Forums > Kitesurfing General

Do as i say not as i do

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Created by the walks 1 month ago, 14 Oct 2017
the walks
WA, 446 posts
14 Oct 2017 1:57PM
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Just looking for general feedback here guys and gals, I'm noticing at my local beach spots kite instructor's teaching in offshore winds!! As a instructor with 9 yrs experience this concerns me, i have always advised my students never to kite in offshore winds, that being said, when teaching does that give a instructor the right to brake 1 off the most important safety rules??????? Feedback please

Chris_M
1517 posts
14 Oct 2017 2:23PM
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Maybe for the land based stuff (if that's still part of the IKO course... it's been a while since I taught) but even then wouldn't the wind be pretty cruddy?

the walks
WA, 446 posts
14 Oct 2017 2:54PM
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Yep, light offshore with a forcast storm coming, kite in air and on the water, student and instructor standing in waterline. As instructors we all make judgement calls about conditions, my point here is should we be teaching learners in conditions that we tell them not to fly in, in my opinion safety is the most important part of what we do ??

Weta
WA, 729 posts
14 Oct 2017 4:07PM
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In short NO.

People learning have enough info to assimilate. Teaching in offshore conditions is a recipe for disaster. I can just imagine a newbie wanting to get out for their first kite and thinking as they had a lesson at the beach in offshore winds it must be fine to kite in the same conditions.

cauncy
WA, 5528 posts
14 Oct 2017 4:23PM
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If the student has a nice arse
id say it's totally ok,

Weta
WA, 729 posts
14 Oct 2017 4:41PM
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Cauncy jests aside as someone who is setting up and running a kiting event next month promoting safety should be Very High on your agenda.

cauncy
WA, 5528 posts
14 Oct 2017 4:44PM
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Weta said..
Cauncy jests aside as someone who is setting up and running a kiting event next month promoting safety should be Very High on your agenda.


Have you a nice arse

juicerider
WA, 758 posts
14 Oct 2017 4:46PM
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Mullaloo?

cauncy
WA, 5528 posts
14 Oct 2017 4:54PM
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Safety, Carnt get out of that
were bombarded with applications permits all safety related, we've had to submit our safety to get approval
in Tony's case I'd be having a chat, you need 250/300 mtrs of total clearance for winds to be clear of inland influences,
The drama I see is when the student leaves that beach and has a play on his own in offshore conditions, if the said instructors doesn't get a rev up ,he will continue with this practice,

the walks
WA, 446 posts
14 Oct 2017 5:04PM
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Select to expand quote
juicerider said..
Mullaloo?


No, no names or exact location, whats your thoughts steve ? the instructor will read this and hopefully reassess. I don't what to offload on a public forum, just looking for people's opinions ??

Chris_M
1517 posts
14 Oct 2017 6:14PM
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Yep, have seen some pretty crappy behaviour from instructors over the years and it makes you wonder hey?

To reiterate, the only thing I reckon you could do without endangering a student is the trainer kite stuff, but as I say, when I was teaching last (ages ago) the IKO was beginning to phase that out and get students straight onto big kites so as to not freak them out when they jump up to the big ones... not sure if that ever became standard practice?

But agree, anything water based in offshore is asking for trouble and is totally irresponsible.

Not to thread hijack but have also been seeing a few local instructors putting learners on kites that are way too big "to get them up and going faster". There are so many things wrong with that approach I wont even begin to list them.

cauncy
WA, 5528 posts
14 Oct 2017 7:01PM
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Select to expand quote
Weta said..
Cauncy jests aside as someone who is setting up and running a kiting event next month promoting safety should be Very High on your agenda.


Scenes of humour
some have it
some don't

thefacts
50 posts
14 Oct 2017 8:40PM
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the walks said..

juicerider said..
Mullaloo?



No, no names or exact location, whats your thoughts steve ? the instructor will read this and hopefully reassess. I don't what to offload on a public forum, just looking for people's opinions ??


