawnhead said...

take up surfing!


best idea yet!!
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23688 posts
WA, 23688 posts
7 Sep 2012 7:29pm
Kym1 said...

In my opinion it's a simple case of how much risk you're prepared to accept. i.e if it all goes pear shaped would you be prepared to lose your kite to the ocean and paddle back in?

Some things I do when kiting off shore:
Only on a surfboard, bigger the better. That way you can paddle in.
Try to take mates or at the very least let someone know that you're going out. Don't go too far past or away from the breakers, these are handy if you lose your kite.
Get someone onshore to take photo's because if all goes well it'll be an epic session!


Even then I dunno.
I have been 600m offshore windsurfing at a reef break and scored a dislocated shoulder. It was a cross shore. IF I was not assisted by the very nice bloke who helped me, I could have held onto my gear and drifted but would never have hit land. Nobody would have known until the missus maybe rang the coppers after dark so maybe a search would have started 12hrs later.

If it was even slightly onshore, I would have at least known I'd hit land eventually.

I have also had mates go down with broken stuff and a number of people looking for them (sailing around and also bino's from shore) and we could not spot them for upwards of an hour (basically until they washed up on shore). It is surprisingly hard to see them in a 2m swell and 25kn.

AquaPlow - think about how fkn scary the worst scenario is, then answer your own question.
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
7 Sep 2012 9:58pm
Too many good onshore, cross or cross off to put yourself in such situations. Forget it unless you have some geographical features that make it safe.
AquaPlow
AquaPlow
QLD
1066 posts
QLD, 1066 posts
8 Sep 2012 1:27am
Faith restored - thanks for the good posts.
My interest is in the cross and may be ever soooo slightly offshore.

As a kid I was the test pilot for our home made Hang-gliders (250+ hours clocked on those!!) but at my current vintage I am way too risk adverse to consider more than a few points off cross shore and even that is a point too far at present.

I aim to have learnt 2 things this summer, 1) surfing (+ down winders) on a directional, 2) staying on my Sector 60 when tacking (gawd I am finding this hard) so I can have a larf at racing without cleaning too many others up!!

Cheers
AP

Jared888
Jared888
WA
389 posts
WA, 389 posts
8 Sep 2012 2:42pm
I am not a beginner, but fk up a lot. been kiting for almost 2 seasons

My thought procces is pretty simple, Am I prepared to let the kite go.
At the moment I have a couple of good ones so yeah any wind condition is good

I love a couple of break at home where the wave are too fat to surf but the set up for kiteing are ammazzingg!!!

Just remember the longer you leave it to decide you cant get back to shore the longer you have to paddle with your harness
terminal
terminal
1421 posts
1421 posts
8 Sep 2012 4:33pm
The question is really down to can you self-rescue or do you have a boat to rescue you?

Relying on the government rescue service as your backup IMO shouldn't be part of the plan.
We saw with the Polish guy in the Red Sea that things dont always swing into action faultlessly, and in this example, even the German rescue service somehow wasn't in a position to save her.
kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2344200&hilit=germany

Its down to risk assessment and taking everything into consideration. Every person and situation and day is different. You have to make the right call because you may not have a chance to correct it if you dont.
gcdave
gcdave
534 posts
534 posts
8 Sep 2012 4:33pm
Jared888 said...


My thought procces is pretty simple, Am I prepared to let the kite go.


Conditions pending,think twice about ditching an inflated kite that could help you stay afloat for many hours in a self rescue, in shore or offshore winds
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
8 Sep 2012 4:40pm
AquaPlow said...
If this thread turns into a LEASH or no Kite LEASH style beat up do not bother to post.




*wink. ^^^

Kitesurfing in strong, straight onshore wind is way more dangerous than offshores.

Sideshore is the ideal wind direction.

Jared888
Jared888
WA
389 posts
WA, 389 posts
8 Sep 2012 5:23pm
gcdave said...

Jared888 said...


My thought procces is pretty simple, Am I prepared to let the kite go.


Conditions pending,think twice about ditching an inflated kite that could help you stay afloat for many hours in a self rescue, in shore or offshore winds


I agree with you about thinking twice about ditching kite...although for different reasons.....$$$

I like your avatar BTW gcDave

All this talk of 3rd party rescue is a load of BS!! why would you be kiteing that far out in an offshore wind when all the good water is close to shore between the waves Im missing somthing here im sure I will be enlightened, When surfing you have to paddle out the back, when kiting you dont! whats different about paddling in after letting your kite go, than just paddling in from a surf except for the cost and associated littering of the kite



gcdave
gcdave
534 posts
534 posts
8 Sep 2012 6:04pm
Jared888 said...
whats different about paddling in after letting your kite go, than just paddling in from a surf except for the cost and associated littering of the kite


What's different is having to explain to people not only about your kite, but why you wear boardshorts over your wettie
iandvnt
iandvnt
QLD
581 posts
QLD, 581 posts
8 Sep 2012 11:19pm
I think the answer to this is to be able to dig yourself out of any **** u dig yourself into without help and part of that is maybe choosing not to go out at all. some cross off waves are on headlands with bays hooking around teh corner so you will still end up on land if u mess up which is good thing.

