Kite Safe Association roll out

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kiwimike
kiwimike
QLD
37 posts
QLD, 37 posts
14 Dec 2011 1:13pm
i have been working on the kite safe association for some time now and i am getting to the finishing stages. the KSA will give support to schools around asia and i hope will be affiliated with other reputable organisations around the world. here are some of my ideas so far and i am looking for some feedback and suggestions. i am looking for constructive criticism. this is alot of work and i am doing it for the sake of kiteboarding which has give alot to me. see the information and let me know if anyone has thoughts or suggestions.





KSA will be a non profit organisation with public accounting
schools will volunteer to join at no cost and just need to display the KSA logo and follow the minimum safety requirements.

schools will be encouraged to take insurance which we will assist with implimenting. note some in some countries it is very difficult to get cover so insurance will not be compulsory.

i will be the area rep for asia and there will be sub reps locally within the regions. i will be partnered with other organisations such as the AKSA who are doing a great job in australia.
proposed areas will be as follows
AFRICA
AMERICA (NORTH)
AMERICA (CENTRAL)
AMERICA (SOUTH)
ASIA
AUSTRALIA
EUROPE (MAINLAND)
UNITED KINGDOM
MIDDLE EAST
RUSSIA



JOINING THE KSA
schools will be issued an individual school KSA number once they are displaying the the KSA logo as seen on www.bluelagoonpattaya.com website. once you have joined you will be able to issue learner and rider cards to your students. your school will be listed on the KSA website.

SPONSORSHIP
we are currently approaching some major kite companies for sponsorship. it is my hope that the sponsorship will cover the cost of the KSA flags the each school can get free of charge at the start of every season along with tshirts and if possible teaching aids and material. if sponship can not be found then these goods will be able to be purchased at cost price. at this stage my kiteboard company magnumboards.com is covering the cost of starting this organisation.

CERTIFING RIDERS AND INSTRUCTORS
registered schools and instructors will be able to issue learner and competent rider cards. the schools can print out their own cards from an emailed file they receive when they get their school number. cards can be purchased if required. once the students have completed their learner levels they can apply for a 'competant riders card' this will be a plastic licence which can be used to verify riding ability to ride on controlled beaches. this card may also be presented at KSA schools for discounts on goods or advanced lessons.

learner levels will be as follows
1A knowledge of wind theory, site safety evaluation. piloting trainer kite.
1B basic piloting of a 4 line depowerable kite and competant self rescue ability
1C down wind body dragging
1D upwind body dragging, water relaunch, launching landing with assistant. power stroke.
1E standing on the board and coming to a safe and controlled
1D standing on the board both directions

safe rider card
level 2. rider can ride upwind and competently kite unsupervised. once the students have completed their learner levels they can apply for a 'competant riders card' this will be a plastic licence which can be used to verify riding ability to ride on controlled beaches. this card may also be presented at KSA schools for discounts on goods or advanced lessons.

instructors card
level 3
instructor training courses will be run in asia and will be expanded to other regions around the world. KSA will recognise VWDS, IKO and other teaching qualifications. the KSA instructor qualification instructor qualification will be issued free of charge for existing instructors certified from reputable organisations and you will be listed as an active (currently employed) or inactive (not currently teaching) instructor along with all your teaching qualifications.


INTHELOOP
INTHELOOP
QLD
1855 posts
QLD, 1855 posts
14 Dec 2011 1:24pm
there is already a KSA- KITE SURF AUSTRALIA!!

might wanna check with them first before re name, they have been around for a while too.
brooksy
brooksy
WA
498 posts
WA, 498 posts
14 Dec 2011 2:34pm
Isn't this pretty similar to IKO? What are you looking to achieve that's unique or different from IKO?
junglist
junglist
VIC
701 posts
VIC, 701 posts
14 Dec 2011 7:46pm
If you can get personal accident insurance as a part of the membership then I am in.

BKSA can do it.

If, like KSA, you cannot get personal accident insurance then I am out.

Cheers.
Captash
Captash
NSW
29 posts
NSW, 29 posts
14 Dec 2011 10:11pm
Mike,

I think the idea is a good one.