Were you even there or getting this second hand? Never seen you at pinnaroo other than possibly a sponsored demo day. Latter I would assume.... yes I was and don't recall seeing you and NO I am not the instructor.Wind was cross shore (southerly, a few people were contemplating going for a kite) with occasional SSE. If you were there you would know that this was done on the beach at the point were the dog beach starts i.e cross shore. If you were standing at the entrance to pinnaroo point roughly where the fence ends it looked suspect but taking 15 steps forward towards the water it told a different story.
Don't want to offload on a public forum - best only comment on things if you were present. We all know your affiliations so keep the turf war inhouse.

theDoctor
NSW, 4209 posts
15 Oct 2017 12:38AM
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Select to expand quote
cauncy said..

Weta said..
Cauncy jests aside as someone who is setting up and running a kiting event next month promoting safety should be Very High on your agenda.



Scenes of humour
some have it
some don't


Same could be said of dictionaries

the walks
WA, 446 posts
15 Oct 2017 6:14AM
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thefacts said..

the walks said..


juicerider said..
Mullaloo?




No, no names or exact location, whats your thoughts steve ? the instructor will read this and hopefully reassess. I don't what to offload on a public forum, just looking for people's opinions ??



Were you even there or getting this second hand? Never seen you at pinnaroo other than possibly a sponsored demo day. Latter I would assume.... yes I was and don't recall seeing you and NO I am not the instructor.Wind was cross shore (southerly, a few people were contemplating going for a kite) with occasional SSE. If you were there you would know that this was done on the beach at the point were the dog beach starts i.e cross shore. If you were standing at the entrance to pinnaroo point roughly where the fence ends it looked suspect but taking 15 steps forward towards the water it told a different story.
Don't want to offload on a public forum - best only comment on things if you were present. We all know your affiliations so keep the turf war inhouse.



Select to expand quote
thefacts said..

the walks said..


juicerider said..
Mullaloo?




No, no names or exact location, whats your thoughts steve ? the instructor will read this and hopefully reassess. I don't what to offload on a public forum, just looking for people's opinions ??



Were you even there or getting this second hand? Never seen you at pinnaroo other than possibly a sponsored demo day. Latter I would assume.... yes I was and don't recall seeing you and NO I am not the instructor.Wind was cross shore (southerly, a few people were contemplating going for a kite) with occasional SSE. If you were there you would know that this was done on the beach at the point were the dog beach starts i.e cross shore. If you were standing at the entrance to pinnaroo point roughly where the fence ends it looked suspect but taking 15 steps forward towards the water it told a different story.
Don't want to offload on a public forum - best only comment on things if you were present. We all know your affiliations so keep the turf war inhouse.



There had to be one, as your mask suggests, you knows it all ????

cbulota
WA, 1099 posts
15 Oct 2017 8:41AM
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After the blackmail and the bullying comes the smear campaign.

How low are you guys going to go with this teenage-like behavior? Is the next step to send guys to beat me up in the car park?

I can very easily demonstrate how wrong your information is since I keep a detailed record of all my lessons activities including footage that I send to my students as part of the lesson service.


The sea breeze arrived at Pinnaroo at exactly 2:40pm that day which is when we began the kite setup.

We launched the kite shortly after 3pm. It was a steady cross to cross-ON shore breeze blowing at around 12 to 14 knots, perfect for a first land-based lesson and the kite flew really well on short 14m lines.

We flew the kite where the X is marked on the map which is where my permit and the council allow me to operate.

In fact, everyone knows that due to the steep dunes at Pinnaroo it is simply impossible to fly a kite in that area if the wind is Off-shore, especially on short lines.

Since the student already had prior training we were ready for a practical self-rescue, so he went for a body drag + self-rescue in cross-on shore winds at 3:36pm. Below is a picture of this body drag with the corresponding time stamp and GPS that clearly shows the appropriate wind direction.






And here is the video of the student coming back to the shore from his self-rescue at 3:39pm with the corresponding time stamp/GPS




Now explain how would this even be possible to achieve in off-shore wind?


After the self-rescue we learned the relaunching techniques from the shore.

Shortly after 4pm the wind (which was then southerly i.e Cross-shore) became too light (under 10 knots) so I decided to stop the lesson at the 1h Mark.

The wind stayed southerly for another hour, allowing me to have a quick hydrofoil session before the storm came in shortly after 5pm.