It can be super gusty. There are so few perfect kiting waves on planet earth any pimped ones can get quickly over crowed, I am sure the all time best waves/footage going down on planet earth is not being facebooked /youtube /pimped for that very reason. Kiting is way more fussy than surfing for perfect setups, it's always a pain in the ass, always issues to deal with at best spots in world with good setups.
Chris6791
Chris6791
WA
3271 posts
WA, 3271 posts
8 Sep 2012 9:53pm
Jared888 said...

gcdave said...

Jared888 said...


My thought procces is pretty simple, Am I prepared to let the kite go.


Conditions pending,think twice about ditching an inflated kite that could help you stay afloat for many hours in a self rescue, in shore or offshore winds


I agree with you about thinking twice about ditching kite...although for different reasons.....$$$

I like your avatar BTW gcDave

All this talk of 3rd party rescue is a load of BS!! why would you be kiteing that far out in an offshore wind when all the good water is close to shore between the waves Im missing somthing here im sure I will be enlightened, When surfing you have to paddle out the back, when kiting you dont! whats different about paddling in after letting your kite go, than just paddling in from a surf except for the cost and associated littering of the kite





Problem is you really arent going to need to dump your kite so close to shore but you might still be in a pickle. While you are busy thinking you can recover, reset and relaunch you are all the while getting pulled further out. By the time you figure out you are still in the poo you are a long way out. Hence reducing you safety margin to zero and being willing to dump a $1800 kite early.
Jared888
Jared888
WA
389 posts
WA, 389 posts
8 Sep 2012 10:16pm
Chris6791 said...

Jared888 said...

gcdave said...

Jared888 said...


My thought procces is pretty simple, Am I prepared to let the kite go.


Conditions pending,think twice about ditching an inflated kite that could help you stay afloat for many hours in a self rescue, in shore or offshore winds


I agree with you about thinking twice about ditching kite...although for different reasons.....$$$

I like your avatar BTW gcDave

All this talk of 3rd party rescue is a load of BS!! why would you be kiteing that far out in an offshore wind when all the good water is close to shore between the waves Im missing somthing here im sure I will be enlightened, When surfing you have to paddle out the back, when kiting you dont! whats different about paddling in after letting your kite go, than just paddling in from a surf except for the cost and associated littering of the kite





Problem is you really arent going to need to dump your kite so close to shore but you might still be in a pickle. While you are busy thinking you can recover, reset and relaunch you are all the while getting pulled further out. By the time you figure out you are still in the poo you are a long way out. Hence reducing you safety margin to zero and being willing to dump a $1800 kite early.



good point ...it isnt as easy as I say

I do speak from experience and all be the big talk I am very aware of the risks. I lost a kite at cape lewin, 12m cab first one I owned, because I didnt have the confidence to pin my ears back and just have a crack getting to shore after a rush of blood and a few boosts off some waves before I knew it I was out the back and the wind seemed a lot stronger....so pop pop ....I tried to paddle side saddle with harness but realized i had to take it off to get the paddling momentum going long story short got back with no drammas and went for a walk down the coast the next day to find my kite with minimal damge.

I will offer some sound advise if I may....if your not a lunatic or attached to life in any reponsibility roles, like a parent. Go with your gut and if you feel comfortable and have a sound plan.....YOULL BE RIGHT MATE
SUPSurferQLD
SUPSurferQLD
QLD
336 posts
QLD, 336 posts
9 Sep 2012 9:22am
When I was in the Philippines, on a kiteboarding safari, we kited around an island and the leeward side was offshore. Couple of beginners with us too, who ultimately ended up out at sea and had to be rescued with the IRB.

Dont do it unless you are 100% confident you can get back to the beach safely.
Jedibrad
Jedibrad
NSW
527 posts
NSW, 527 posts
9 Sep 2012 12:33pm
This is a good topic as it raises the risks concerning an offshore set up.
One of my favourite waves is an offshore spot wsw is best so next stop is NZ bro...
Things to consider;
Can u swim ??
Can u swim against a foot or two of steep chop ??
Can u swim against a foot or two of steep chop for an hour or two ??
Make a plan of what you are going to do so you can do it early
If u ride a twin tip you may have to dump all your gear
I usually kite there alone, but u if feel safer in numbers then practice towing each other upwind
au_rick
au_rick
WA
752 posts
WA, 752 posts
10 Sep 2012 4:44pm
ask a mate with a boat to go out with you and take video ?
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