Dear Slave

For more years than I can remember, you have advocated/argued/proposed that safety leashes are dangerous, and as recently as this week, gone so far as to suggest that safety leashes alone have been the direct cause of many fatalities.

See this thread for more info: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/A-Death-Loop-and-Lessons-Learned/

You may have access to resources that the rest of us don't have, but in the interests of substantiating your long standing claims, it's time to put this information out there for the rest of us in the Aus/WA kiting community to consider.

I took the liberty of conducting a google search as you suggested, but couldn't find anything directly related to safety leashes causing a death. I note you didn't answer my question in your most recent post, hence, I'm asking you up front here.
It would be a shame for you to withhold valuable safety information if you have this information.

I note your additional advice that you don't do "runaway kites." I think all of us here would agree that runaway kites are never a pretty sight, especially for the kiter concerned.

I'm not sure precisely when safety leashes were initially introduced/became standard in kite surfing, but they do seem to have become somewhat standard across the numerous brands.

If you have a method of securing a kite that is an improvement on the industry standard, and your methodology is an improvement to safety standards, it would be a shame for you to withhold valuable safety information. Again. So in the interests of improving (kiting) community safety, show us, teach us, lead us to a better way.

You've been around for a while now 'Slave. Here is an opportunity for you to make a potentially valuable contribution to the kiting community and help make our sport safer.

Over to you.

Juddy

Juddy said..
Dear Slave

For more years than I can remember, you have advocated/argued/proposed that safety leashes are dangerous, and as recently as this week, gone so far as to suggest that safety leashes alone have been the direct cause of many fatalities.

See this thread for more info: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/A-Death-Loop-and-Lessons-Learned/

You may have access to resources that the rest of us don't have, but in the interests of substantiating your long standing claims, it's time to put this information out there for the rest of us in the Aus/WA kiting community to consider.

I took the liberty of conducting a google search as you suggested, but couldn't find anything directly related to safety leashes causing a death. I note you didn't answer my question in your most recent post, hence, I'm asking you up front here.
It would be a shame for you to withhold valuable safety information if you have this information.

I note your additional advice that you don't do "runaway kites." I think all of us here would agree that runaway kites are never a pretty sight, especially for the kiter concerned.

I'm not sure precisely when safety leashes were initially introduced/became standard in kite surfing, but they do seem to have become somewhat standard across the numerous brands.

If you have a method of securing a kite that is an improvement on the industry standard, and your methodology is an improvement to safety standards, it would be a shame for you to withhold valuable safety information. Again. So in the interests of improving (kiting) community safety, show us, teach us, lead us to a better way.

You've been around for a while now 'Slave. Here is an opportunity for you to make a potentially valuable contribution to the kiting community and help make our sport safer.

Over to you.

Juddy

Simple, if you don't do handle passes just get yourself a short leash. They are usually supplied with race kites. I think Best also sell them with some of their entry level kites.

Easy enough to wrap a leash around a bar end so I get Slave's point here.

Pretty sure 90% + of the kiting population don't do handle passes so opting for a short leash might be a good option to prevent a few unpredicted loops...

Most blokes come with a short leash, which their wives are currently using

Safety Leashes are a factor in 100% of all Kite related deaths because everyone has one .

Waveslave talks some smack, but he does have a point, they are dangerous.
A lot of people don't realise that when they release they could possibly still just be attached to a leash they are un-able to detach from, which is atttached to a kite likely looping them towards a hard surface.

All close calls I've witnessed with pro riders have been because of leashes. Leashes are the primary trigger of most advanced rider accidents, but bulky bar ends are the real root of the problem.

When will kite companies realise that huge golf clubs on either end of a bar isn't ever a safe thing?... They've been the cause of many close to deadly situations I've witnessed and all because of something that's not even needed. End winders on a bar serve even less purpose than a handle on a board, it's just as easy to wind your lines around your bar as it is to put them around it's ends, I would say it's actually even easier (I do it regardless). Kite companies should make more streamlined bars that have no option to wind your lines on the end. If your lines can wind on the end, then your lines can snag on the ends just as easy .

I'd like to see Waveslave take his focus away from death leashes and move towards spamming forums with concerns about golf club looking death sticks.

waveslave said...

