How to lose your local.

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seafever17
seafever17
WA
360 posts
WA, 360 posts
6 Mar 2011 12:19pm
Random guys kiting a good beach
Non kiting public admire kiting
More people kiting a good beach
School sets up on beach
school teaches people the basics
students continue to learn / kite at same beach
local people feel threatened by kites crashing into beach from learners.
Complaints about learners
kite school owners supported by ex students
Non student original kiters seen as whingers
School owners and ex students become mouth of the beach
Local dog walkers /beach users mobilise and approach council.
Council must act
rules put in place
Visitors keep coming because it is a "name" beach
Original kiters encouraged to go elswhere("they are so lucky to have the visitors".
Local area thrashed , Rules broken, Negative articles in local press
Access reduced .
Kite area now more crowded as its smaller.
More accidents, more bad press
Pro banners gather evidence of increased accidents.
Council must act on behalf of ratepayers.
Kiting banned.

Shop owner, school owner,instructor,sponsor boy,I dont give a rats arse about your desire to have a job in the industry and work on the beach.You are part of the problem and you are trying to convince me you are the solution.No thanks.

I only care about my local spot.Access,rubbish,theft,****ting in the bushes,broken glass and litter.The vibe. The better things are for you(more bookings/lessons /sales/visitors) the worse they are for me.






kitesurfjim
kitesurfjim
VIC
136 posts
VIC, 136 posts
6 Mar 2011 3:33pm
Crikey you boys love spitting your dummies.

so i guess when you sell your kites on ebay or seabreeze you vet the buyer?

meet them on the beach and make sure they know how to set up and and perform the perfect backroll before taking their money?

Without schools bud you'll have ebay specials all over the place.

or i guess you'll deal with those guys by cutting lines and given the old f off your type aint welcome.

seafever17
seafever17
WA
360 posts
WA, 360 posts
6 Mar 2011 12:45pm
kitesurfjim said...

Crikey you boys love spitting your dummies.

so i guess when you sell your kites on ebay or seabreeze you vet the buyer?

meet them on the beach and make sure they know how to set up and and perform the perfect backroll before taking their money?

Without schools bud you'll have ebay specials all over the place.

or i guess you'll deal with those guys by cutting lines and given the old f off your type aint welcome.





Iv never sold a kite. Iv kept everyone.Same as boards.

I would rather have an occasional experienced kiter teaching a mate on the beach then school(s) each with 3 or 4 instructors pumping out students who continue to crash /learn for weeks at the same spot.
Everyone has to learn. We all did. But when you (over)commercialise learning and it ends up dominating the beach there are no winners but the schools and even that will be relatively short term. They will be victims of their own success.
seafever17
seafever17
WA
360 posts
WA, 360 posts
6 Mar 2011 12:56pm
I guess if your going to bother replying it would be good to know what side you are on.

disclosure.

Me. Never made a cent out of kiting. Just enjoy it.

Kitesurfjim: ***** Kiteboarding school head instructor

Your response is hardly surprising mate. Your part of the problem.
seafever17
seafever17
WA
360 posts
WA, 360 posts
6 Mar 2011 1:05pm
RPM said

I bet your from Mullaloo yeah?



nice work with profile button. Very insightful.

Disclosure please??
kitesurfjim
kitesurfjim
VIC
136 posts
VIC, 136 posts
6 Mar 2011 4:06pm
seafever17 said...

I guess if your going to bother replying it would be good to know what side you are on.

disclosure.

Me. Never made a cent out of kiting. Just enjoy it.

Kitesurfjim: Katani's Kiteboarding school head instructor

Your response is hardly surprising mate. Your part of the problem.


Dude my response is my opinion and not that of my employer so please keep their name out of this.

Dude there is a simple way to deal with these issues, form a club. make the area you want a members only, or by day pass.
you can control the numbers annually and daily.
it will cost you in the long run financially but is the only sure fire way to ensure the spots future.
If you have a local school / shop then allow them by permit to teach but just the one and have a limit on the number of instructors and students taught per day.

However mate the big issue comes down to when i first started teaching the courses were 12 hrs in length.
now you have schools saying we will teach you in 5 hrs and then let you off the leash.
THEY ARE YOUR PROBLEM

For the record for a host of reasons personal and ethical i work on a salary basis and have done for the last 2 years. the schools i have managed, run on a loss leading basis, (meaning no profit), yes we charge for courses but after kit and salaries there is nothing left in it. We run this way so we can sell the kit to those i feel are ready and safe.

