Speed kiting screwed by ISAF

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cRAZY Canuk
cRAZY Canuk
NSW
2528 posts
NSW, 2528 posts
21 Nov 2008 5:01pm
The controversy over whether kite boarding is sailing has been settled; it isn't. At least that's what the ISAF decided at its November Conference. So, although the World Speed Sailing Record Council today ratified Sebastien Cattelan's record of 50.26 kts, set at Luderitz on October 3rd, it points out that this is cannot be recognised as the World Speed Sailing Record. got that?
So, right now Antoine Albeau keeps the outright record, with his 49.09 knots on the St Maries de la Mer speed canal this summer and it is beginning to look as though Alain Th?bault could be the first sailor to break the 50 knots, with Hydropt?re.


It's nice and all that ISAF let us join and we'll have ISAF recognized events ( kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2352882 ) but why would we want to be part of something that can't even get is own act together. They've done a bang up job of screwing over the multihull guys and now they figure they'll pick on us.

GREAT, can't wait
MagicMike
MagicMike
WA
210 posts
WA, 210 posts
21 Nov 2008 5:34pm
i recon the ISAF is just having a tantrum that a sport which is 10 years old got to 50kts quicker than sailing, and using gear priced around $2000 as opposed to a carbon fibre cat with 2000 sponsers
kitecrazzzy
kitecrazzzy
WA
2184 posts
WA, 2184 posts
21 Nov 2008 6:56pm
Where does ISAF get money from if people are on <$4000 worth of gear?
lostinlondon
lostinlondon
VIC
1159 posts
VIC, 1159 posts
21 Nov 2008 9:16pm
mick91 said...

i recon the ISAF is just having a tantrum that a sport which is 10 years old got to 50kts quicker than sailing, and using gear priced around $2000 as opposed to a carbon fibre cat with 2000 sponsers



I reckon the custom kite and board the guys use for speed records might add up to a bit more than $2000.....
kitecrazzzy
kitecrazzzy
WA
2184 posts
WA, 2184 posts
21 Nov 2008 7:45pm
pfft, the money is peanuts comparative to that spent by the yachts
lostinlondon
lostinlondon
VIC
1159 posts
VIC, 1159 posts
21 Nov 2008 9:53pm
kitecrazzzy said...

pfft, the money is peanuts comparative to that spent by the yachts


Fair deuce, but the point I was trying to make was that the guys setting speed records on a kite aren't exactly riding off the shelf standard gear...
sofled
sofled
WA
53 posts
WA, 53 posts
21 Nov 2008 9:31pm
thats a real screw around,
how are we that much different that we cant be recognised, they allow wind surfing and they dont spend too much more money on gear then us.
so if they did recognise kitesurfing as an isaf sport would that mean my sailnig insurance would cover me in kiting.... be pritty good.
cRAZY Canuk
cRAZY Canuk
NSW
2528 posts
NSW, 2528 posts
22 Nov 2008 12:32am
sofled said...
would that mean my sailnig insurance would cover me in kiting.... be pritty good


LOL, I wish! The cover you get though Sailing NSW/Aus is pretty good. I've still got it for my offshore sailing stuff but it's looking like I'm not sailing for the next year or so.

Bit of a bummer.
cRAZY Canuk
cRAZY Canuk
NSW
2528 posts
NSW, 2528 posts
22 Nov 2008 12:36am
kitecrazzzy said...

pfft, the money is peanuts comparative to that spent by the yachts


The money that ISAF collects is generally not from the "yachts" themselves, but bicariusly though Yacht Clubs and sponsers.

Though I can tell you now that the average Farr 40 campain doing the world championships will burn though around 200K per year. How many kites can you buy with that .
cRAZY Canuk
cRAZY Canuk
NSW
2528 posts
NSW, 2528 posts
22 Nov 2008 12:40am
lostinlondon said...

kitecrazzzy said...

pfft, the money is peanuts comparative to that spent by the yachts


Fair deuce, but the point I was trying to make was that the guys setting speed records on a kite aren't exactly riding off the shelf standard gear...


Ha, the only thing their riding that would cost that much extra would be the boards, which means there spending around 5-7k (max.) on boards instead of 1k.

As I said on Kite forum ISAF tends to screw over anything they don't understand

swoosh
swoosh
QLD
1929 posts
QLD, 1929 posts
22 Nov 2008 9:35am
I think that ISAF need to make a record for 'outright fastests wind powered craft'. Which would be the fairest solution, and properly recognise kiters as the current record holders on water for a wind powered craft.

However, a lot of you guys have unintentionally justified what the ISAF has said.

Thread title "Speed Kiting", not sailing.

1st post, "ISAF is just having a tantrum that a sport which is 10 years old got to 50kts quicker than sailing", do you consider yourselves sailers?

Could go on.

Seems like a lot of kiters only want to be considered sailers when theres a 'sailing' record for grabs.

cRAZY Canuk
cRAZY Canuk
NSW
2528 posts
NSW, 2528 posts
22 Nov 2008 5:22pm
swoosh said...
do you consider yourselves sailers?


I've been sailing pretty much most of my life and started kiting 3 years ago, I consider kiting as sailing.
TornadoALIVE
TornadoALIVE
NSW
45 posts
NSW, 45 posts
26 Nov 2008 3:48pm
Is a kite board sailing - Yes
Is a kite board a boat - No

Is a windsurfer sailing - Yes
Is a windsurfer a boat - No

Is this a sailing speed record - Yes
Is this a sailing boat record - No

If windsurfers and sail boats don't like the fact that a kite board holds the record...... Go out and beat it. the 50 knot mark belongs to the kites.

