Crossbow Safety Leash?

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coastflyer

601 posts

coastflyer

SA, 601 posts

4 Jun 2006 5:35pm

I'm learning on a second hand Xbow 12m, and love the kite! The other day, the wind suddenly picked up from 12-15k to 25-30k and there was nobody on the beach to help me land it!! I had practised letting the bar go to total depower in only light winds but felt very suss about doing it in this gale! I was hooked in with the donkey dick and wish that I had some sort of leash to totally flag the kite, near the sand, but obviouslly didn't. I have studyed these forums but have not found what I think I need to know.
Q1-what is a good type of leash, and how should be fitted to my Xbow so that it can still spin and not tangle everything. A diagram would really help!
Q2-has anybody got a self landing technique that they would like to share.
Q3-Cabrina manual says never use donkey dick with safety leash. Is this correct as leash attached to one rear line can apparently make this type of kite go into very dangerous axial roll.

Please help, as all I want to do in a emergency, is to flag kite, pull in line and secure kite. By the way, after 20 mins another kiteboarder rolled up and grabbed my kite. Unless my life was in danger, detaching from kite was not a good option, due to danger to people downwind.

Kitepower Australia

NSW

4382 posts

Kitepower Australia

NSW, 4382 posts

5 Jun 2006 5:26am

Glad you survived without hurting yourself, anyone else or your kite!

Cabrinha make a leash designed for the Crossbow, Contra 2006 and Switchblade kites, it sells for $49.

Even in the winds you had, you can still let go of the bar. You would just fly the kite to the edge of the window, as low as possible to the ground and just let go.

But if you had a leash, you would fly with it clipped around the black plastic covered centre line, above the red chicken loop release, but below the bar. This gives you a 95% depower spinning leash.
If you need to flag the kite to one line in an emergency or to self land, just fly to the edge, and let go of the bar when the kites tip is on the ground, the kite will just sit there. Hold the centre line and step towards the kite, and pull the centre line towards yourself at the same time. Now you will be holding or can reach the flagging ring, the centre line does not have much pull on it, because the kite is 95% depowered. So hold the centre line with one hand and unclip your leash from below the bar, and clip it to the flagging ring.

Slowly let out the centre line as you take a step away from the kite. Once you are ready pop the chicken loop release, and walk upwind of your kite if it moves downwind of you.

Wait until it has settled on the ground, then walk to the kite, with your leash still attached to you, by holding that one flagged centre line, hand over hand until you get to the kite. Some people will put the centre line under their harness hook and slide their way to the kite.

Done you have safely self landed. Pat yourself on the back pack up and go shout yourself a beer, send me a case too if you like! :-)

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

PS I might finally get my own video camera today, if I win the auction, then I will be making a lot of helpful hint vids!!

quote:
Originally posted by coastflyer

I'm learning on a second hand Xbow 12m, and love the kite! The other day, the wind suddenly picked up from 12-15k to 25-30k and there was nobody on the beach to help me land it!! I had practised letting the bar go to total depower in only light winds but felt very suss about doing it in this gale! I was hooked in with the donkey dick and wish that I had some sort of leash to totally flag the kite, near the sand, but obviouslly didn't. I have studyed these forums but have not found what I think I need to know.
Q1-what is a good type of leash, and how should be fitted to my Xbow so that it can still spin and not tangle everything. A diagram would really help!
Q2-has anybody got a self landing technique that they would like to share.
Q3-Cabrina manual says never use donkey dick with safety leash. Is this correct as leash attached to one rear line can apparently make this type of kite go into very dangerous axial roll.

Please help, as all I want to do in a emergency, is to flag kite, pull in line and secure kite. By the way, after 20 mins another kiteboarder rolled up and grabbed my kite. Unless my life was in danger, detaching from kite was not a good option, due to danger to people downwind.

silviu

VIC

663 posts

silviu

VIC, 663 posts

5 Jun 2006 8:04pm

All this issue with the safety leash for Bow kites is starting to be blown out of proportions.
If Cabrinha or the kite shops decided to save few dollars on safety leashes, what on earth is stopping us to buy one, or to make one.
What's so complicated in getting a length of rope, attach two small carabins (like the ones you can buy at any yacht shops) and here you have a safety leash.
I have done it so many times on the beach, when someone else lost or forgot his safety leash.
So stop winging about.
Who needs and wants a leash, can have one in no time.
Be proactive, do something and do not kite without a safety leash because the shop didn't provide a safety leash, this is not an excuse.

And by the way, there are not good or bad leashes, is only ONE LEASH - the one that "flags" the kite.
All the rest are just as dangerous as not having a leash.

dachopper

1806 posts

dachopper

WA, 1806 posts

5 Jun 2006 8:07pm

Steve? can I just confirm that this guy seems to be asking for an actual safety line, and what he did do is fly the kite to the end of the window, punch the bar away giving him the same depower and problems as what your telling him to do?

