WA
368 posts
WAKSA is looking for input on what format would be prefered by the riders for the freestyle component in the 2005 nationals to be held in WA
A few event organisers have suggested a Mambo format .
WAKSA want to make these Nationals about the riders and for the riders .
The main concerns are of course safety ,practicality and a fair result that is acceptable to the riders .
At this point WAKSA is extremely open to suggestions on a new format .
We would also like input on what you would like to see in the comp
eg Freestyle
Waves
Big air
Race
Should all these have a percentage rating and then be counted towards an overall champion or should we have a Freestyle only comp as it has been in the past ?
Do we hold it in waves as was the case at the Gold Coast or do we make it a flat water event ?
WAKSA is about representing the memebership , please let us know what you would like to see and/or compete in .
WA
2782 posts
G'Day Guys,
As a participant in every nationals so far in this country, I'd like to throw a few ideas at you.
Firstly, the comp IS about the riders and is a competition to find the best allround kiter. This means all categories of riders should have their needs attended to.
We already have enough "Fun" events like Mambo and the wind Jam etc. The Nats are the only really serious event we have on the calendar and as such it should be treated as so by remaining a double elimination event with heats of 4 riders at a time.
Here's the difference. I reckon we need a combined score made up of two disciplines a)wake style on flat water, with the inclusion of sliders and kickers for point multipliers and more variety and
b)wave riding in the surf and maybe a race (time permitting).
This would also make it easier to judge with less argumants at the end of the day.
These first two disciplines should contribute to a final score. Your overall position in rank should be added up from each discipline and combined lowest score wins overall championship.
Points as follows:-
1st = 3/4 point
2nd = 2 points
3rd = 3 points
etc etc
Ie; 1st Place in Wake = 3/4 point, 2nd place in surf = 2 points. Total score would be 2 and 3/4 points which would beat say a 2nd and 2nd in both formats giving 4 points.
Big air is generally fluked with a chance gust and so doesn't represent skill but favours riders of high aspect ratio kites and doesn't allow lower AR kiters a fair chance. It also takes up valuable time. Timing is always a bit dodgy too as it relies too much on human pushing buttons exactly which allows human error factor.
A race is fun and could be added as a fun discipline if the comp is finished with time to spare. Again the nightmare of how to start a large group of kites is a major problem and again favours high AR performance kites.
The Nats are about determining the best all round kiter in Australia and many regard this as a serious event in which their performance can have big impact on future sponsorships, travel, etc, so we need to keep it serious.
We could allow riders not competing in a heat to ride on adjacent wave breaks or to use the sliders if the wave event is being judged. This will allow everyone to both compete and have fun free riding when they are not in heats which should keep everyone happy.
I think it is almost impossible to get a fair result from a surf only or flat water only format. Last years nats were testiment to that with the amount of pissed off riders.
These are just a few ideas I have had and I welcome others to comment and maybe improve these thoughts. It must be fair to everyone!
Darren Marshall
WA
368 posts
Thanks Darren , this is what we need .
Come on guys , we need more , Rez , Jake , Damo , Dale .....
Let us know what you want .
we also want to hear from everyone else , not just from the competitors .
VIC
98 posts
Yeah kitehard sounds reasonable.
Just a suggestion: hold it on the east coast, in melbourne preferably, in front of my house. And there must be naked girls to launch and land kites!
WA
441 posts
How many people are there going to be competing? how many days will the comp be held over?
why dont you plan for the two types and send out a poll to the nominated riders 2 months before the nationals, majority rules..
It will depend on the location for the nationals if you want to run a flat water/wave event. I like darrens idea of the points system this would work well at lano where you have good flat water and waves if you are lucky.
Only down side is viewing the wave event at south passage for the ground crew.
I like the idea of the all in and then select the top 8 (or what ever) riders for an all in 1 hour long final the next day. with everyone judging.
This worked well at SOS comp except woodies couldnt hold 10+ riders in the final. I think lano would be alright with 8 riders with a priority buoy (that people know how to use!) Only down side to this would be how you would cater for juniors/old farts in the rankings.
would you have a final for each age group?
ideas every one has one.
shane
WA
422 posts
Double elimination format....
waves.....
race......
Best rider over all categories/placing = National Champion
Mambo style/Windjam style is flat out dangerous.....
WA
649 posts
At this stage WAKSA is looking at running the Rotto Classic the weekend before the Nationals - one question is whether people want to include the results as part of the overall National championship.
Like Darren, I personally would like to see the Oz Champion to be the "best allround kiter" of as many different disciplines as possible.
The 2005 Nats are going to be FOR the riders, so what do you want?
Cheers,
Ian Young
www.flysurf.com.au
0414 716 812
WA
2782 posts
G'Day Guys,
The National Kitesurfing Championships can only be "all round best kiter", as being good at only one style does not make you the best kiter in Oz, it makes you best at that particular discipline.
If you really reckon you rip and deserve the prestige of the title best kiter in Australia, then you need to prove it in all aspects.
I don't know if running it over two seperate events is a good or bad idea, personally I would like to see the wave event held in proper 3-6 foot waves where wave riding can truly be measured and the wake style should be conducted in a true flat water location so that riders of that discipline can ride to the best of their ability without being impeded by waves or nasty chop.
True pure waveriding in the pocket with airs over sections and barrels is equally difficult if not harder to perform as the most complex mobes or inverted handle passes.
We need to have ideal conditions for everyone, and I personally love the idea of sliders and rails for spicing up the variety of tricks and style.