I'm only one year into kiting but already very concerned for the future of our sport and very motivated to assist in bringing in some self-regulation to help lift our safety image (as well as ACTUALLY improve safety;-)).

The only way we can stay one step ahead of local governments under pressure to ban Kiteboarding from their beaches and lakes etc is to be proactive in introducing standards such as the ones you propose.

Obviously the process is important to get right, and it will be easy for people to be critical in the early stages, but don't let that deter you.

Open discussions are great and give everyone the chance to feel involved in the process.

The sooner this initiative is implemented the better. I have the luxury of literally being the only person at my local beach when kiteboarding, but when I move to Newcastle in the New Year it will be very different and I want to protect the priveleges we have of using almost any beach where the wind blows!

Keep up the good work mate.
ScarbsSUP
ScarbsSUP
WA
354 posts
WA, 354 posts
14 Dec 2011 10:25pm
Hi Mike,

The idea is good but has been done before .... by IKO and copied by BKSA etc. I understand the KSA is about not having fees and is all voluntary and such but the biggest problem with IKO, is the same one you will be faced with, and that's quality control. Who is going to check in on the school wearing your badge and say yes it meets certain standards, or no it doesn't meet those standards.

By simply putting a logo on your website, doesn't make you a quality school. A quality school in Asia, I think, will be a different setup to a quality school in Australia. We have laws and rules, and standards which need to be met. Basic teaching standards can be the same, school standards may differ on the account that you don't necessarily need insurance or may find it impossible to attain in Asia.

Insurance is not the major drama here in Oz, in fact, it's reasonably easy to attain (well sort of) for most schools. What many schools don't get, is that the insurance is useless if you teach without a permit or trade illegally in public.

AKSA or state associations have more power to address this than they think but feel their charter is to protect access to beaches and look after the best interests of the members. Keeping higher standards in schools and teaching in general will help more than anything else with beach access and the general guidance of the sport.

I know what you have been doing has been hard and thankless and I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but if you are going to do something different, make it better. The thing that will make this better than IKO system is to make the standard high, and police the standard. You need a way to ensure the shools/instructors/trainers are keeping the standard high and that newcomers adhere to the standard.

As a school owner, I don't mind paying affiliation fees, if it means that there is value or differentiation between quality and non quality. If non quality schools see being a part of the association as being a good thing, then they will want to join, find a way to make sure they continue to offer quality after they join, then you have a system far better than IKO. Just a little food for thought.

I'm happy to help with what minimal amount of time I actually have.

Best of luck,

DM
kiwimike
kiwimike
QLD
37 posts
QLD, 37 posts
15 Dec 2011 2:20am
seems there are alot of organisations using the letters KSA. infact i think pretty much every 3 letter abbreviation is taken, even XXX. hope the kite surf australia will affiliate with my organisation.

INTHELOOP said...

there is already a KSA- KITE SURF AUSTRALIA!!

might wanna check with them first before re name, they have been around for a while too.


kiwimike
kiwimike
QLD
37 posts
QLD, 37 posts
15 Dec 2011 2:22am
in one year you will understand the difference.

brooksy said...

Isn't this pretty similar to IKO? What are you looking to achieve that's unique or different from IKO?


kiwimike
kiwimike
QLD
37 posts
QLD, 37 posts
15 Dec 2011 2:23am
thanks for the positive feedback. i am hopingto partner up with the AKSA. the VDWS and BKSA are already onboard.
Captash said...

Mike,

I think the idea is a good one.

I'm only one year into kiting but already very concerned for the future of our sport and very motivated to assist in bringing in some self-regulation to help lift our safety image (as well as ACTUALLY improve safety;-)).

The only way we can stay one step ahead of local governments under pressure to ban Kiteboarding from their beaches and lakes etc is to be proactive in introducing standards such as the ones you propose.

Obviously the process is important to get right, and it will be easy for people to be critical in the early stages, but don't let that deter you.

Open discussions are great and give everyone the chance to feel involved in the process.

The sooner this initiative is implemented the better. I have the luxury of literally being the only person at my local beach when kiteboarding, but when I move to Newcastle in the New Year it will be very different and I want to protect the priveleges we have of using almost any beach where the wind blows!

