I started out on a Slingshot Fuel...I had no problems learning with this kite, and now i'm really glad i got the Fuel over the Diesel...

It just depends how quickly you want (or can) progress?
Ask yourself what kind of tricks, or style of riding do you prefer the most. If your wanting to do the latest wakestyle tricks and need stable kite with a more solid pull, your better off with a medium/ low aspect. If you want to get more power, higher jumps and longer hangtime go for a high aspect style kite.

You say you've had some experience, so i'll assume you can fly a kite pretty well. You cant go wrong with the boxer, diesel or vegas, However you will see a few differences between these and the Torch or Fuel.
- You will get more power, hangtime, higher jumps and a faster turning kite from a Fuel, but the Diesel will handle wind gusts slightly better, turn a bit slower & also comes with ATL (all terrain launch)

- You will get more power, hangtime, higher jumps and a faster turning kite from a Torch, But a Boxer will be more stable in gusts, have more depower and be easier to water relaunch.

So if your up to the point where you can confidently fly a kite overpowered, go upwind, jump and have no problems water relaunching
and you want to start getting longer hangtime in the air, and more power out of the kite, go for the higher aspect kites.

Some pro's today still use the Boxer - its just a good all round kite. You can learn on it easy and you'll never really grow out of it....However, one day you might want to go higher and be in the air longer and have a bit more power, for that you will need a kite like the Torch or Fuel.
Hope that helps a bit.

I have been given an 8m 12m and 16m Naish Torch to try out. I have flown the 12m and 8m about six times in the past few days in multiple sessions. I will give one piece of advice....always, I repeat always watch these kites. They turn like nothing I have ever seen and are definately NOT for the faint hearted.

Nothing at all like the North Rhino4's that I was riding and definately not like a Vegas or a Boxer.

Very hard work on the arms as they are very responsive to bar input.

I hope I will be able to stay uninjured on these things as the wipe-outs I have had have been like being a beginner again not knowing where my kite is.

I feel old.

Hope it helps.

Thanks for the input.
I do not want a kite I have to watch all the time. I could use slow connection points for the Torch but well. Smooth powerdeivery and med/low aspect is what I like. Boxer, Vegas, Slingshot? I will collect more info about those. I like the 5'th line idea and may be able even to equip a Slingshot with it.

Hmmm...I have crashed these kites more than I have crashed ALL my kites in my history of kiting put together.
1. 5th line thing is simply easy, I have absolutely no problem getting them back up off the water It's the most impressive thing I have seen in kiting for a long while. (sounds like Owieb's needs tuning)
2. I didn't find it all stable compared to the Aero2 or Boxer.
BUT will reserve judgement until I have played around with the tuning, however they are supposed to come tuned and ready to rumble and this is what I am giving feedback on. Every kiter should be in the habit of tuning chicken loop length to arm length etc..

I have flown every Naish kite made, every North kite made, the Wipika Whips/Matrix, Slingshot fuel, Airush Lift Pro's

I am certainly not able to support AT THIS POINT IN TIME the notion that Naish kites are a friendly unit to beginners/intermediate kiters.

Naish do not market them as such and there's a reason for this. I say again though, I am still deciding how I will review them after I have put some time into tuning them.

I have tried to use the slow connection points, that's one thing I have worked out, all it does is make it slow to go, but when it starts going it's off like a rocket.....then it's "pulling cray pots strength" needed to catch up with it. To me it just wore my arms out.

I am definately in agreeance with Owieb....it's rider preference, you need to try kites out before you can decide if they work for you. What's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander.

Yeah, I was wondering about your title to this post. Does advanced beginner mean intermediate? No not really I suppose, it means advanced beginner. I have a slight case of the stupids this morning.

The Green Baron

I'll get you yet Von Richtofen, you fiend.

I just switched from rhino 2s' to the onepump fuels this year, and the fuels are way faster turning when powered up, great for doing kite loops but I'm sure these fuels will be the death of me. The first jump I tried with my 9meter fuel in about 25 mph winds I brought the kite forward far too soon *not being used to the speed these kites turn at* noticed my kite was fully forward in position to land while I was at the apex of my jump and had to whip it back up. The result was a little extra hang time, but it realy cought me by surprise. Anyone else notice notice these kites turning super fast or is it just me?