Many guys fly foils and love them. As a beginner you are going to crash the kite a lot into the water. Foils are water relaunchable but will not float forever like inflatables while you're struggling to relaunch. Self rescue and relaunch may be a problem at your stage.

You don't need a bigger kite than your Ion2 14.5m just more skill and maybe a bigger board for light wind. Think 152cm x wide. Smaller kite, maybe a 10m should then be all you need.

The only problem with foils is availability. With inflatables you can go to a kiteboarding shop, try a kite out, choose the colour you want, and haggle a half reasonable price.

With foils you have to import them yourself or deal with a small scale local dealer. You may or may not be able to try them. The prices are 10-20% higher.

If you want a relaunchable foil you can buy Flysurfers (expensive), or Peter Lynn arc-style kites. The Arcs are quite popular and not so expensive and have no bridles.

The other problem with foils is that most of the riders of them are "enthusiasts". They tend to exagerate the qualities of their kites, and they tend to be of low skill. There are exceptions. Aaron Jarman was Australian Wave kiting champion on Arcs, but he would have won on anything.

bananas27 said...

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm a newy.

I want to know why foil kites aren't very popular for kiteboarding.
I've tried trainer kites of many sizes and they seem to give a lot of power for something so small + they work quite well in light winds (I've only tried them on land though so I don't know).

I've seen them advertised in magazines which means they do sell, but I've only ever seen one being used on the water (maybe I should have asked them).

Apart from the obvious one of not being water re-launchable, what are the big disadvantages to them? are there any true advantages to them?

Main reason for asking is I was thinking of buying one because I want a good lighter wind kite (10-15 knots) and am not sure if this is the way to go or if I should just get a 16m or bigger regular kiteboarding kite (I'm about 95kg / 6'3").

Also, how early is too early to start a quiver? (assuming money isn't an issue)

My current kite is an Ion2 14.5m, which seems fine in 15-25ish knots.

G'day

Your questions are not stupid at all, and foils are generally misunderstood by most kiters, there is a lot of BS spread by people who know nothing about them.
As a begginer kiting in 10 knots is not really going to be possible, the kite will end up in the drink and you'll end up not having a lot of fun. Stick to winds around 12/13 knots and above, or get specific light wind gear and be prepared for some swims.
Foils do work for kitesurfing, the Flysurfer brand is quite popular with people who like that type of kite. Peter Lynn have made a series of kites based on the Arc design that also work very well.
HQ have released a hybrid version of the above 2 kites, I've heard its not doing so well for them.
Foils with bridles usually have a larger projected area than a comparable inflato, and thats why they can be so much more powerful. A small bow style inflato kite will have very similar power to a trainer foil, but they are too costly and fragile to be widely popular.

All foil kites have reduced flotation compared to a downed and not punctured inflatable so there is that side that most people consider makes inflatables safer, I tend to agree.
Flysurfer kites do relaunch extremely well once the technique is learned, and of all the foil kites I think they are the best for reliabale relaunching.
All foils require no pump, cannot get slow leaks and punctures, and are generally more durable and tolerant to beach abuse.

If you are taught on a Flysurfer or PL kite you will do well on them, but many people cannot stand the complexity of the bridle on the Flysurfer kites and do not understand it and maintain it, so have problems with them.
Same goes for PL kites, and they lack the bottom end of a good inflatable and punchy crisp performance, there is a doughy quality to foils generally compared to modern inflatables.

There is a good inlfato that will give you excellent bottom end and is a good kite to build a quiver around and a quiver includes a quiver of boards (at least 2). The Ozone Zephyr will get you going from 10-12 knots to 20+ and handles as quickly if not quicker than your Ion, which was a good kite in its day.
Also a Cabrinha 2010 SB IDSX 14M will have a few knots better botom end than the Ion, and would also make a good base kite to build a quiver on, you can demo Ozone and Cabrinha kites at Kitepower Qld in Redcliffe.

Get a bigger board for light days, something around 1.40-1.50 at least 45cm wide, and then something smaller for normal windy days around 1.35 -140 and 40-43cm wide. Underground/Nobile/Cabrinha/Slingshot/Best/Airush/North/Liquid Force, etc make some excellent options for light and strong wind boards, and of course there are many other brands too.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Have never flown a foil but back in late 2004 when i started on inflato C kites, everyone on inflatos used to laugh at the fact that some foils had strange shapes and bridles etc.