Initially coming from a different school, the student was super stoked about this 1H lesson and has already booked an 8 Hour package. My student's friends and family (some of which kitesurf) were all on the beach watching the lesson and they will all be happy to verify this information.

People aren't stupid, in the long run all these childish attacks end up affecting your credibility and the credibility of the business you work with. Your time is better spent trying to get some customers rather than spying on my activities.

Christian

thefacts
50 posts
15 Oct 2017 9:01AM
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Select to expand quote
cbulota said..
After the blackmail and the bullying comes the smear campaign.

How low are you guys going to go with this teenage-like behavior? Is the next step to send guys to beat me up in the car park?

I can very easily demonstrate how wrong your information is since I keep a detailed record of all my lessons activities including footage that I send to my students as part of the lesson service.


The sea breeze arrived at Pinnaroo at exactly 2:40pm that day which is when we began the kite setup.

We launched the kite shortly after 3pm. It was a steady cross to cross-ON shore breeze blowing at around 12 to 14 knots, perfect for a first land-based lesson and the kite flew really well on short 14m lines.

We flew the kite where the X is marked on the map which is where my permit and the council allow me to operate.

In fact, everyone knows that due to the steep dunes at Pinnaroo it is simply impossible to fly a kite in that area if the wind is Off-shore, especially on short lines.

Since the student already had prior training we were ready for a practical self-rescue, so he went for a body drag + self-rescue in cross-on shore winds at 3:36pm. Below is a picture of this body drag with the corresponding time stamp and GPS that clearly shows the appropriate wind direction.






And here is the video of the student coming back to the shore from his self-rescue at 3:39pm with the corresponding time stamp/GPS




Now explain how would this even be possible to achieve in off-shore wind?


After the self-rescue we learned the relaunching techniques from the shore.

Shortly after 4pm the wind (which was then southerly i.e Cross-shore) became too light (under 10 knots) so I decided to stop the lesson at the 1h Mark.

The wind stayed southerly for another hour, allowing me to have a quick hydrofoil session before the storm came in shortly after 5pm.

My student's friends and family (some of which kitesurf) were all on the beach watching the lesson and they will all be happy to verify this information.

People aren't stupid, in the long run all these childish attacks end up affecting your credibility and the credibility of the business you work with. Your time is better spent trying to get some customers rather than spying on my activities.

Christian


And now we have the facts with proof, time to take a walk ??

Chris_M
1517 posts
15 Oct 2017 12:23PM
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Whoops didn't realise I'd walked into an internet fight.....

*backs out of room slowly*

the walks
WA, 446 posts
15 Oct 2017 1:55PM
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Ok, back from my round of golf ?? once again, not getting involved in a slagging match, no names mentioned here, but if you want me to we can start whenever you fancy, just remember, perth is a very small kiting community and for the record, this is about my concerns, there is no one pulling my strings, any body and every body that knows me will confirm that, peace and love ????????????????

juicerider
WA, 758 posts
15 Oct 2017 2:02PM
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Select to expand quote
the walks said..

juicerider said..
Mullaloo?



No, no names or exact location, whats your thoughts steve ? the instructor will read this and hopefully reassess. I don't what to offload on a public forum, just looking for people's opinions ??


O this has got interesting quick , I'm guessing this thread had taken a different turn than you were expecting . A few days away and I've missed all the fun.
Well you asked for my thoughts , so here they are.
I think it looks fine for teaching south of the point in a southerly
I think it looks fine for teaching on the point in a southerly
I think it's not fine for teaching from the access road north, in anything other than a sw.
I think mullas also is not suitable in a southerly.
I think you should not take any notice of my opinions on offshore winds as I've just been out in perfect offshore winds with nobody else on the water kitesurfing for several hundred kilometers
I think you should stop causing a bad atmosphere at my local.
I think you should stop coming down to the beach just to call the ranger and post slander on sb.
I think if you really see something going on you should dealt with it there and then.
I think you should kitesurf at pinnarroo sometimes.
I think you should have your happy face on when you are at the beach.
I think there are very many ways you can help your sponsor build his business, but passive aggressive bullying is not one.
I think you have been called out and done damage to your sponsors rep
I think this thread will soon be locked if bullying behaviour is linked to a site sponsor?.
Anyway this is just my thoughts , and only because you asked.
Come on Let's keep the beach a friendly and enjoyable place to enjoy our passion.

