Forums > Kitesurfing General

Max upwind angle

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Created by kiteflo > 9 months ago, 21 Apr 2016
kiteflo
132 posts
21 Apr 2016 8:07AM
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whats the max upwind angle for kitesurfers?
obviously depends on many factors like board, wind, kite, skill, current etc.

how do we compare to windsurfers and sailboats?

whats the best way of measuring angles? I've got a drybag for my phone so can use gps (ios) apps.


bigtone667
NSW, 921 posts
21 Apr 2016 12:26PM
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I use a GPS watch when I am kiting and it maps the data to the Garmin Website.

In the attached image, I spent the first 30 minutes on a twin tip and the next 15 minutes on a foil.
A reasonable example of the upwind capability of a foil (and a cheap foil at that).





cbulota
WA, 1151 posts
21 Apr 2016 10:37AM
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The best upwind angles you can achieve on the water would obviously be using a hydrofoil. Those high angles would also be matched in landkiting (buggy, mountainboard) or snow kiting (especially on skis).

I believe your typical upwind angle on a standard twin tip would be averaging 10-15 degrees. When using a twin tip I noticed the windsurfers have a slightly better angle than me, maybe by 5 degrees...not sure about sailboats.

Using a hydrofoil I can get up to 40 degree angles with an inflatable kite (picture below). I think that angle can increase using a foil kite, perhaps up to 45 or maybe even more ?

If you use a GPS tracking and know the wind direction it's fairly easy to measure your upwind and downwind angles, may not be super accurate, but close enough



Christian

harlie
QLD, 188 posts
21 Apr 2016 12:59PM
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boating angles will be quoted in relation to the wind, 0 is directly into the wind.

My cruising cat can point 30deg (which would be 60 in Christian's pic), however speed at that angle really drops off, bear-off to 45deg and it gets along nicely. That is a cat with mini keels which doesn't point as well as a cat with daggerboards, which is outdone by a good monohull in terms of how high they can point into the wind. Pretty sure monos can point higher due to a combination of factors like keel size (grip in the water) and the fact that the mast leans over creating a greater low pressure zone behind the main. The design of the headsail plays a big part in this too.

Big difference with kiting is we don't have a mast which allows the sail angle to be controlled without the sail racing to the edge of the window.

kiteflo
132 posts
21 Apr 2016 11:01AM
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Thanks guys, you pretty much confirmed my guesstimate.
was hoping for 20 deg on a door, will see what I can achive once I sort out the tracking app.
any recommendations for an iphone?
cheers

bigtone667
NSW, 921 posts
21 Apr 2016 1:40PM
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A door is pretty good, but a hydrofoil is ridiculously efficient.

kiteflo
132 posts
21 Apr 2016 11:57AM
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No doubt about that. saw one flying what felt like straight into the wind a few days ago. I was edging like crazy on my tt, the foil looked effortless.

Hardcarve1
QLD, 379 posts
21 Apr 2016 2:13PM
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Strong wind, slowest board speed, kite as low as possible, depowed kite and edging as hard as you can and I think you may get some twin tips up to some respectable wind angles maybe up over 20deg. But that's just guessing and not confirmed.

kemp90
QLD, 1613 posts
21 Apr 2016 5:05PM
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You should see how far you go upwind when you have a 5knot current pushing directly up wind! It's awsome!!

Edit. Just don't drop your kite in the flow when you are stuck on the bank. You have to run up wind to relaunch it!

Gorgo
VIC, 4002 posts
21 Apr 2016 6:02PM
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Why do you want to know? What are you planning on doing and how does putting a number on it make a difference?

Most of the upwind performance differences are fairly obvious and follow what you would intuitively expect.

kiteflo
132 posts
21 Apr 2016 5:39PM
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Select to expand quote
Gorgo said..
Why do you want to know? What are you planning on doing and how does putting a number on it make a difference?

Most of the upwind performance differences are fairly obvious and follow what you would intuitively expect.


Camping trip (possibly peel island) with a mate. He's got a small catamaran. We're looking at where to launch from and just planning the trip a bit. He's into chats and plotting and all that stuff so needed a rough number for that.

Peahi
VIC, 935 posts
21 Apr 2016 7:55PM
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as long as you can get back to where you started then that's upwind enough

foils aside, a massive improvement over a TT is a surfboard

kiteflo
132 posts
21 Apr 2016 6:14PM
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Not really if our camping spot is a few ks upwind of the boat ramp

kiteflo
132 posts
21 Apr 2016 6:16PM
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Also, it's gonna happen in june so I'm expecting super light wind.
might have to use a sup

Plummet
4219 posts
22 Apr 2016 8:42AM
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For max upwind the board is most important. So get yourself the most upwinding board in the type of board that you want.

Then get the most upwinding foward pointing kite you can find. These days thats a high aspect race foil. They crankupwind like a mofo!

But is upwinding gear might not be the best for your style or conditions...........So you might be cranking up wind like a rat up a drain pipe but be misserable because the rest of your riding is cactus.

kiteflo
132 posts
22 Apr 2016 1:01PM
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I've got a 17.5 lf solo which I'm really happy with. Will build a door soon and report back. I'm fairly confident that I can do 20 deg which will be heaps for a fun day on the water with a sail 'rescue' boat

kiteflo
132 posts
22 Apr 2016 1:06PM
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what about a foam surfboard? Got one lying around somewhere. If I remember it correctly it doesn't have a lot of rocker and it is super floaty. Around 7" I think. Any good upwind in light winds?
Any tried?

MaxVMGRacing
WA, 120 posts
22 Apr 2016 1:39PM
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very little beats a hydrofoil & foil kite upwind.here is track from Mexico Hydrofoil Pro Tour recently.Matt Taggart - Mikes Lab Hydrofoil and 15m R1v2, wind maybe 13knots.
The top mark 1 is directly 1.8km upwind from the start line on the course



With more wind you could could go higher angles again as the hydrofoil starts to work better at high speeds.

MaxVMGRacing
WA, 120 posts
22 Apr 2016 2:00PM
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Going upwind on foil is near as fast as going downwind,

after this years Lancelin classic, all the hydrofoils kited back up to the start line in not much less time that it took them to win the race.Another local annual event, Around the sound, the foils go up from Woodies out to Carnac island and then up to Rockingham and back.Winner Andy Cooksey i think did the course this year n 1h15


Peahi
VIC, 935 posts
22 Apr 2016 4:15PM
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Select to expand quote
kiteflo said..
what about a foam surfboard? Got one lying around somewhere. If I remember it correctly it doesn't have a lot of rocker and it is super floaty. Around 7" I think. Any good upwind in light winds?
Any tried?



Select to expand quote
HighzaKite said..

foils aside, a massive improvement over a TT is a surfboard



like I said, if you don't want to invest in (ie: waste money on) a foil board

kiteflo
132 posts
23 Apr 2016 8:07PM
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Today on my 12m envy, 21kt gusting 24. 142 twintip
cant properly work out angles on ipad, maybe 20?

cauncy
WA, 6267 posts
23 Apr 2016 9:24PM
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As you can see pilot Pete
Is heading straight under the boat

INTHELOOP
QLD, 1855 posts
24 Apr 2016 6:43AM
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Florian Trittel does about 17knots VMG in 10-12 knots on his 15m foil kite and KFA Mako V1.Thats pretty insane



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"Max upwind angle" started by kiteflo