Had a awesome session today on holiday in tassie. Came in after a few hours, pretty rooted.... Argued with myself about going back out and eventually decided to go for a final quick blast.

Launched the kite, bent down to pick up my board and the fu@kin chicken loop popped off my harness. Obviously was left hanging out of the kite fully powered. Went to grab the chicken loop but it was too late. Kite bombed and hit the one and only fencing stake on a 2 mile stretch of beach. Straight through the canopy. 'SAKE!!!!!!!

I definitely put the donkeys dick under the chicken loop.

Anyone else have this happen?

2012 ozone bar (catalyst)
Dakine harness.

I've had the same problem with my Naish 2012 2013's. I've ended up putting a bit of hard plastic rod into the finger and has not happened since.

Yes unfortunately. It depends on the quality and thickness of the donkey dick. To avoid, and if you're not going to try unhooked moves, I fashioned a small-ish donkey dick underneath the metal hook on the harness end to point away and into the chicken loop. Sort of like two donkey dicks at the same time. Never had the problem again. It's easy to make with a bit of thick rope and an empty plastic sleeve from an old TV coaxial cable.

This happened to me also a few times but in my case the donkey dick was fine but while I was launching my kite the CL had moved & was only just sitting on the very edge of my spreader bar. When I reached down to grab my board it slipped right off.
Every time I launch now i check that the CL is secure - no more problems.

had same problem on my Zephyr on one of first launches in light wind. Now i hold the loop and dick in place on every launch - no problem since then. once there's tension, she's right

there's a similar CL on my Griffin bar, do the same on that for every launch.

I think the problem maybe started before you even launch the kite, when not under tension the chicken loop somehow gets into such a position that its actually being held by only the donkey dick and not the chicken loop, surprisingly the kite still flies for a while like this until you turn hard or put extra force on it then it just pops out..after it happened to me a few times I made a point of checking as I had no idea why and sure enough I found after a launch the donkey dick was the only thing holding the power of the kite. Since I've noticed it and make sure on every launch to check the chicken loop is firmly in to the spreader bar it's never happened again...sounds like the problem your having maybe. For what it's worth I also fly ozone..

Of course holding the loop/dick will work but is it not the whole purpose of the set up so you don't have to?

If there is tension on the lines the donkey dick is not needed at all as the loop is resting on the hook. The whole purpose of the donkey dick is to guide the loop back onto the hook when slack in the lines occurs.

very common with the ozones over the past few years

one solution a lot of my mates have turned to is a harness/spreader bar mounted dick flexifoil do them and i think maybe ozone do them as well
the effectiveness of this is dependance on the size and style of the spreader bar and the hook shape

i personally use a climbing caribeener - 100% confidence and no compromise of safety systems

Been using 2014 Reo's this year which I totally Love But the chicken loop has been comming off regularly and it is starting to give me the s###s It's happen out on the water and also when launching ,what to do??

2010 ozone 17m Zypher bar does it too I thought it was just me thanks for the advice guys

Also, on Naish Bars, I have found after time that the donkey dick attachment (sewn on part) can slide further up the chicken loop, making it's length shorter through the spreader bar and easier to slide out and become unhooked. Simply try to push it further down, which will give the donkey dick more length through the spreader bar, and hence less chance of slipping out because it is too short.

This is a regular enquiry in the shop and I've seen this thread surface under different titles several times. Its operator error 99% of the time, if its happening on launch, you simply forgot to look down prior to launch and check that the chicken loop had not worked its way off or half off, as you walked across the wind dragging your lines to your launch position.
If its coming off in the water, its mostly from pulling in on the bar too hard.

These are two very simple and effective solutions (other than modifying your habits and techniques)

A larger thicker cable tie is best, but this size works ok.



www.kitepower.com.au/collections/kitesurfing/kites+ozone

Kitepower Australia said..

This is a regular enquiry in the shop and I've seen this thread surface under different titles several times. Its operator error 99% of the time, if its happening on launch, you simply forgot to look down prior to launch and check that the chicken loop had not worked its way off or half off, as you walked across the wind dragging your lines to your launch position.
If its coming off in the water, its mostly from pulling in on the bar too hard.