the walks
WA, 446 posts
15 Oct 2017 2:37PM
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I have no idea about blackmail, bullying, smear campaign or rangers being called, as for this backfiring, your missing the point, I'm actually feeling like i'm being bullied for asking for opinions on a public forum.
How sad

bjw
NSW, 2317 posts
15 Oct 2017 5:58PM
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It's easy to hang poo on the instructor, but if you get paid a regular weekly salary then perhaps listen to his story first.

If the student has limited time, or the instructor gets paid by the hour, then leave it to them to negotiate a time and safe place.

Harden up Aussies. What have we become? A nation of regulated princesses?

thefacts
50 posts
15 Oct 2017 3:32PM
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the walks said..
I have no idea about blackmail, bullying, smear campaign or rangers being called, as for this backfiring, your missing the point, I'm actually feeling like i'm being bullied for asking for opinions on a public forum.
How sad


Think you are missing the point - you posted it (still waiting to hear if you were there or heard this second hand) then expected everyone to jump on the bandwagon. Your claims proved baseless and now you feel bullied....
As you mentioned Perth is a small kiting community and everyone deserves a fair go. So let's get on with it as reputations in this small community can become tarnished with baseless claims.

the walks
WA, 446 posts
15 Oct 2017 3:48PM
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Select to expand quote
thefacts said..

the walks said..
I have no idea about blackmail, bullying, smear campaign or rangers being called, as for this backfiring, your missing the point, I'm actually feeling like i'm being bullied for asking for opinions on a public forum.
How sad



Think you are missing the point - you posted it (still waiting to hear if you were there or heard this second hand) then expected everyone to jump on the bandwagon. Your claims proved baseless and now you feel bullied....
As you mentioned Perth is a small kiting community and everyone deserves a fair go. So let's get on with it as reputations in this small community can become tarnished with baseless claims.


Feel free to step forward zorro

HENDO 77
WA, 167 posts
15 Oct 2017 6:55PM
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time to settle this once and for all
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

touch107fm
WA, 70 posts
15 Oct 2017 8:08PM
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thefacts
50 posts
15 Oct 2017 8:16PM
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Select to expand quote
the walks said..



thefacts said..




the walks said..
I have no idea about blackmail, bullying, smear campaign or rangers being called, as for this backfiring, your missing the point, I'm actually feeling like i'm being bullied for asking for opinions on a public forum.
How sad






Think you are missing the point - you posted it (still waiting to hear if you were there or heard this second hand) then expected everyone to jump on the bandwagon. Your claims proved baseless and now you feel bullied....
As you mentioned Perth is a small kiting community and everyone deserves a fair go. So let's get on with it as reputations in this small community can become tarnished with baseless claims.





Feel free to step forward zorro




I am assuming you are congratulating me on out foxing you - if confused check the Spanish translation of Zorro. So were you there, no response on this as yet?

cauncy
WA, 5528 posts
15 Oct 2017 8:37PM
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cauncy said..
If the student has a nice arse
id say it's totally ok,


Here you go I foxed him out,
kitebud only does offshore lessons, Carnt blame him imho


cauncy
WA, 5528 posts
15 Oct 2017 9:53PM
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Select to expand quote
cauncy said..

cauncy said..
If the student has a nice arse
id say it's totally ok,



Here you go I foxed him out,
kitebud only does offshore lessons, Carnt blame him imho



My bad
just noticed she isn't wearing a bikini top
onshore kiting should be promoted

Aspiremr
WA, 60 posts
16 Oct 2017 8:19PM
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Man this thread's fantastic reading, better than a mills and boon. I think I understand the guts of it, and who is having a go at who, but it would be so much easier if I only knew who all the alias's really were. Obviously I haven't been around the kiting world long enough yet.

Game on, continue as you were, LOL.

Aspiremr
WA, 60 posts
16 Oct 2017 8:20PM
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And there definitely should be more kiting wihtout bikini tops for sure.



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"Do as i say not as i do" started by the walks