Again DO NOT ASSOCIATE MY OPINIONS WITH MY EMPLOYER.
i always tell my students when to buy kit when i feel they are ready. DO NOT ASSOCIATE ME WITH THE CASH COWS IN THE INDUSTRY. Ask any of my students and they will vouch. average teaching time i say is 8 - 12 hours 8 being the very earliest i will think of selling a kite and that is a very rare occasion.


seafever17
seafever17
WA
360 posts
WA, 360 posts
6 Mar 2011 1:09pm
No problem, edit made. Apologies.
seafever17
seafever17
WA
360 posts
WA, 360 posts
6 Mar 2011 1:15pm
kitesurfjim said...

seafever17 said...

I guess if your going to bother replying it would be good to know what side you are on.

disclosure.

Me. Never made a cent out of kiting. Just enjoy it.

Kitesurfjim: ****** Kiteboarding school head instructor

Your response is hardly surprising mate. Your part of the problem.


Dude my response is my opinion and not that of **** so please keep my employers name out of this.

Dude there is a simple way to deal with these issues, form a club. make the area you want a members only, or by day pass.
you can control the numbers annually and daily.
it will cost you in the long run financially but is the only sure fire way to ensure the spots future.
If you have a local school / shop then allow the by permit to teach but just the one and have a limit on the number of instructors and students taught per day.

However mate the big issue comes down to when i first started teaching the courses were 12 hrs in length.
now you have schools saying we will teach you in 5 hrs and then let you off the leash.

THEY ARE YOUR PROBLEM.

Again DO NOT ASSOCIATE MY OPINIONS WITH *****.
i always tell my students when to buy kit when i feel they are ready. DO NOT ASSOCIATE ME WITH THE CASH COWS IN THE INDUSTRY. Ask any of my students and they will vouch. average teaching time i say is 8 - 12 hours 8 being the very earliest i will think of selling a kite and that is a very rare occasion.





Forming a club is not a simple way to deal with these issues. If you believe that you are nuts. Then what ? Fence the beach in? Man the guard towers?.
which beach in Australia is kitesurfing club access only??

As i said, invariably the local school becomes the local voice. They are not going to propose anything that hurts trade.
jas73
jas73
QLD
796 posts
QLD, 796 posts
6 Mar 2011 4:05pm
Clubs are hard work and do take alot of time to establish but how much time and effort is it worth to keep kiting properly managed and the beaches open. We are in the early stages of clubs over here, but with time the local authorities will be able to see the sport taking steps to regulate and do it's best to keep it safe. It's better for the council to be able to approach an official club regarding issues on a beach rather than just make decisions themselfs and shut beaches down. I know the shop that i deal with has only one instructor which one or two is fine, but when you see three or four so called instructors on the one beach pumping out false confidence then you have a problem and this needs to be addressed and regulated nation wide.Clubs are run by kiters, not shops so the clubs will do whats right for the sport.
kitesurfjim
kitesurfjim
VIC
136 posts
VIC, 136 posts
6 Mar 2011 5:08pm
seafever17 said...

kitesurfjim said...

seafever17 said...

I guess if your going to bother replying it would be good to know what side you are on.

disclosure.

Me. Never made a cent out of kiting. Just enjoy it.

Kitesurfjim: ****** Kiteboarding school head instructor

Your response is hardly surprising mate. Your part of the problem.


Dude my response is my opinion and not that of **** so please keep my employers name out of this.

Dude there is a simple way to deal with these issues, form a club. make the area you want a members only, or by day pass.
you can control the numbers annually and daily.
it will cost you in the long run financially but is the only sure fire way to ensure the spots future.
If you have a local school / shop then allow the by permit to teach but just the one and have a limit on the number of instructors and students taught per day.

However mate the big issue comes down to when i first started teaching the courses were 12 hrs in length.
now you have schools saying we will teach you in 5 hrs and then let you off the leash.

THEY ARE YOUR PROBLEM.