I Beg to differ on your "Its operator error 99% of the time" (but nice work insulting all of your customers)

in my experience and close observation of other landboarders this is definitely not the case

- yes if you launch the kite and the bar gets ripped out of your hands its pretty obvious that you were not hooked in correctly (nice work Columbo ! )

but as this has been discussed at many a kite event that i have attended, at the bar/BBQ/on the field watching it happen or even whatching videos back and seeing it first hand.

There was/is always some people that had different views but the general consensus was always the same, that it was a result of trying new tricks/not quite getting a trick right (over rotating/underrotating etc. . .) or freaky terrain and therefore freaky angles (only really applicable on land and snow)

chicken loop slides back slightly (just out of hook) kite powers up donkeydick holds untill next power increase (trick/turn etc. . .) donkey dick lets go

this is also more common on but not exclusive to rough finish donkey dicks (like the ozone one) as the smoother ones are more effective at letting the chicken loop slide back into the hook

your argument that is is from pulling on the bar to hard is not valid either (except in very extreme newb situations) because that is exactly why donkey dicks are used - to retain the chicken loop should the lines or general tension on the chicken loop become slack

also your cable tie solution is not actually a solution, for it to work it needs to be stiffer that the donkey dick that is letting go.
i have however seen lots people use this cable tie solution when a donkey dick is lost or snapped off but it is weaker/worse than the original



NOTE: I used landboarding refrences as opposed to kitesurfing as this is the one style of kiting where constant close observation is possible and the social aspect is way more involved and therefore the discussions/observations/photo's and footage are far more common - it is quite common in the uk to plant yourself in the middle of the flying/tricking area with a camera and observe the tricks and fails first person.
. . . . .more observation/more footage/more pics/more discussion = more data = more informed

this is definitely also related to riding style as well but not necessarily experience i know kiters who've ridden most kiting diciplins for over 10 year who i see as quite accomplished kiter's and this still happens others on the same kit who never have a problem


Rant over :)

airjunkie said..

Kitepower Australia said..

This is a regular enquiry in the shop and I've seen this thread surface under different titles several times. Its operator error 99% of the time, if its happening on launch, you simply forgot to look down prior to launch and check that the chicken loop had not worked its way off or half off, as you walked across the wind dragging your lines to your launch position.
If its coming off in the water, its mostly from pulling in on the bar too hard.

I Beg to differ on your "Its operator error 99% of the time" (but nice work insulting all of your customers)

in my experience and close observation of other landboarders this is definitely not the case

- yes if you launch the kite and the bar gets ripped out of your hands its pretty obvious that you were not hooked in correctly (nice work Columbo ! )

but as this has been discussed at many a kite event that i have attended, at the bar/BBQ/on the field watching it happen or even whatching videos back and seeing it first hand.

There was/is always some people that had different views but the general consensus was always the same, that it was a result of trying new tricks/not quite getting a trick right (over rotating/underrotating etc. . .) or freaky terrain and therefore freaky angles (only really applicable on land and snow)

chicken loop slides back slightly (just out of hook) kite powers up donkeydick holds untill next power increase (trick/turn etc. . .) donkey dick lets go

this is also more common on but not exclusive to rough finish donkey dicks (like the ozone one) as the smoother ones are more effective at letting the chicken loop slide back into the hook

your argument that is is from pulling on the bar to hard is not valid either (except in very extreme newb situations) because that is exactly why donkey dicks are used - to retain the chicken loop should the lines or general tension on the chicken loop become slack

also your cable tie solution is not actually a solution, for it to work it needs to be stiffer that the donkey dick that is letting go.
i have however seen lots people use this cable tie solution when a donkey dick is lost or snapped off but it is weaker/worse than the original



NOTE: I used landboarding refrences as opposed to kitesurfing as this is the one style of kiting where constant close observation is possible and the social aspect is way more involved and therefore the discussions/observations/photo's and footage are far more common - it is quite common in the uk to plant yourself in the middle of the flying/tricking area with a camera and observe the tricks and fails first person.
. . . . .more observation/more footage/more pics/more discussion = more data = more informed

this is definitely also related to riding style as well but not necessarily experience i know kiters who've ridden most kiting diciplins for over 10 year who i see as quite accomplished kiter's and this still happens others on the same kit who never have a problem