Lets make this event the envy of all others, then if you win the waves and get snotted in the freestyle then you ain't the best and if you win the freestyle and get snotted in the waves you also aint the best, dominate both and you can hold your head high without fear of ridicule. You will be the best!
Just thoughts again! Keep this thread going, we need everyones interest and opinion, there will be no point in bitching about the result of the event if you never put your two cents worth in now.
D
WA
489 posts
I agree with Darren 100%, you must prove yourself in all disciplines to be crowned Oz's best kiter, how much harder that makes it to run who knows?
Shannon
--------------------------------
FIRE AWAY
WA
1807 posts
i agree that a double ellim is definately the way to go, but maybe have heats of six if there is alot of ppl involved. with 6-10 min rounds.
big hooter and flags for round changes, and have a "gap" of 4 mins between rounds, so youll need 3 sets of rashies at least
have an exclusions zone about 100 m either side of the judge only for competitors,and a marshall area up wind of that for the next round of competitors.,with a couple of bouys boarding the judge area, all compeditors have to go out past the bouys b4 coming back in,to create some space, have the bouys at least 1-200m off shore, go out under the dudes goming in.
i recon score to rank the dudes in their heat and top two get in regardless, loosers get in back door.
if it not at lanno,try get some advertising and pplto watch,so maYBE scarb would be good, otherwise i recon lanno, or woodies.
and get some proffesional judges, that judge all day long, and have lunch / food, ask for corporate sponsership if avail.... sunnies, or whatever for prizes...... thats my too cents
im in NSW newcastle, and i came over for windjam/mambo, i thought it should have been called a sociall ride ratherthen a comp,caus it definatley wasn't a comp, and without doubt the most dangerous event iveever been in, with like 20+ kiters in the same spot....
like trying to race your car in peak hour!
WA
78 posts
just want to say
But If the rotto classic is gonna happen let the prize be as a section of the nationals but not contribute to the overall score it doesn't prove whether or not your a good kiter just that if someone spending all there time racing through swells has a better chance then someone who can bust some sick moves and ride waves
**JUST FREESTYLE & WAVES**
Kiteboarding should be about going sick and riding waves. where not old windsurfers who race around all day, were kiteboarders we are ment to do wicked tricks.
Just want to know aswell if it's gonna have plenty of alchohol and is their gonna be a rule about geriatrics going out at the same time as all the good riders, they just get in the riders way
WA
2782 posts
G'Day Guys and Girls,
I think that the Rottnest should not be a part of the Aussie Nats because it means you have to be here for a minimum of two weekends. Some kiters may not have the time or money to stay for any longer than is necessary to run the nats.
The nationals is generally run on prequalification so there should be no "Geriatrics" as you put it sprouse, although some may consider my 36 years old enough to put me in this category too! :-(
But I do agree with just freestyle and waves. I also like a lot of dachoppers suggestions about the areas for marshalling and competing and the three rashie idea is a must.
Don't know about 6 people per heat, a bit too congested, it's generally bad enough with 4. Do agree with 8 minute heats, 6 isn't long enough and 10 is too long. I like the 4 minute downtime and the idea of professional judges. Perhaps even a panel of rotating judges or two judging panels to judge alternate heats to allow focus and refreshments.
I agree that "all-in" format could get dangerous in the national level where people are going to bust their best and latest trick right in front of the judges to ensure being seen, this would happen regardless of safety considerations. It can be bad enough in a 4 man heat where I have seen competitors take each other out and get dragged up the beach past the fleeing judges. Although it looks funny, it could have ended in disaster.
Keep the suggestions coming, were getting somewhere!
WA
272 posts
the nationals should be about obtaining a kiter that has skill in all area's.
I don't agree with a big air comp as counting toward the final score, however it might be a crowd pleaser if there is some spare time.
There should be a combo of both waves and flat water. but held at a separate time- it would be easier for the judges this way.
I agree with what darren has said in his previous threads too, more input we get the better.
later
Dale Stanton
WA
1119 posts
do *NOT* have a competitor in a back to back heat (unless your giving plenty of changeover time...)
i get the impression that this hasnt been the case in the past.
also agree that 6 kiters in a confined space throwing unexpected kite loops etc might be a little full on, let alone easy to judge
i also think a race event has its place, race+waves+freestyle (and id even say big air too btw)... but as kite hard raised, the rotto event being included might be a time/money problem for competitors?
WA
1807 posts
yeah 4 would be awesome, i was just thinking time constraints if we used 6 , maybe for first line of rounds
downwind..........bouy.........~100m...........bouy.....50m...marshall
4 exiting.................4 competitors..................4 marshalling
................bouys around 100m+ offshore..........................
.................................beach..............................
.......................flag.........................flag..............
spectators.................judges/tent/spectator............kitelaunch
and have it so that each competitor has to go out to the bouys EVERY time they turn around and go a fair bit downwind of the person behind so they should be able to a jump all the time, that way you could have at least 50metres + separation between all paople which should be plenty.
could maybe put the bouy further out 150 if req'd.
For the double ellimination, have it done so that top two in each of the first heats advance, and bottom two are placed in the first heat on the double side V two others that came 3rd and fourth.
then go to the second heat and top 2 advance again, ie
a
b
c
d....a1st-------------------c3rd
.....b2nd...b1st.wina.d1st..d4th
e....e1st...e2nd......h2nd..g3rd
f....f2nd-------------------h4th
g
h
FINCHwa
