Rescue someone?

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sebol
sebol
WA
753 posts
WA, 753 posts
22 Jul 2008 1:38pm
Hi all,

I was having a chat with my mate this morning and we were wondering what to do in case you actually face the situation of seeing someone in a deadly ongoing kite loop situation.

I doubt many of you would have faced this sitiuation but would you ride your way to the person getting dragged or is your best chance to crash your own kite into his lines?

I feel a bit guilty bringing up those ugly thoughts but i usually like to have a back up plan for all occasions.It doesn't affect the risk of it happening but it makes me feel a bit more comfortable.
Beer Bong
Beer Bong
WA
350 posts
WA, 350 posts
22 Jul 2008 1:53pm
A knife perhaps.
Kitehard
Kitehard
WA
2782 posts
WA, 2782 posts
22 Jul 2008 5:12pm
Hi Sebol,

I would be hesitant to crash my kite through their lines for a couple of reasons, the main one being you could cut their flagging line or worse still, your own! You could end up putting your kite into a looping scenario and tangling with the person you are trying to rescue making it worse. You maybe able to jettison your gear but then there is one more person who needs to be rescued.

Personally I would attempt a fast crash tackle onto the kite itself as it pauses before it's next loop and then firing my quick release and . But this is not something I would recommend for others to try, it could also go horribly wrong if timing is off. I would have to assess the situation before attempting any intervention.

Preferably a knife to the lines once the kite hits the water just above the leaders would be the least dangerous.

If it is on the beach, throwing a towel or wetsuit over the lines before you try and grab anything can help but again, descretion is advised as lines cut skin like a hot knife through butter. Just a few thoughts!

Good winds,

Damo
Damo
WA
641 posts
WA, 641 posts
22 Jul 2008 5:59pm
i have come across this situation twice on the offshore side at woodys
the first time the person had their leash wrapped around the end of their bar making the kite loop like mad fortunately i was able to ride next to the person being dragged and talk them through pulling their QR on their leash fully releasing their kite. i then rode off down wind and recovered their kite and they swam in. i think they might have been freaking out a bit and all they needed was someone there to calmly talk to them through first finding their QR on their harness and then to pull it.

the second time the person (not the same person) had a line caught around the end of the bar and they were laying on their back getting dragged through the water with their head above the water only about 50% of the time. i had spoken to this guy on the beach only a few mins before he went out and i knew his english wasn't that great so i rode up behind him and tried talking to him but got no response so i had to ride right up to him and nearly run him over so i could reach down and pull his QR for him. his kite fell in the water he got his breath back and got the kite back up in the air and dragged back in.

both of these situations could potentially have been fatal and easily avoided if people would just familiarise them selves with the QR and not hesitate to use it!


if the kite is looping i would never recommend trying to grap the lines cos there is just way too much power and even if you could grab them i dont think you would ever be able to hang onto them and you would just cut your hands realy badly and i dont think cutting the lines is a very realistic idea either because everything is just moving way too quickly with way too much power. i think the only way out is to release the kite even trying to take the harrness off is a better idea than trying to grab or cut the lines. but the best way to avoid a situation like that is to not let it happen in the first place always have a working QR on your chicken loop and your leash and check it offten!!
Kitehard
Kitehard
WA
2782 posts
WA, 2782 posts
22 Jul 2008 10:41pm
Hey Damo,

I thought Sebol was talking about an incident where QR was rendered inoperative. Yep, definately never grab lines if you can use the QR.

I have dived on looping kites before on the beach, never had to on the water. Talked plenty of students out of looping kite scenarios (via radio) since the introduction of Bow style kites.

Good winds,


Jimmyz
Jimmyz
NSW
446 posts
NSW, 446 posts
23 Jul 2008 1:46am
I think grab onto the guy and try help him hold down the kite, if he hasn't already lodged himself in a tree
rusty7
rusty7
QLD
504 posts
QLD, 504 posts
23 Jul 2008 1:15pm
This is a good question.
I have thought about this quite a bit having been the recipient on 2 such occasions.1 time in the water and one time on land, both times with a 13m kite so we are talking huge pull.
In the water my lines were wrapped around the chicken loop hook on my harness so so aside from cutting the lines(I did not have a knife ) I was totally unable to release. I think the only sure bet it is to tackle the kite. If someone had jumped off and grabbed onto me then that would have only slowed things marginally. And we would both have been in trouble. The tension on the lines was enomous. I had to grab a handful of lines and wait till the kite hit the water and stopped for a moment and then pull the lines in and unhook. It took several attempts and I cut my hands plenty but eventually I was able to detatch myself from the kite.

On land I had a broken line just above the bar this somehow got caught up on the depower line I was being dragged backwards a could not actually grab the quick release as the handle pass line had broken on one side when i pulled the chicken loop release and the qr was out of reach. (On an Ozone Edge the kite will not depower fully on the 5th line always hook on above the bar when launching and landing) In this case I think if you grabbed the person on the end 2 people might be able to hold it long enough to get free from the kite,again if someone can grab the kite this is the best. DO NOT grab the lines as the tension is huge and they will cut like a knife. Main thing is not to panic ....and hope for the best!!
Supersane
Supersane
NSW
174 posts
NSW, 174 posts
23 Jul 2008 7:36pm
My bridle broke, kite looped, and I was dragged through the water really fast but smoothly, torso out of the water. Pulled the QR and self rescued. Still got a couple of nasty cuts on my hands somehow. It would be a different story if you couldn't QR or were submarining.