Keep up the good work mate.


kiwimike
kiwimike
QLD
37 posts
QLD, 37 posts
15 Dec 2011 2:32am
darren,
i really hope i can provide this service free of charge to schools and riders using sponsorship. local quality control is the hardest thing it is true but with the help of the VDWS, AKSA and BKSA this will be alot easier. the VDWS and BKSA are already onboard and i am just waiting for a response from the AKSA. would be good if you could put in a good word.
putting a logo on the school does not make a good school but the school will need to be good to keep the logo. in the future i believe students will go to KSA branded schools in the future and hopefully schools will adhere to minimumstandards just to keep the logo on the site.

is great to have your support down under.

mike

p.s. do you remember me from the ITC you ran in surfers paradise in 2006?

ScarbsSUP said...

Hi Mike,

The idea is good but has been done before .... by IKO and copied by BKSA etc. I understand the KSA is about not having fees and is all voluntary and such but the biggest problem with IKO, is the same one you will be faced with, and that's quality control. Who is going to check in on the school wearing your badge and say yes it meets certain standards, or no it doesn't meet those standards.

By simply putting a logo on your website, doesn't make you a quality school. A quality school in Asia, I think, will be a different setup to a quality school in Australia. We have laws and rules, and standards which need to be met. Basic teaching standards can be the same, school standards may differ on the account that you don't necessarily need insurance or may find it impossible to attain in Asia.

Insurance is not the major drama here in Oz, in fact, it's reasonably easy to attain (well sort of) for most schools. What many schools don't get, is that the insurance is useless if you teach without a permit or trade illegally in public.

AKSA or state associations have more power to address this than they think but feel their charter is to protect access to beaches and look after the best interests of the members. Keeping higher standards in schools and teaching in general will help more than anything else with beach access and the general guidance of the sport.

I know what you have been doing has been hard and thankless and I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but if you are going to do something different, make it better. The thing that will make this better than IKO system is to make the standard high, and police the standard. You need a way to ensure the shools/instructors/trainers are keeping the standard high and that newcomers adhere to the standard.

As a school owner, I don't mind paying affiliation fees, if it means that there is value or differentiation between quality and non quality. If non quality schools see being a part of the association as being a good thing, then they will want to join, find a way to make sure they continue to offer quality after they join, then you have a system far better than IKO. Just a little food for thought.

I'm happy to help with what minimal amount of time I actually have.

Best of luck,

DM


BennyB12
BennyB12
QLD
918 posts
QLD, 918 posts
15 Dec 2011 7:40am
Why do you want to take a perfectly free and enjoyable sport and destroy it with more governmental organizations and rules and licences and crap that wil do nothing but take up your valuable time that could be spent on the water? Your overthinking one of lifes true pleasures and unwillingly making it less pleasant. Kite surfing is not a safe sport and making another governing bodywill not change that. Non profit? Sure till the expenses add up. All governments start the same way. If you love the sport, then leave it be and go kiting. Set a good example on the water and a better one on the beach. Start a club if youve got that much time, kite a session then have a barbie rather than bother yourself with the details. Aksa, iko, waksa,crapsa bolocks, everyone bitches about em and for good reason. They started with good intentions then got caught up in themselves and now the hate is on. Licenses, rules, levels, insurance crapola, sounds a bit like real life to me. Isnt kiting meant to be an escape from that shart?
deXtrous
deXtrous
NSW
451 posts
NSW, 451 posts
15 Dec 2011 10:36am
Why don't you change it to SKA.... Safe Kiting Association?

The problem with KSA is that if anyone's going to search the term or look you guys up somehow, they'll be redirected to Kite Surfing Australia which is obviously the bigger organisation.

That being said, I don't know what the hell you're trying to do? We need something outside a conventional approach to improve safety standards in kitesurfing.. I'm all for a licencing system if it's going to mean saving our beaches from being banned all together.