Coast flyer I can tell you that if you want to have a safety line allways there don't just hook it on your centre line as steves saying because it bwecomes a suicide leash and not a safety line, hook it to the flagging ring and ride with it on the flagging ring and attatched to you, if you bail, the kite will flag onto 1 line, become a mess and you will need to swim in or you can simply bail on the beach to put your kite down, again , total depower but you will probably get a big knot somewhere and messy lines. Unfortunately the cab bows don't have a spinning leash setup standard so if you hook your safety on to the flagging ring, every time you twist your lines you will need to unwind or spin in the water , hence why hardly any riders on the bowes ride with their safetys connected to the single line.. cause it sucks. but what steve said would be the next safest thing to do in the landing case if that is all your worried about, it doesnt help you out at all if your riding and something happens that stops you from depowering the kite though.

doppelganger

VIC

337 posts

doppelganger

VIC, 337 posts

5 Jun 2006 11:48pm

Silviu, "Chill out", IMO the the reply's so far have been pro active and coastflyer wasn't winging about no leash comming with the kite, or anyone else. Ya need to get out for a ride on ya bike, get that breeze in your face

Bunning's also have some nice little stainless carabena's for about $4.00 each.

What type of rope do you use?,and what do they call the strechy water proof kind? I'm wanting to make a second leash, to wrap around my harness to use for emergencys and clipping to the board for the odd relaunch in rough water.

coastflyer

601 posts

coastflyer

SA, 601 posts

6 Jun 2006 8:54am

Thanks guys for your replies and help, especially Steve, I will go out and purchase a original lease, as it appears to have a emergency disconnect built into it and that may be hard to make using some marine grade rope. It was a very surreal experience standing there connected to this very powerful kite and not having the confidence to JUST let go of the bar! Steve, just to confirm, one end around black plastic main depower line, below bar, but above red harness loop quick release, the other end to the small steel ring next to the centre line red ball (Emergency Shutdown Ball). I was a sailboarding instructor and feel frustrated at myself for not fully understanding all of the specifics of this amazing sport. This forum is a great way to share knowledge and once again I really do appreciate the assistance.

Kitehard

2782 posts

Kitehard

WA, 2782 posts

6 Jun 2006 7:50am

Hey Coastflyer,

Any leash connected to the chicken loop or centre line is a "suicide leash". What Steve says is true in that you have 90% depower with the kite but that doesn't help you if you happen to get a small tangle on the bar pulleys which stops the bar letting go all the power or the stopper ball jams from some piece of crap caught in the ball.

A proper leash must go from the spreader bar to the single front line or 'flagging line' if you will. That way when you land you get true depower of the kite once you punch out of the chicken loop.

Steve's method is great once you are experienced with the procedure and provided nothing goes wrong, if however something does go wrong, you're in a world of sh1t. To make the leash a spinning one, just buy the little spinning ring thingy from Airush which bolts on under the spreader hook and attach your leash to that. Alternatively, if you have something against Airush, buy the spinning hook spreader bar from Peter Lynn. Now you have a proper safety leash, a means of completely killing ALL of the power in the kite and it spins without any major issues.

The spinning doodad from Airush is probably about 50 bucks so there really is no excuse to do it properly. The suicide leash Steve is talking about is for experienced riders who are riding unhooked so they don't lose their kite in the water, it is NOT a safety leash designed to kill ALL power.

Good winds,

bondo

QLD

699 posts

bondo

QLD, 699 posts

6 Jun 2006 9:54am

@silviu - cheap leashes can and do break in higher wind conditions, its happened to me and ive seen it many times. Ive also had the internal bungee in a leash snap leaving it twice as long as when i bought it. So IMO they are not all the same - its better to buy a good one with a QR.

gruezi

3464 posts

gruezi

WA, 3464 posts

6 Jun 2006 8:47am

Hey Coastflyer, I agree 100% with Kitehard.

Another option, the one I use, is the SS Surefire Spreader Bar. You have quick release on the hook (very good in my opinion) and you can spin the bar (not super smoooth, but works for me). Don't forget to put a stopper ball on the safety line to avoid major line tangles.

On numerous occations I have managed to "flag" the kite and then relaunch.

Kitepower Australia

NSW

4382 posts

Kitepower Australia

NSW, 4382 posts

6 Jun 2006 7:30pm

With respect to Dachopper and Kitehard, the advice given to Coastflyer is the same as I give to every bow kite user.