Juddy said...

Dear Slave

Over to you.

Juddy,

Have you ever launched a kite ..

(maybe you were in a rush that day),

perhaps you had pressing thoughts on your mind,,,

well anyway once you were out to sea you discovered that you had forgotten your death-leash.

Wow, instantly you felt naked, right ?

Maybe a bit foolish ?

Perhaps a little vulnerable ?

Well, I never get those feelings.

lol.

And then having discovered that you were death-leashless,

You said, "Oh fk it. I'll kite for awhile without it."

You knew it was going to be too much of a hassle going back to the beach,

self-landing your kite, searching the car for the stupid tether.

So at the end of the day you pondered the situation .....

You thought to yourself :

"Wow Juddy, I'm pretty cool. I didn't lose my kite. I didn't kill an innocent kid on the beach with a runaway."

lol.

I must admit I've done this, once. A couple of seasons ago. Drove down to the beach with some mates, setup and realized I'd left my leash at home.
There was no way I wasn't getting on the water that day for a cranking downwinder with the boys so off we went. Felt weird initially, and I was quite conscious of the fact I wasn't connected for a bit, but all in all, no problems.
Suppose it could have been a different story if it got away from me near people?
-what would you suggest then slave?
Judy has some extremely valid questions that would be great to get some insight on slave.

I thought I would provide my valuable insight into this topic..

Could leashes be similar to condoms?

Put one on and your safe..
Don't put one on and suffer the consequences and after effects..

Or visa versa??

Who knows or cares... 2 men enter 1 man leaves..
WAKSAjuddy and WackoWaveslave..

It's like a gnarly cat fight meeeeooooow!

sir ROWDY said..
Safety Leashes are a factor in 100% of all Kite related deaths because everyone has one www.seabreeze.com.au/images/forums/icon_smile_big.gif' />.

Thats a bullsh1t statement too. How could they be involved if they are actually no deployed? If the primary safety has not been operated they are not involved at all. this is as dumb as saying that a parking brake is involved in all MV accidents because all MV's have one, please don't feed this troll

sir ROWDY said..
Waveslave talks some smack, but he does have a point, they are dangerous.
A lot of people don't realise that when they release they could possibly still just be attached to a leash they are un-able to detach from, which is atttached to a kite likely looping them towards a hard surface.

Hmm, ever consider that part of the problem is foolish kiters with a strong need to show off their (dubious)"skills" don't plan in advance for a what if situation? They use equipment that is know to cause hangups of the leash, then blame the equipment instead of modifying their gear, and moving away from dangerous locations.

sir ROWDY said..
All close calls I've witnessed with pro riders have been because of leashes. Leashes are the primary trigger of most advanced rider accidents, but bulky bar ends are the real root of the problem.

You've probably seen more than most for sure, but take into account what i said above and then the cause is somewhat mitigated and some of the responsibility should be rightly borne by the rider.

sir ROWDY said..
When will kite companies realise that huge golf clubs on either end of a bar isn't ever a safe thing?... They've been the cause of many close to deadly situations I've witnessed and all because of something that's not even needed. End winders on a bar serve even less purpose than a handle on a board, it's just as easy to wind your lines around your bar as it is to put them around it's ends, I would say it's actually even easier (I do it regardless). Kite companies should make more streamlined bars that have no option to wind your lines on the end. If your lines can wind on the end, then your lines can snag on the ends just as easy .

I'd like to see "that idiot" take his focus away from death leashes and move towards spamming forums with concerns about golf club looking death sticks.

You have made your own ridiculously small bar that is easy to wind the lines on, but 80%+ of riders are not like you and never will be. Its illogical to say that big bar ends are the root cause of all evil, rider behaviour has a huge part to play.
Most riders do not want to go wakeboarding behind a kite and the bars kite companies make in general suit 80+% of riders and are quite safe, the stays prove this, thousands of people kite everyday and they do not have these issues that just a few riders have. those few that do have an issue seem oblivious to the fact that the gear they are using cannot suit all needs and they should make their own, or use a brand that is known to be less likely to cause issues.

Should be an interesting chat over coffee soon haha!

TerryMcTool said..

sir ROWDY said..
Safety Leashes are a factor in 100% of all Kite related deaths

Should be an interesting chat over coffee soon haha!