PS - I do not Kite
sunseeker
sunseeker
QLD
1203 posts
QLD, 1203 posts
26 Nov 2008 3:03pm
From the IKA website:

The International Kiteboarding Association is the ISAF approved world governing body for the sport of Kiteboarding.

internationalkiteboarding.org/

Monday, 24 November 2008 11:29

The International Speed WIndsurfing Class (ISWC) and the International Kiteboarding Class Associstion (IKA) officially acknowledge kiteboarders as rightful speed sailing outright world record holders. Kiteboards fully qualify under the ISAF Equipment Rules of Sailing and the WSSRC rulebook for the outright record.

Although the WSSRC feels to be bound by an ISAF policy from former years, when kiteboarding was neither compliant with the Equipment Rules of Sailing nor being an ISAF international class, the only possible conclusion under the actual rule situation and in the spirit of true sportsmanship is to acknowledge the performances of Alexandre Caizergues, Robert Douglas and Sebastien Cattelan, all with runs of more than 50 knots during this years Luderitz Speed Challenge as the speed sailing outright record.

We have been consulted by WSSRC and ISAF to help and try resolve the issue and ensure good sportsmanship is uphelp.

Wet Willy
Wet Willy
TAS
2317 posts
TAS, 2317 posts
26 Nov 2008 4:26pm
(this is from the same topic on the windsurf forum)

Let's look at it another way:

If you took a fully-rigged windsurf sail, detached it from the mastfoot, and somehow "flew" it up in the air on 20 metre lines, so it dragged you along below...is that sailing?

If you took a kitesurf kite without lines, fastened one corner of the leading edge directly to a board, and put a boom around it and rode the board like a windsurfer...is that kiting?

A sail or a kite can be made of carbon or cloth or plastic or even wood, and can come in all manner of crazy shapes, but it's still clear what is a sail is and what is a kite.

So kites can have the world speed kiting record and windsurfers can have the world speed sailing record! Hurrah!
sunseeker
sunseeker
QLD
1203 posts
QLD, 1203 posts
26 Nov 2008 4:00pm
I don't think that a kite is a sail either but that is not the object of the exercise. The object is to be propelled across the surface of water under the power of wind i.e. sailing.
asybarite
asybarite
NSW
41 posts
NSW, 41 posts
26 Nov 2008 5:20pm
the perils of windless days ... ambling thru obscure posts I find a NEW WORD (to me anyway). I think crazy Canuk may have had a misspelling in one of his posts, hopefully I've assumed it was this word 'bifarious' ......which drove me to seek the meaning ..... oh! blow wind, blow

bi#8901;far#8901;i#8901;ous [bahy-fair-ee-uh s]–adjective Botany. in two vertical rows
Origin: 1650–60; < LL bifârius twofold, double, deriv. (see -IOUS ) of L bifâriam (adv.) in two parts or places, equiv. to bi- BI- 1 + -fâriam (perh. deriv. of *fâs utterance, thus orig. “having two expressions”; see INFANT ); cf. MULTIFARIOUS
tightlines
tightlines
WA
3510 posts
WA, 3510 posts
26 Nov 2008 3:24pm
So when a yacht puts up a spinnaker (kite) is it still sailing or is it now kiting?



I agree with sunseeker

sunseeker said...

I don't think that a kite is a sail either but that is not the object of the exercise. The object is to be propelled across the surface of water under the power of wind i.e. sailing.


milko
milko
NSW
604 posts
NSW, 604 posts
26 Nov 2008 5:28pm
I don't even know what ISAF means.. and i cant believe the crap that you guys get so worked up over.. WHO CARES!!! its still fun isn't it..
tobes
tobes
NSW
1000 posts
NSW, 1000 posts
26 Nov 2008 5:32pm
^ You need more than wind, dude......

I reckon the word you're looking for might be "vicariously"....

Kiters took the 50+ knots sailing record 3 times. Everyone knows it.
cRAZY Canuk
cRAZY Canuk
NSW
2528 posts
NSW, 2528 posts
26 Nov 2008 7:48pm
tobes said...

^ You need more than wind, dude......

I reckon the word you're looking for might be "vicariously"....

Kiters took the 50+ knots sailing record 3 times. Everyone knows it.


hah, thanks Tobes.

Hit the nail on the head - Always thought it had a "b" missed the "o" though. Learn something new everyday.
king of the point
king of the point
WA
1836 posts
WA, 1836 posts
27 Nov 2008 2:17pm
INTRESTING POINTS ............

TO ME

Fully Powered by wind only and on a body water = World speed record.

hYDRO SAIL/WINGED CRAFT
SKIMM SAIL/ WINGED CRAFT
KITE SAIL /WINGED CRAFT
WINDSURF SAIL /WINGED CRAFT
mONO SINGLE SAIL /WINGED CRAFT

all the same isnt it ???????



Funny judgement to me....... windsurfing suffer similar judgments before the yatching community could understand even the concept.


Silly really But say a hangglyder was flying along the surface of the water at 60 knots and skimmed/ HELD something in the water and recored a time ?

What about sail powered craft on ice ?

And the makeup of the water body this record was achieved on ?????


Ps oh oh another kite mere


cRAZY Canuk
cRAZY Canuk
NSW
2528 posts
NSW, 2528 posts
27 Nov 2008 6:19pm
king of the point said...

What about sail powered craft on ice ?



There's a minimum water depth requirement, came about because ice boats said they where on water because there was layer of water between the ice and the blades due to the heating of the ice from friction.

king of the point
king of the point
WA
1836 posts
WA, 1836 posts
28 Nov 2008 11:07am
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