BennyB12
BennyB12
QLD
918 posts
QLD, 918 posts
15 Dec 2011 3:51pm
It wont. Only good attitudes and loads of common sense will stop bans. Lucky we have loadsof coastline eh?
Smithy
Smithy
VIC
859 posts
VIC, 859 posts
17 Dec 2011 12:44pm
Mmmmmm
Putting aside the school side for a minute, how is a licensing system going to work for all the thousands of kiters who have been kiting for years?
Coose
Coose
VIC
229 posts
VIC, 229 posts
17 Dec 2011 3:17pm
it wont, screw this system, just pass someone a kite and tell them to hold on, lofting is half the fun! 100 points to the first person who hits the power lines!
ScarbsSUP
ScarbsSUP
WA
354 posts
WA, 354 posts
17 Dec 2011 2:00pm
BennyB12 said...

Why do you want to take a perfectly free and enjoyable sport and destroy it with more governmental organizations and rules and licences and crap that wil do nothing but take up your valuable time that could be spent on the water? Your overthinking one of lifes true pleasures and unwillingly making it less pleasant. Kite surfing is not a safe sport and making another governing bodywill not change that. Non profit? Sure till the expenses add up. All governments start the same way. If you love the sport, then leave it be and go kiting. Set a good example on the water and a better one on the beach. Start a club if youve got that much time, kite a session then have a barbie rather than bother yourself with the details. Aksa, iko, waksa,crapsa bolocks, everyone bitches about em and for good reason. They started with good intentions then got caught up in themselves and now the hate is on. Licenses, rules, levels, insurance crapola, sounds a bit like real life to me. Isnt kiting meant to be an escape from that shart?



Hi Benny,

You're right, no one wants licensing and control over the sport, but the problem we have is there are too many selfish tools in our sport that have absolutely no regard for other people, other kiters, other ocean users and enjoy flicking the finger at authority, although this may feel good at the time, it will not help. "The Man" wins in the end ...... always, coz he wields all the power.

It is these people who are forcing this to happen. We've all been affected by bans and restrictions in nearly every major kiting destination, this is not from the people who kite respectfully and appreciate the sport and environment we kite in, it's the funk you crew who are the problem, and unfortunately, they will ruin it for everyone unless something is done about it.

Kiters need to learn to co-exist with the rest of the world. Unless some form of control is implemented, I foresee major kiting bans on most metro beaches. Perth's beaches are a ticking time bomb, it won't be long I reckon. Safety Bay? Scarborough? Melville? Mullaloo? All on borrowed time.

Too many Kiters impose themselves on the beach environment and public with a ego driven, hedonistic attitude instead of blending in harmoniously.

We all need to be working pro-actively to keep access to our favourite spots, however, I think the a$$holes will bring us undone in the long run.

Sorry for the pessimistic (see realistic) view.

DM

hilly
hilly
WA
8131 posts
WA, 8131 posts
17 Dec 2011 3:21pm
ScarbsSUP said...
I foresee major kiting bans on most metro beaches. Perth's beaches are a ticking time bomb, it won't be long I reckon. Safety Bay? Scarborough? Melville? Mullaloo? All on borrowed time.

Too many Kiters impose themselves on the beach environment and public with a ego driven, hedonistic attitude instead of blending in harmoniously.

We all need to be working pro-actively to keep access to our favourite spots, however, I think the a$$holes will bring us undone in the long run.


Right on the money there Darren. Have done a couple of dw's on my kite recently what a sh1tfight people everywhere especially around Brighton.

2 incidents standout in the last 2 days - a downed kite going through a group of swimmers a dog beach and the guy launching a Trigg Point(why would you???) yesterday who was so lucky his death looping kite self destructed on the island rocks and did not take out the mums and kids swimming in the lee of the island, or smash him on to the rocks. He was seconds from death.

Only a mater of time.
dave......
dave......
WA
2119 posts
WA, 2119 posts
17 Dec 2011 3:28pm
Being an ex-teacher who was on probation for 2 years with constant mentoring, I like standards. Competency based. I think your idea is great, and your alturistic attitude towards the fee thing is great.

Having kite police or mentors in this sport is not practible to keep up standards. Can I offer a suggestion. A complaints e-mail to keep your KSA or SKA, whatever name you choose should be set up. This means we can regulate ourselves without all the red tape.

