As seen recently on Kiteforum.com ^^^
This pic of a chunk of raw meat (inside of arm just below elbow) shows the result of getting caught by your death-leash.

The whole thread is here.
kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2362771

The riders description of what happened is below. It was not the metal hook/clip that did the damage, and it was a very technical trick done with a lot power and of course risk.
Waveslave is just posting it to troll/justify his own leashless riding.
Hope it all heals up well for the kiter involved.


went for a blind judge on suicide leash and got material part of leash with bungy inside it grab my arm and make it into steak, (it was not the metal hook or anything- amazing hey?! ).

Blood started shooting out about 1/2m just after doing it so it was "oh **** i got an artery stick your finger in it quick (as my friend was running away in the opposite direction white faced )". Anyway it all calmed down and got stitched back together with minimal fuss at the local surgery - lovely job! It is the inside of my arm just below the elbow.

Going to get a foam covered or neoprene one to use in future.

Cheers,

Ian
www.dvntkiteboarding.com

without a leash? how many ppl ride without a leash? what do u do when u get unhooked? swim after your kite? aren't kites a little expensive to be ridin without leashes????

maybe u could direct me to the last one, i obviously missed it....

What happends if you snap a chicken loop?

Or your saftey accidently releases,

Have only had each happen once in 4 years,but it does happen.

^YOU'RE screwed if you need to release in a hurry then

Kitehard said...

Hi 'slave,

I suppose you drive your car without wearing a "Death Belt" too. If so, I suggest you shouldn't, I've seen pics of nasty injuries created by wearing "death belts" in certain accidents

KH

^^thats why: the drummer from def leopard only has one arm

waveslave said...

These things don't happen to my gear. ^^^
I make my own chicken-loops.
They are heavy-duty and the release is fool-proof.

Pictures and descriptions please. I unhook (pathetically at this stage) so I will continue to use a leash regardless, but I'm curious about custom gear and potential innovations.

It's easy to label slave as a dogmatist (which most of the time he seems to be) but occasionally he has some interesting points that cause me to rethink what I'm doing. Whether or not I end up abandoning my previous opinion in favour of his is another matter.

djdojo said...

waveslave said...

These things don't happen to my gear. ^^^
I make my own chicken-loops.
They are heavy-duty and the release is fool-proof.

Pictures and descriptions please. I unhook (pathetically at this stage) so I will continue to use a leash regardless, but I'm curious about custom gear and potential innovations.

It's easy to label slave as a dogmatist (which most of the time he seems to be) but occasionally he has some interesting points that cause me to rethink what I'm doing. Whether or not I end up abandoning my previous opinion in favour of his is another matter.

...well, kitesurfing is all about innovation, it was even more so at the beginning, when danger was more apparent....I don't see any innovative in not using a safety leash, but let's assume there is....
....what most people are reacting to is to be "innovative" on the expense of others' safety.....or what Waveslave's innovation means: "risking others to save my own bum"....we all know what a stray kite with lines and bar attached can do to a bystander, or anyone downwind....and it can be your child, girlfriend, mother...etc.

On the other hand, without Waveslave we would not write these things here (and those of you hiding under the bed would not have a reason to rush out for a sec to click on the red thumb )
He is provocative....he is meant to be...but without him this forum would be far more boring....
....So, Waveslave, just keep stirring!...I rarely agree with you, but it's not the point......what's the point...?....you decide...

The whole leash issue is an important one. Too often a line can get snagged around a buckle, a hook, bar, some bit of your harness and that's when releasing doesn't work. I don't know if people have noticed but older kites used to pivot on there wing tips. Modern kites turn much faster because they pivot from the centre.

So what, you say.

If a modern kite goes into a spiral after a snag it will loop and loop, dragging the rider powered downwind with no control of the bar or kite. Releasing often doesn't work. Older kites that turned on there tips were more likely to crash quickly and less prone to spiralling.

Now, I'm not advocating going back to old kites, just be aware of this potential problem. We need innovators to design better release systems that allow you to get away from a kite that has snagged your harness or harnesses with cleaner edges that minimise the risk of snagging. Maybe a quick way out of your harness?

Speaking to a mate down the beach the other day - he told me a story of a recent kitemare. A line snagged his harness after a crash, causing the kite to spiral out of control. He was in the surf and being dragged toward the shore unable release from the kite after pulling the chicken loop safety. He managed to loosen his harness buckles and wriggle out of the harness before the kite hit the shore. Luckily, a kiter on the beach jumped on the loose kite.

I can believe this happening. I've had lines caught around my harness more than once, preventing me from relaunching a downed kite.

As far as I'm concerned this is not good enough. Manufacturers have a responsibility to make this gear bullet proof and minimise the possibility of snagged lines. Just putting "kiteboarding can be dangerous" disclaimers on the kite does not absolve responsibility.