A windsurfer recovered my board for me which was floating crossshore (never got to thank him either)
sci
sci
WA
762 posts
sci sci
WA, 762 posts
23 Jul 2008 6:14pm
Damo said...

i have come across this situation twice on the offshore side at woodys
the first time the person had their leash wrapped around the end of their bar making the kite loop like mad fortunately i was able to ride next to the person being dragged and talk them through pulling their QR on their leash fully releasing their kite. i then rode off down wind and recovered their kite and they swam in. i think they might have been freaking out a bit and all they needed was someone there to calmly talk to them through first finding their QR on their harness and then to pull it.

the second time the person (not the same person) had a line caught around the end of the bar and they were laying on their back getting dragged through the water with their head above the water only about 50% of the time. i had spoken to this guy on the beach only a few mins before he went out and i knew his english wasn't that great so i rode up behind him and tried talking to him but got no response so i had to ride right up to him and nearly run him over so i could reach down and pull his QR for him. his kite fell in the water he got his breath back and got the kite back up in the air and dragged back in.

both of these situations could potentially have been fatal and easily avoided if people would just familiarise them selves with the QR and not hesitate to use it!


if the kite is looping i would never recommend trying to grap the lines cos there is just way too much power and even if you could grab them i dont think you would ever be able to hang onto them and you would just cut your hands realy badly and i dont think cutting the lines is a very realistic idea either because everything is just moving way too quickly with way too much power. i think the only way out is to release the kite even trying to take the harrness off is a better idea than trying to grab or cut the lines. but the best way to avoid a situation like that is to not let it happen in the first place always have a working QR on your chicken loop and your leash and check it offten!!



Great advice - I have experienced this scenario (lines wrapped around bar) I hesitated and tried to get the kite down and then unwrap and relaunch. This was eventually an option however a stupid one in hindsight! I agree with Damo here - just let the whole lot go and normally if the winds are in your favor it will hit the beach eventually. I always carry a knife which I guess is better option if it is offshore and nobody is around to rescue your kit cut and self rescue.

These are great questions and the answer should be in every kiters repertoire. Perhaps somebody or a group of people would be interested in running a safety clinic at the beginning of the coming season.?


Kitehard
Kitehard
WA
2782 posts
WA, 2782 posts
23 Jul 2008 11:25pm
H Sci,

We have (Australian Kiteboarding School) run free self rescue sessions in the past and would be happy to put on another one for anyone caring to come on down and have a chat and go back over some fundamentals of SR and safety.

Last time we did it was in conjunction with WAKSA at Brighton and was focused on Self Rescue only, they put on a BBQ and we had about 25-30 people show up. We can cover 4 line "C", 5 line, Hybrid and bow kites. I'd be happy to put together a plan to cover safety and SR.

We'd be stoked to do it again once the weather clears up a bit and it gets a bit warmer, like you said, just before the season starts. We'd be happy to show what to inspect on your gear prior to season start, especially when so many riders will be coming out of the winter and dragging kites and boards out of the garage that haven't been used for 6 -8 months.

Maybe if Puppet can contact us and we can organise dates if there is enough interest. I'm happy to come down for as few as 3 or 4 people.

Any takers?

Good winds,

sci
sci
WA
762 posts
sci sci
WA, 762 posts
24 Jul 2008 1:28am
Sounds excellent Kitehard. Education is vital in keeping the water safe. I will bring my BBQ and put a sizzle.

Cheers
ianmac
ianmac
WA
267 posts
WA, 267 posts
24 Jul 2008 8:25am
i'm a taker on the reeducation I know three or four guys who would be keen to come along as well, since they only really started kiting late last year.

It also sends the right message to the community that we are a resonsible lot.
the last thing we need is a fatality along our coast, either the personal tragedy of it. plus the following respercussions that councils may feel obliged to act.

lets do it
Andrash
Andrash
WA
637 posts
WA, 637 posts
24 Jul 2008 11:13am
Great idea.......let me know if you need any help organizing it........and I will be there for the learning as well.....

I had 2 kite looping accidents: one attempted to drown me, the other to hook me into some rocks. I got out of both by knowing where my QR was........sure I check it before every session.

I wonder, if all wave riders carry a knife?...or is there other ways of getting out of trouble after thrown into and entangled with the lines?

Any suggestion what's the best knife out there and where to buy it?
sebol
sebol
WA
753 posts
WA, 753 posts
24 Jul 2008 12:21pm
Yep, i will tag along for that one.
HowieD
HowieD
NSW
88 posts
NSW, 88 posts
24 Jul 2008 2:29pm
Andrash said...


I wonder, if all wave riders carry a knife?...or is there other ways of getting out of trouble after thrown into and entangled with the lines?

Any suggestion what's the best knife out there and where to buy it?


Not sure about the best knife out there but one obvious thing to remember - much like the QR - make sure you know exactly where it is and you can grab hold of it easily. My mystic firestarter harness holds a knife but the standard bit of webbing attached to it is tiny and would be impossible to grab hold of in an emergency. Have attached a decent size loop to it so I can find it and easily pull it out should I ever need it.
elemental
elemental
NSW
165 posts
NSW, 165 posts
24 Jul 2008 3:53pm
sbray said...

Andrash said...


Any suggestion what's the best knife out there and where to buy it?


The hook knives offered here may fit the bill

http://www.terminalsports.com.au/catalog/index.php?cPath=169_170

Regards
the fossil


Jack the ripper all the way!!! I carry two of these and one smaller steel one when doing CRW (flying canopies Into each other on purpose)first one to drop second to cut entagling lines Dont go the cheep plastic ones they WILL break and rinse out aftyer session and check before!
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