The main reason Bruno Legainoux developed these kites is because of the "at least 95% depower" that occurs when the bar is dropped.
Attaching the leash to the depower line is not a suicide leash, that refers to connecting a leash to the front lines of a C shaped kite that will not depower 95% when the bar is dropped.

Suicide leashes are called that for a very good reason!

Connecting a bow kite leash where I have recommended is no different to letting go of the bar, which is the primary safety system of all bow kites.

Flagging the kite to one line (second level of safety system) introduces C shaped kite safety or emergency strategy to bow kite use, and its just not an ideal thing to do. (as a primary level of safety, or an action that should be performed at the first hint of danger)

Flagging a bow to one line should not be a first resort, letting go of the bar is the primary safety on a bow kite.

If a bow kite has a bridle tangle and is spinning or death spiralling, flagging it is not a 100% certain way of stopping the spinning. There are many posts on forums saying that flagging the kite to one line either did not help or made the situation worse.

Letting go of the bar is the primary safety, holding the centre line and then clipping a leash to the flagging line is an option to self land the kite in stronger winds (or light winds), and MIGHT help in some bridle tangles (which are rare, especially for begginers). The leash has a release,to fully release the kite, which is the third stage of safety.

It is the responsibility of all kiters to practice and fully understand all the above.

If a spinning system is wanted, then the leash can be connected as described, around the trim line, or a leash can be connected to a flagging centre line,and then attached to a spinning spreader arrangement like the Airush doover or the Peter Lynn spreader bar, etc.

If the leash is clipped on the centre line the other release end needs to be attached to your spreader bar, the Cabrinha stock leash has a spreader bar fitting to make this easy.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

PS I have flagged bow kites to the centre line and had them hover and spin in the air - not always but it has happened. There is a long thread on kiteforum about dangerous issues resulting from flagging the sonic/waroo type kite to a rear line.
There is another thread about a person who survived a kite mare resulting from a 5th line leashed kite wrapping, bowtieing, and then death spiralling (User also had no release on the 5th!! Doh!).

Kitesurfing cannot be made 100% safe, saying any kite depowers 100% is incorrect and irresponsible.

richrelative

162 posts

richrelative

WA, 162 posts

7 Jun 2006 2:01pm

quote:
Originally posted by Kitepower Australia

With respect to Dachopper and Kitehard, the advice given to Coastflyer is the same as I give to every bow kite user.

The main reason Bruno Legainoux developed these kites is because of the "at least 95% depower" that occurs when the bar is dropped.
Attaching the leash to the depower line is not a suicide leash, that refers to connecting a leash to the front lines of a C shaped kite that will not depower 95% when the bar is dropped.

Suicide leashes are called that for a very good reason!

Connecting a bow kite leash where I have recommended is no different to letting go of the bar, which is the primary safety system of all bow kites.

Flagging the kite to one line (second level of safety system) introduces C shaped kite safety or emergency strategy to bow kite use, and its just not an ideal thing to do.

Flagging a bow to one line should not be a first resort, letting go of the bar is the primary safety on a bow kite.

If a bow kite has a bridle tangle and is spinning or death spiralling, flagging it is not a 100% certain way of stopping the spinning. There are many posts on forums saying that flagging the kite to one line either did not help or made the situation worse.

Letting go of the bar is the primary safety, holding the centre line and then clipping a leash to the flagging line is an option to self land the kite in stronger winds (or light winds), and MIGHT help in some bridle tangles (which are rare, especially for begginers). The leash has a release,to fully release the kite, which is the third stage of safety.

It is the responsibility of all kiters to practice all the above.

If a spinning system is wanted, then the leash can be connected as described, around the trim line, or a leash can be connected to a flagging centre line,and then attached to a spinning spreader arrangement like the Airush doover or the Peter Lynn spreader bar, etc.

If the leash is clipped on the centre line the other release end needs to be attached to your spreader bar, the Cabrinha stock leash has a spreader bar fitting to make this easy.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

PS I have flagged bow kites to the centre line and had them hover and spin in the air - not always but it has happened. There is a long thread on kiteforum about dangerous issues resulting from flagging the sonic/waroo type kite to a rear line.
There is another thread about a person who survived a kite mare resulting from a 5th line leashed kite wrapping, bowtieing, and then death spiralling (User also had no release on the 5th!! Doh!).

Kitesurfing cannot be made 100% safe, saying any kite depowers 100% is incorrect and irresponsible.

Let's not make a broken toe into brain surgery,KISS keep it simple stupid and by advising this method Kitepower accepts full responsibilty and any liabilities that may occur of such advice. We have it in writing

Kitepower Australia

NSW

4382 posts

Kitepower Australia

NSW, 4382 posts

7 Jun 2006 7:00pm

It is the responsibility of all kiters to practice all the above. ( in my post prior to this one)

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

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