Whaddaya know - a couple of years later most kiters were riding bow/sle/hybrids with funny shapes , bridles etc.

Kiting is a VERY trend oriented and fickle sport sometimes. Me thinks cost (flysurfers are pretty exxy - as are most kites these days) and lack of marketing in this part of the world plays an enormous part. Euro travellers used to love em cause they could pack 2 kites to cover 30 kns range in the space of 1 LEI inflato.

They work - all be it differantly. Just like SLEs vs Cs vs Deltas yada yada yada.


There is DEFINATELY inflato snobbery in this town. Foils are still derided as doonas and any fk up by a foil rider is deemed to damning for all foils for some reason? Who kn cares what someone else is riding - if they are stoked, good on em'.

The RRP of Flysurfer is set in Euro in Germany - the price drop is due to recent stronger $AUD.

Flysurfer are actually cheaper in Oz than Europe because we pay 10% GST while they pay 17%!

lol

Hi Banana,

This is my 6th season on foil kites (Flysurfer). I would like to add the following comments.

- there are probably as many differences between the two main foil kite brands (Flysurfers and Peter Lynn) as between the 2 most different inflatable kites on the markets.

- Relaunching Flysurfer kites have always been one of their strength. You pull the back lines of the crashed kite, the kite flies backward, you rotate the kite and it's done. The process takes less than 2 seconds.

- an inflatable is as difficult to sink as a closed plastic bin bag. The air is trapped inside the kite, and in my experience, still floats after 45min in the juice (though I remember Ben de Jong writing that he managed to sink one many years ago?). Flysurfer kites have flaps that close once the kite is in the water to keep the air inside. Unless you are kilometres offshore, a Flysurfer kite won't sink.

- The main inconvenience of having multiple bridles is to scare LEI flyers. Of course, they are more prone to tangle than if you have 4 lines, however, the time I spend to untangle my lines is probably 20% of the time to set up an inflatable kite.

- foils have advantages and drawbacks, like any kites.
IMO, a selection of advantages are: no pumping, quick to set up, durable, one set of gear to kitesurf and landboard;
IMO, a selection of drawbacks are: expensive, seaweeds in bridles if the beach is covered with seaweed.

Hope this helps

Fred

Wow, thanks heaps for all the information. Kite boarding is very diverse isn't it. I've got a bit of thinking to do by the looks haha.
Definitely need a second board though, that much is clear already.

I also find it amazing how friendly and helpful a lot of the experienced people are in this sport, not to mention patient.

All of the peter lynn kiters on the sun shine coast from 9years back,(including my self)

are all on pump ups now, and lovin it. even arron jarman

Hi bananas27,

As already mentioned by others and as you noticed, closed-cells foil kites are not mainstream... and for that reason you will see lots of wrong info about these over the net or when talking to (even experienced) kiters on the beach, because most people simply do not have experience with this type of gear. How many times did I get the question: "and what about if you drop it into the water, do you have to swim back"??? This is funny I think, but it also shows how most people know nothing about it.

I only ride on the water, have tried quite a few inflatable kites but ride Flysurfer kites only now and currently own 3 (15m, 10m, 6m) and love them. I don't know Peter Lynn kites much, only tried once and what I can say is that they feel completly different. For me, the key benefits of Flysurfer kites:
- quick set up / solo launch
- smooth flying behaviour
- light wind perf (for the Speed model only)

I also enjoy the easy reverse-launch, small when packed up, not having to worry about punctures or pump, ability to fine-tune the bridle lenght for best performance or best stability, light bar pressure...

Also, note that the R&D on Flysurfer is serious with massive progress on each new model: each model is upgraded every 2-3 years only, completly re-designed (not just a change of clour scheme). For example on the Psycho4, which is about one year old, the projected area of the kite is changeable: it is decreased when you push the bar out / increased when you pull the bar in. Also, as far as I am aware, the Psycho4 is the first kite ever made to be able to turn slightly faster while de-powered (as opposed to slower on any other kite): very convinient to keep the flying speed up in the low end and to steer the kite in the surf.

Feel free to ask any question on these kites, I am really passionate about these, always happy to provide info (as objectively as possible! I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, just trying to avoid having too much incorrect things said by people who just spend too much times on forums and don't know what they are talking about).

cheers
Jacques