Hey, red-thumbers, I thought I was clear in my intention to continue using a leash. Are some people offended by any response to slave that doesn't completely write him off as a nutter with nothing to contribute.

I disagree with many of the technical and ethical aspects of his anti-leash evangelism, but if slave has made a good chicken-loop and release mechanism I'd like to see them is all. Surely we can look at his equipment without necessarily endorsing the way he uses it?

Waveslave, could you show us some pics of your custom gear and explain the mechanisms?

As Kit33r said, there are times when conventional releases don't work. We have some creative and skilled craftspeople on this forum, so let's see what ideas (and prototypes) we can put on the table.

djdojo said...
Waveslave, could you show us some pics of your custom gear and explain the mechanisms?

+1

waveslave said...




I was thinking that maybe a long sleeve wetsuit could have prevented the injury.
But how can you protect your neck area from death-leash mutilation ?

the same way you protect your neck from your lines!!! Experience !!
No matter what spin you put on it wearing a leash is safer than not

most good kites have a safety release on the leash

you activate the leash safety and problem solved, (assuming you have already activated the chicken loop safety). If the kite lines are wrapped around you that's a problem with or without a leash.

if you got photographers waiting on jetskis in the channel of a surf break, just unhook and let it all go, but for the rest of us, I would like to keep my kite on a leash until any serious problems occur, then release the whole rig and say bye bye

KIT33R said...

The whole leash issue is an important one. Too often a line can get snagged around a buckle, a hook, bar, some bit of your harness and that's when releasing doesn't work. I don't know if people have noticed but older kites used to pivot on there wing tips. Modern kites turn much faster because they pivot from the centre.

So what, you say.

If a modern kite goes into a spiral after a snag it will loop and loop, dragging the rider powered downwind with no control of the bar or kite. Releasing often doesn't work. Older kites that turned on there tips were more likely to crash quickly and less prone to spiralling.

Now, I'm not advocating going back to old kites, just be aware of this potential problem. We need innovators to design better release systems that allow you to get away from a kite that has snagged your harness or harnesses with cleaner edges that minimise the risk of snagging. Maybe a quick way out of your harness?

Speaking to a mate down the beach the other day - he told me a story of a recent kitemare. A line snagged his harness after a crash, causing the kite to spiral out of control. He was in the surf and being dragged toward the shore unable release from the kite after pulling the chicken loop safety. He managed to loosen his harness buckles and wriggle out of the harness before the kite hit the shore. Luckily, a kiter on the beach jumped on the loose kite.

I can believe this happening. I've had lines caught around my harness more than once, preventing me from relaunching a downed kite.

As far as I'm concerned this is not good enough. Manufacturers have a responsibility to make this gear bullet proof and minimise the possibility of snagged lines. Just putting "kiteboarding can be dangerous" disclaimers on the kite does not absolve responsibility.

Happened to me in the surf about two months ago... lost kite and started looping dragging me into shore... tried quick release and nothing was happening... thats when i noticed one of the steering lines wrapped around my harness hook... really scared the ****e out of me!

kitegirl21 said...

KIT33R said...

The whole leash issue is an important one. Too often a line can get snagged around a buckle, a hook, bar, some bit of your harness and that's when releasing doesn't work. I don't know if people have noticed but older kites used to pivot on there wing tips. Modern kites turn much faster because they pivot from the centre.

So what, you say.

If a modern kite goes into a spiral after a snag it will loop and loop, dragging the rider powered downwind with no control of the bar or kite. Releasing often doesn't work. Older kites that turned on there tips were more likely to crash quickly and less prone to spiralling.

Now, I'm not advocating going back to old kites, just be aware of this potential problem. We need innovators to design better release systems that allow you to get away from a kite that has snagged your harness or harnesses with cleaner edges that minimise the risk of snagging. Maybe a quick way out of your harness?

Speaking to a mate down the beach the other day - he told me a story of a recent kitemare. A line snagged his harness after a crash, causing the kite to spiral out of control. He was in the surf and being dragged toward the shore unable release from the kite after pulling the chicken loop safety. He managed to loosen his harness buckles and wriggle out of the harness before the kite hit the shore. Luckily, a kiter on the beach jumped on the loose kite.

I can believe this happening. I've had lines caught around my harness more than once, preventing me from relaunching a downed kite.

As far as I'm concerned this is not good enough. Manufacturers have a responsibility to make this gear bullet proof and minimise the possibility of snagged lines. Just putting "kiteboarding can be dangerous" disclaimers on the kite does not absolve responsibility.

Happened to me in the surf about two months ago... lost kite and started looping dragging me into shore... tried quick release and nothing was happening... thats when i noticed one of the steering lines wrapped around my harness hook... really scared the ****e out of me!

^^^ Maybe what we need is a harness with a quick release so we can jetisson the whole lot when such a tangle happens ??