Again DO NOT ASSOCIATE MY OPINIONS WITH *****.
i always tell my students when to buy kit when i feel they are ready. DO NOT ASSOCIATE ME WITH THE CASH COWS IN THE INDUSTRY. Ask any of my students and they will vouch. average teaching time i say is 8 - 12 hours 8 being the very earliest i will think of selling a kite and that is a very rare occasion.





Forming a club is not a simple way to deal with these issues. If you believe that you are nuts. Then what ? Fence the beach in? Man the guard towers?.
which beach in Australia is kitesurfing club access only??

As i said, invariably the local school becomes the local voice. They are not going to propose anything that hurts trade.


Mate Thanks for the edit,
no harm done.

please re read my edit before questioning my ethics.
not saying you did!!!

I've been in the industry since 97 and only want to see the sport flourish for the right reasons.

As for Oz spots on a members only , i don't know mate i'm just a not so whinging POME.
But two examples of back home, Hayling Island (privately owned although with public access)
Portland Harbor (Government owned and regulated)
Both these have annual membership i believe Hayling has increased this year to 192 GBP around $500. and that is it.
Portland run Day passes at around 5 GBP $12. both have mandatory third party insurance.

And these are to mention a few.
we have clubs and associations all over and with the BKSA we work together schools AND Locals to keep our beaches safe and open for all to enjoy.


This is not me telling you how to do things but merely advising you of how things are done elsewhere to resolve / alleviate the same issue.
we get the influx of euros and City boys from London too.
mate some bankers turn up in their Porches with their shiny unused kite gear.
we simply deal with it how we can.

Blaming the schools for this is un just.
ok
ok
NSW
1089 posts
ok ok
NSW, 1089 posts
6 Mar 2011 5:34pm
so we should take up windsurfing and where nappies?
sebol
sebol
WA
753 posts
WA, 753 posts
7 Mar 2011 12:42pm
kitesurfjim said...

seafever17 said...

I guess if your going to bother replying it would be good to know what side you are on.

disclosure.

Me. Never made a cent out of kiting. Just enjoy it.

Kitesurfjim: Katani's Kiteboarding school head instructor

Your response is hardly surprising mate. Your part of the problem.


Dude my response is my opinion and not that of my employer so please keep their name out of this.

Dude there is a simple way to deal with these issues, form a club. make the area you want a members only, or by day pass.
you can control the numbers annually and daily.
it will cost you in the long run financially but is the only sure fire way to ensure the spots future.
If you have a local school / shop then allow them by permit to teach but just the one and have a limit on the number of instructors and students taught per day.

However mate the big issue comes down to when i first started teaching the courses were 12 hrs in length.
now you have schools saying we will teach you in 5 hrs and then let you off the leash.
THEY ARE YOUR PROBLEM

For the record for a host of reasons personal and ethical i work on a salary basis and have done for the last 2 years. the schools i have managed, run on a loss leading basis, (meaning no profit), yes we charge for courses but after kit and salaries there is nothing left in it. We run this way so we can sell the kit to those i feel are ready and safe.

Again DO NOT ASSOCIATE MY OPINIONS WITH MY EMPLOYER.
i always tell my students when to buy kit when i feel they are ready. DO NOT ASSOCIATE ME WITH THE CASH COWS IN THE INDUSTRY. Ask any of my students and they will vouch. average teaching time i say is 8 - 12 hours 8 being the very earliest i will think of selling a kite and that is a very rare occasion.






Hey kite surf Jim,
Is your name Corey??? (maybe Jim), do you have peroxide blond hair???
Sorry but i really strugle with the repetitive use of the word Dude

That is soooo lame, it is actually the sort of rubbish portrayed in the media about the surfing and related activities culture.

Not all surfers are dole bludgers with blonde hair who smoke pot and we certainly don't call each over dude. You might be a top bloke mate, nothing personal, i just have a bit of a gripe against stereotype


Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
7 Mar 2011 1:16pm
seafever17 said...

Non kiting public admire kiting


It starts with this perception - which may be incorrect.
kitesurfjim
kitesurfjim
VIC
136 posts
VIC, 136 posts
7 Mar 2011 4:33pm
sebol said...

kitesurfjim said...

seafever17 said...

I guess if your going to bother replying it would be good to know what side you are on.

disclosure.

Me. Never made a cent out of kiting. Just enjoy it.

Kitesurfjim: Katani's Kiteboarding school head instructor

Your response is hardly surprising mate. Your part of the problem.


