Some questions about boards...

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bigmark100
bigmark100
NSW
584 posts
NSW, 584 posts
1 May 2007 3:51pm
Bored at work - so keen to learn something about my board.

Recently I met someone who rides without fins. He says fins just make drag and slow you down. He says he teaches people without fins - and they never struggle with going up wind from day one....

Ive never tried a board without fins?
Does it make a lot of difference?
Why do we need fins. I understand that it helps with keeping an edge - but does it make a HUGE difference to riding style? and why would it effect riding upwind?

Convext and concave?
What are the pros and cons?
Most boards seem to be concave? why?
Better edge - but does this suck agaist the water?

Flex
Okay - I know this one. Allows you to absorb gusts more, flexing the board and driving the kite upwind.
Also makes it softer in the chop.

Sharp edge.
I have a board - AIRRUSH hammer - which has a rounded edge.
My crazy fly has a very sharp edge?
How does this effect riding?

discuss....

bellz
bellz
WA
572 posts
WA, 572 posts
1 May 2007 9:25pm
dnt no but id stikk with fins because when u get a decent amount of speed up u might be likely to slip and it would hurt!
sunseeker
sunseeker
QLD
1203 posts
QLD, 1203 posts
2 May 2007 8:59am
A fin does cause drag but it makes a big difference to how the board performs. When just going in a straight line trying to ride up wind, once you have some speed up with a full rail buried the fin may make little difference. When carving, wave riding, jumping etc. if you didn't have fins on the board you'd be sliding all over the place. Trying to get big pop would be harder too I should imagine. I've never tried no fins so this is just my opinion.

My reasoning always is - if it was better without fins - the pros would ride without fins and the board makers would make a lot of boards without fins.
Kitehard
Kitehard
WA
2782 posts
WA, 2782 posts
2 May 2007 10:44am
Hi Guys,

In short, yes fins make a big difference. Fins offer directional stability and control in turns and jump landings and also through choppy water. It is possible to ride without fins but you will need a lot of concave to make it work well. Like the buzz boards of 2003 (finless concave boards of around 80-90cm)

A friend of mine in Townsville made fins out of aluminium flat strip for his composite home made boards about 2mm thick, they worked a treat and cost about $2 for 4.

I've ridden several boards without fins of both convex and concave design. Any board can be ridden without fins, flatter boards are most difficult.

On speed runs in Augusta (glassy flat water and strong wind), I removed all fins to reduce drag and although it was more slippery through the water, the top end was the same as you couldn't maintain the level of control at extreme speeds.

Convex will make the board handle chop better by reducing the slapping. You gain some control at high speed through rough water, but you lose upwind ability as the board makes more leeway ie side slip. Concave aids in tracking and upwind by peeling the water away from the board and digging the heel rail in at a slightly more vertical angle than normal boards.

Flex gives control by allowing the board to conform to the pressure applied. It also offers spring from the tail and takes some of the bone shattering slapping out of the board in chop. You lose upwind ability with a flexy board, but they carve nicer than a hard board.

A very hard board will be faster and will go upwind better (depending upon rocker) but is not fun with big flat landings from kiteloops etc. A board with progressive flex works best because it offers stiffness in the middle and flex in the tips for carving nice turns and controlled spring off the tail in loaded moves.

Rail design is all about how it handles in waves and rough water. A soft (rounded) rail will suck the board down a fraction more and allow water to slide around the edge of the board. What this allows is the board to not catch a rail and has a more forgiving transition from rail to rail, also allows slower more aggressive turns on waves like on your hammer.

A sharp rail has a cleaner release from the water which is better for speed and high speed carves but works lousy in waves where your speed is slower. Sharp rails tend to be less tolerant of mistakes and you are more likely to catch a rail and face plant yourself big time (stings!)

There are as many different types of fins as there are board shapes and all have a different feel and characteristic. Tall fins, short fins, raked, rounded TE, cutaway etc. They also have different hydrodynamic profiles to create lift at low or high speeds, symetrically or assymetrically, draught forwards or aft or sharp or blunt leading edge.

A new set of fins can dramatically change the characteristics of the feel of your board and it is definately a lot cheaper than buying a new board, plus you can keep fins you like and sell off the ones you dont.

Before buying fins, borrow some from a mate and try before you buy. Specialist fin shapers produce better fins than most production board manufacturers and even different fins amongst the range of boards.

Hope this goes some way to helping, it really is the readers digest of answers but to give a complete answer I'd need to type away for half a day and it would really be quite the tome.

Good winds,

meerkat
meerkat
WA
644 posts
WA, 644 posts
2 May 2007 10:59am
easiest way to see the difference fins makes is by taking out the front fins. eg. when heading left you have fins in the back of the board, when you head right you have no fins at the back

Or you could just ride the same direction all day and when you get to mozambique then swap the fins over and head back.
Munter
Munter
NSW
210 posts
NSW, 210 posts
2 May 2007 2:02pm
I tried riding an 04 flx122 without fins the other day. Its a small board with no concave. Wow - it was like riding a shoping trolley! Sure it goes fast but it does so without any guarantee that it will be nose first. The yawing, particularly when edging hard, was far more pronounced without the fins on. I had previously thought that fins just gave directional stability when standing upright above the board and through carve turns - no I know they are important when edging as well.
BoDiddly
BoDiddly
VIC
622 posts
VIC, 622 posts
2 May 2007 3:12pm
Own experience here, first board I had, only had 2 fins. in the centre of each tip, some times it was really skatey but others when edged well it was OK, then got a board with 4 fins in the usual position and it was a whole different ball/board game!

Dig the fins. Will try finless one day!
bigmark100
bigmark100
NSW
584 posts
NSW, 584 posts
2 May 2007 3:55pm
thanks for the feedback.
Funny - i had the same thought - if riding without fins was "the future" then surely the pros would be on to it. - also Im sure that wake boarding would have also made some headway into this area.
One argument he had was that snowboards dont have fins.....
I imagine if they did you would get quite a few faceplants which wouldnt be as much fun as they are on water.

sunseeker
sunseeker
QLD
1203 posts
QLD, 1203 posts
2 May 2007 5:49pm
quote:
Originally posted by bigmark100



One argument he had was that snowboards dont have fins.....



that's a pretty dumb argument if I ever heard one...mainly because snow boarding is done on snow and not water...

Ask him why they don't make kiteboards the same shape as snowboards... In fact ask him if he's ever tried kiting in the sea on a snowboard.
sunseeker
sunseeker
QLD
1203 posts
QLD, 1203 posts
2 May 2007 5:50pm
Ask him if his skateboard has fins...
meerkat
meerkat
WA
644 posts
WA, 644 posts
2 May 2007 4:01pm
or you could try just using the fins and getting rid of the board.
TheMedic
TheMedic
WA
153 posts
WA, 153 posts
2 May 2007 7:20pm
Good break down of the boards Kitehard. Very informative. I wondered alot about all that stuff thanks for clearing it up.
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