Wow Rowdy,

We know you're in bed with Kitepower,

you can't bag out death-leashes ... they're a big seller in the store.

You need to be a team player, there's no room for conscience votes when it comes to retail.

lol.

waveslave said..

TerryMcTool said..

sir ROWDY said..
Safety Leashes are a factor in 100% of all Kite related deaths

Should be an interesting chat over coffee soon haha!

Wow Rowdy,

We know you're in bed with Kitepower,

you can't bag out death-leashes ... they're a big seller in the store.

You need to be a team player, there's no room for conscience votes when it comes to retail.

lol.

What are you talking about Waveslave? I'm bagging out almost every kite bar in existence... they are an even bigger seller in any store (including KP) than "Death-Leashes" are or ever will be. Lay off the buegs for a while.

p.s. When I read "Death-Leash", I think Death-Star.

KIT33R said..
The handlepass crowd definitely need a leash but, correct me if I'm wrong, they tend to ride suicide which makes flagging the kite impossible. It merely stops the kite from sailing down the bay if a trick goes wrong.

They can flag the kite if they pop the primary safety release on the chicken loop. They need a death star, most of the time for the simple reason that they unhook, unlike the rest of us who never unhook

KIT33R said..
Most mishaps occur on launching or landing so having the option to flag a kite makes sense. If you did not have a leash you may be less inclined to release your kite on a crowded beach and suffer the consequences.

I'm not sure about most, but for sure this is the one place where even a moderate lofting or heavy pull will seriously hurt/kill the rider or innocent bystanders. The use of a leash aka death star gives the rider the opportunity to depower the kite and stop the horror show, if there is no death star in use, then if the primary safety is used there is a runaway kite that will continue to wreak havoc until it tangles on something immovable.

KIT33R said..
In open water, and you have a steering line caught around your harness and the kite is looping, then flagging the kite onto a leash may not help. It is better to ditch the thing if possible.

If you never unhook, why have a hook? The hook is a throwback to the early days and needs to be ditched, it is part of the death star family of defunct ideas. No hook would mean far less tangled lines and out of control kites.
If a rider has aspirations to be a kite Jedi and insists on bar passing (handles are used in wakeboarding), then they should do what Rowdy has done and modify their bar and leash so there is minimal chance of it snagging, they should also never kite near solid objects, other kiters and the beach, if there is any chance that the gear they are using was made in the death star

KIT33R said..
Sometimes, for no particular reason, your chicken loop may decide to part company with your harness hook. It happens. Having a leash will save the loss of a kite that could potentially injure someone.

Discuss

The hook is made in the death star get rid of it. The hook is the reason you accidentally become unhooked

RAL INN said..

Safety leashes are not for the kiters safety they are there to keep others safe from kiters.

That's exactly right. ^^^

It's a bit like seat belts in cars are for the drivers safety,

not to save pedestrians from getting hurt from my car.

So my not using a death-leash is my 'seatbelt' for kiting.

That's called self-preservation.

Unhooked tricks don't interest me so I don't have a harness hook. I use a shackle on a length of rope on my harness. The shackle connects to the chicken loop.

My primary release is still the chicken loop as everyone else does and I never have an accidental unhooking. Releasing he chicken loop flags the kite onto the safety leash.

hilly said..

waveslave said..

RAL INN said..

Safety leashes are not for the kiters safety they are there to keep others safe from kiters.

That's exactly right. ^^^

It's a bit like seat belts in cars are for the drivers safety,

not to save pedestrians from getting hurt from my car.

So my not using a death-leash is my 'seatbelt' for kiting.

That's called self-preservation.

Bugger everyone else downwind

Why ? ^^

I've no intention of losing control of it.

Why unhook, when you can mow!

Juddy. "Poems" and LOL's are all your gonna get

the best predictor of someones future actions is their past.

HighzaKite said..

cauncy said..
Most blokes come with a short leash, which their wives are currently using

wife: have you been sneaking out kiting dear?
husband: err... no
wife: then why is your leash wet?

Sneaked out of work for a 3-hour session mid-winter... forgot the sunblock, came back just before knock-off with a bright red sunburned face. Nobody noticed... I almost miss that job