Dude my response is my opinion and not that of my employer so please keep their name out of this.

Dude there is a simple way to deal with these issues, form a club. make the area you want a members only, or by day pass.
you can control the numbers annually and daily.
it will cost you in the long run financially but is the only sure fire way to ensure the spots future.
If you have a local school / shop then allow them by permit to teach but just the one and have a limit on the number of instructors and students taught per day.

However mate the big issue comes down to when i first started teaching the courses were 12 hrs in length.
now you have schools saying we will teach you in 5 hrs and then let you off the leash.
THEY ARE YOUR PROBLEM

For the record for a host of reasons personal and ethical i work on a salary basis and have done for the last 2 years. the schools i have managed, run on a loss leading basis, (meaning no profit), yes we charge for courses but after kit and salaries there is nothing left in it. We run this way so we can sell the kit to those i feel are ready and safe.

Again DO NOT ASSOCIATE MY OPINIONS WITH MY EMPLOYER.
i always tell my students when to buy kit when i feel they are ready. DO NOT ASSOCIATE ME WITH THE CASH COWS IN THE INDUSTRY. Ask any of my students and they will vouch. average teaching time i say is 8 - 12 hours 8 being the very earliest i will think of selling a kite and that is a very rare occasion.






Hey kite surf Jim,
Is your name Corey??? (maybe Jim), do you have peroxide blond hair???
Sorry but i really strugle with the repetitive use of the word Dude

That is soooo lame, it is actually the sort of rubbish portrayed in the media about the surfing and related activities culture.

Not all surfers are dole bludgers with blonde hair who smoke pot and we certainly don't call each over dude. You might be a top bloke mate, nothing personal, i just have a bit of a gripe against stereotype





No worries: Dude, mate, geezer, ****a, bud, Cobber.
Is that better sir more to your liking, no stereo type here Mr.
My hair isn't Peroxide Blonde no! it's natural, well its more mousy brown now but that'll be the age.

See ya laters haters
wishy
wishy
WA
1501 posts
WA, 1501 posts
7 Mar 2011 2:10pm
Or you could drive 40min up the coast and kite on a beautiful beach on your own...sounds like you need some decent CDs in your car and a job where you can afford petrol...or you could just keep whinging
ApatheticEnd
ApatheticEnd
WA
995 posts
WA, 995 posts
7 Mar 2011 2:38pm
wishy said...

Or you could drive 40min up the coast and kite on a beautiful beach on your own...sounds like you need some decent CDs in your car and a job where you can afford petrol...or you could just keep whinging


But then would you bitch about on the interwebs?
lotofwind
lotofwind
NSW
6451 posts
NSW, 6451 posts
7 Mar 2011 5:53pm


lostinlondon
lostinlondon
VIC
1159 posts
VIC, 1159 posts
7 Mar 2011 8:49pm
Ever noticed that most of the forum posts with issues about loss of access come from West Australia, the biggest state in the country with the lowest population density?

It's irony on a base level, but I like it...

Kitesurf Jim: Hayling Island was my "home" beach for 2 years, that was such a sweet spot... I used to be a member but wow how much have the fees increased? (I paid £60 a year 3 years ago). Imagine how WA would react if they had a beach with 120+ riders set up on it.

I like the Victorian approach to the problem. The beaches don't belong to the councils, they belong to Parks Victoria, and they have set up a cohesive plan that allocates different beaches to different users.

GRunner
GRunner
QLD
238 posts
QLD, 238 posts
7 Mar 2011 9:44pm
sebol said...


Hey kite surf Jim,
Is your name Corey??? (maybe Jim), do you have peroxide blond hair???
Sorry but i really strugle with the repetitive use of the word Dude

That is soooo lame, it is actually the sort of rubbish portrayed in the media about the surfing and related activities culture.

Not all surfers are dole bludgers with blonde hair who smoke pot and we certainly don't call each over dude. You might be a top bloke mate, nothing personal, i just have a bit of a gripe against stereotype


You alright mate? (and no I'm not trying to sound Aussie) I think you need to get out more often
LouD
LouD
WA
642 posts
WA, 642 posts
7 Mar 2011 8:05pm


Seafever

Has a new shool set up at Mullas? You cant be reffering to Rob Gannons school as he IS one of the original Mullalloo crew and has had his school there for years. Are you talking about Pinnas? Be good if you could clear things up for us, otherwise your post doesnt seem have much point.
seafever17
seafever17
WA
360 posts
WA, 360 posts
8 Mar 2011 3:26pm
LouD said...