If an experienced kitesurfer/instructor sees corners being cut they can easily get the name of the school and instructor and give feedback to the issue. Conversely if a student has not been taught the basic safety fundamentals and finds out later, feedback to you on the School and instructor can be given. Written warnings can then be sent and dodgy operators/instructors will be held accountable, and eventually lose their accreditation.

I have seen some stoopid things in my time at melville, safety bay, and woodies. when someone is dangerous and will not listen, we as responsible citizens can call the rangers or the police, when kites are on land, and through negligence as a danger to public safety they have to act. I have both the local rangers/security, and police numbers on speed dial on my mobile phone, as well as St john Ambulance.

Standards have to improve to save the industry, access to beaches, and our passion for the sport.
kitethrills
kitethrills
QLD
185 posts
QLD, 185 posts
23 Dec 2011 11:07pm
Yeah its a good idea. I'll back it up. bit busy right now to get too involved but i will support it.

keep moving.
saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2575 posts
NSW, 2575 posts
24 Dec 2011 12:32am
ethics and how to interact with other water users for newbies (and arrogant wallys) would be good.
Captash
Captash
NSW
29 posts
NSW, 29 posts
24 Dec 2011 10:18am
ScarbsSUP said...


Kiters need to learn to co-exist with the rest of the world. Unless some form of control is implemented, I foresee major kiting bans on most metro beaches.


Spot on DM, and threads like this are essential to address the ignorance that is out there. Burying our heads in the sand is the fastest way to see our favourite spots banned.

The smart thing to do is make sure we have a loud and unified voice in the discussions when more regulation comes. We get that kind of credibility by going above-and-beyond what is currently expected to impose a regime of self-regulation.

There has been a good point made about checking compliance. In a voluntary system, no funds exist to support an audit system which will be essential to protect the integrity of the standard.

To everyone who wants to ignore all this or who doesn't see the need...don't get in the way of those working on your behalf to protect the future of kiteboarding.

We either get our ducks in a row, or 'the man' steps in and does it for us. If they do it for us, it will NOT be the outcome we were hoping for.

Thanks for being willing to assist DM. Guys with your standing are essential to the success of the initiatives.
Peterc150
Peterc150
VIC
710 posts
VIC, 710 posts
24 Dec 2011 12:12pm
I have recently researched and combined a lot of safety information, including rules, regulations, etiquette, good practices (e.g. self rescue), safety equipment and checks, hand signals etc here: kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/safety

I support an emphasis on increased safety and communication with new riders. We are at the cusp of exploding numbers of kiters. But its not clear to me how the proposed KSA will work with existing groups such as AKSA, IKO, BKSA etc, all of which have an emphasis on safety too.

If KSA does something new, that would be good. If it duplicates existing organisations then it will only complicate matters.

We need simple and consistent messages about safety, spread far and wide.

A "code of practice" for all kitesurfers to sign on to would be a good thing.
kiwimike
kiwimike
QLD
37 posts
QLD, 37 posts
26 Dec 2011 8:22pm
hi peter,
the KSA is an association to support current organisations and provide some standardisation along with riders cards and instructor training. i would like to incorporate some of your work into our safety standards. would that be possible? PM me if you are interest. some good info on your site. thanks,

mike

Peterc150 said...

I have recently researched and combined a lot of safety information, including rules, regulations, etiquette, good practices (e.g. self rescue), safety equipment and checks, hand signals etc here: kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/safety

I support an emphasis on increased safety and communication with new riders. We are at the cusp of exploding numbers of kiters. But its not clear to me how the proposed KSA will work with existing groups such as AKSA, IKO, BKSA etc, all of which have an emphasis on safety too.

If KSA does something new, that would be good. If it duplicates existing organisations then it will only complicate matters.

We need simple and consistent messages about safety, spread far and wide.

A "code of practice" for all kitesurfers to sign on to would be a good thing.


kiwimike
kiwimike
QLD
37 posts
QLD, 37 posts
26 Dec 2011 8:24pm
pretty straight foward. go to an affiliated school. get your ability assesed and email in some infor to get a level 2 riders card with your photo on it.

Coose said...

it wont, screw this system, just pass someone a kite and tell them to hold on, lofting is half the fun! 100 points to the first person who hits the power lines!


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