Rant over :)

I didn't insult all my customers did I, please don't hurt your brain thinking about that for too long?
Only a very small number of people are experiencing this problem, that alone should indicate that the problem is related to something that particular flyer is doing.
I offered practical solutions, not an insult, that are cheap and effective and actually work, based on real life experience from real people kitesurfing, not landkiting. Cable ties work, end of story. Kite landboarding, using kitesurfing kites is a tiny fraction of the total market. Advanced landkiters, and lets face you'd have to be fairly competent, to have a go at some of the stuff I've seen you UK masochists do!
Also if you know it can happen through all that close observation/discussion/video (please post up some of these analytical videos) and you still don't train yourself to look down and check that your chicken loop has not partially rotated and come off the hook, I'd call that operator error too.

I don't think that the perfect chicken loop and donkey dick combo has been invented yet, and I also think that fixed herness hooks are part of the problem, I use a rope mounted hook on a dynabar and the chicken loop never comes off while riding, but it can come off at launch and I hold it until there is tension on the lines. I have not had the chicken loop come off in the water even when I've crashed badly in a botched turn, like tonight and the lines went slack on a Best 2014 Cabo 9m.
The reason chicken loops come off when riding with a fixed harness hook is pretty simple, rapid change of direction/angle of pull combined with a lessening of tension on the centre lines.
How do you explain that some of the best kitesurfers use no donkey dick at all and never come unhooked?

Kitepower Australia said..



I didn't insult all my customers did I, please don't hurt your brain thinking about that for too long?
Only a very small number of people are experiencing this problem, that alone should indicate that the problem is related to something that particular flyer is doing.
I offered practical solutions, not an insult, that are cheap and effective and actually work, based on real life experience from real people kitesurfing, not landkiting. Cable ties work, end of story. Kite landboarding, using kitesurfing kites is a tiny fraction of the total market. Advanced landkiters, and lets face you'd have to be fairly competent, to have a go at some of the stuff I've seen you UK masochists do!
Also if you know it can happen through all that close observation/discussion/video (please post up some of these analytical videos) and you still don't train yourself to look down and check that your chicken loop has not partially rotated and come off the hook, I'd call that operator error too.

I don't think that the perfect chicken loop and donkey dick combo has been invented yet, and I also think that fixed herness hooks are part of the problem, I use a rope mounted hook on a dynabar and the chicken loop never comes off while riding, but it can come off at launch and I hold it until there is tension on the lines. I have not had the chicken loop come off in the water even when I've crashed badly in a botched turn, like tonight and the lines went slack on a Best 2014 Cabo 9m.
The reason chicken loops come off when riding with a fixed harness hook is pretty simple, rapid change of direction/angle of pull combined with a lessening of tension on the centre lines.
How do you explain that some of the best kitesurfers use no donkey dick at all and never come unhooked?

I've calmed down now - crap day at work and yes i was very offended by your statement
I like others never had this problem occur for just short of 9 years on land water or snow untill i switched to my new favorite brand Ozone in 2011 i know this does not happen to everyone it depends on many factors

you say only a very small number of people but earlier you said that. . . "This is a regular inquiry in the shop "

as for kitesurfing kites rarely being used on land then you really are badly informed it is the preference for so many riders at the intermediate to advanced level- (also as a distributor you will have noticed one brand in most cases = one chicken loop design for all land/water or snow)

i used landboarding not kitesurfing and the uk as a reference for the reasons i listed above no need to reiterate

It is a nice fantasy that you have that when you are learning or attempting to learn new tricks that you can spend the whole time looking at your chicken loop but that's just not realistic - maybe that is why you yourself have adapted your own setup as you explained ?

I, like you have flown with many kiters on land and water that use no donkey dick at all with no problems
I am fully aware that this is not a problem for the majority but it is a problem for some due to many variables - not just incompetence

I can see from your erratic and self contradictory reply that you were offended by what i said and i suppose that was what i intended at the time.

For that i would like to sincerely apologize to you

your general advice was sound i was just insulted by your initial statement and reacted somewhat unreasonably

I've had this happen on my Core GTS with Sensor bar twice too, once on launching and once mid ocean out of the blue.