Seafever

Has a new shool set up at Mullas? You cant be reffering to Rob Gannons school as he IS one of the original Mullalloo crew and has had his school there for years. Are you talking about Pinnas? Be good if you could clear things up for us, otherwise your post doesnt seem have much point.


No new school at Mullas.
My post wasnt about Robs school(I think he does all he can to keep thing under control).

I think any beach(in any metro area) that has a school on it is going to end up with restrictions or bans.The ex students will continue to learn at that spot and only when they have progressed quite a way will they try somewhere else.I was the same. If the school has 2 instructors and they do 4 hrs a day,6 days a week thats 48 teaching hrs a week, If a student got 10 hrs tuition thats 5 new kiters a week.Every week. Most likely continuing to learn/crash at the same beach until profficient.
Thats a lot of pressure on one strip of beach. Its not the schools fault. Its no ones fault. But eventually bans will result.
Then we all lose.
Personally I would like to see one area given over to schools and learning and that would be Pinnaroo point and the 200 meters north.
Then ex students could continue to learn here where its quite (less general public)and when profficient ride elsewhere.Less impact on public.Less likely to get banned or restricted.





Little Jon
Little Jon
NSW
2115 posts
NSW, 2115 posts
8 Mar 2011 11:08pm
GRunner said...

sebol said...


Hey kite surf Jim,
Is your name Corey??? (maybe Jim), do you have peroxide blond hair???
Sorry but i really strugle with the repetitive use of the word Dude

That is soooo lame, it is actually the sort of rubbish portrayed in the media about the surfing and related activities culture.

Not all surfers are dole bludgers with blonde hair who smoke pot and we certainly don't call each over dude. You might be a top bloke mate, nothing personal, i just have a bit of a gripe against stereotype


You alright mate? (and no I'm not trying to sound Aussie) I think you need to get out more often


Yeah,

When I hear dude I think of
1. The song "don't call me dude";
2. The movie "The Big Lebowski"

default
default
WA
1255 posts
WA, 1255 posts
9 Mar 2011 11:26am
GRunner said...


You alright mate? (and no I'm not trying to sound Aussie)


I know your not trying to sound aussie as thats a typical greeting in the UK, perhaps minus the "mate" part.

Used to confuse me at first...always thought something was wrong with me lol.

default
default
WA
1255 posts
WA, 1255 posts
9 Mar 2011 11:28am
Little Jon said...

GRunner said...

sebol said...


Hey kite surf Jim,
Is your name Corey??? (maybe Jim), do you have peroxide blond hair???
Sorry but i really strugle with the repetitive use of the word Dude

That is soooo lame, it is actually the sort of rubbish portrayed in the media about the surfing and related activities culture.

Not all surfers are dole bludgers with blonde hair who smoke pot and we certainly don't call each over dude. You might be a top bloke mate, nothing personal, i just have a bit of a gripe against stereotype


You alright mate? (and no I'm not trying to sound Aussie) I think you need to get out more often


Yeah,

When I hear dude I think of
1. The song "don't call me dude";
2. The movie "The Big Lebowski"




3. Dude, Where's My Car?

Little Jon
Little Jon
NSW
2115 posts
NSW, 2115 posts
9 Mar 2011 8:55pm
default said...

Little Jon said...

GRunner said...

sebol said...


Hey kite surf Jim,
Is your name Corey??? (maybe Jim), do you have peroxide blond hair???
Sorry but i really strugle with the repetitive use of the word Dude

That is soooo lame, it is actually the sort of rubbish portrayed in the media about the surfing and related activities culture.

Not all surfers are dole bludgers with blonde hair who smoke pot and we certainly don't call each over dude. You might be a top bloke mate, nothing personal, i just have a bit of a gripe against stereotype


You alright mate? (and no I'm not trying to sound Aussie) I think you need to get out more often


Yeah,

When I hear dude I think of
1. The song "don't call me dude";
2. The movie "The Big Lebowski"




3. Dude, Where's My Car?



LOL,
Dude, you got the wrong Lebowski
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