To help or not to help (kite drifting out to sea)

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Hurrah
Hurrah
NSW
382 posts
NSW, 382 posts
1 Jan 2005 11:29pm
Hey Guys and Girls.

Just a question to all you kiters.

Today I was out on a North Rhino 16 in lightish winds and my harness broke on me. I use a leash that is attached to the CL . Unfortunately when the harness broke, the CL went and the kite crashed LE down.

I was 50 metres from shore and made a decision at the time to head for shore as the wind was diagonally on shore. I was Sure the kite would drift on to the beach. To my shock and horror the kite somehow with a rip drifted in slightly then out to the into the bay.

I then approached a fellow and more experienced kiter to assist. To my dismay, he refused and excused that he could loose his gear as well as the winds were light. Hmm I was bitterly dissappointed and thanked him for his time and headed down the beach to hail a anchored boat 800 metres away

Fortunately the two guys and two girls kindly helped me to retrieve my kite. By the time we reached it, the kite was about 400 metres out and my fellow kiter was jumping and having fun in what he said was too light a wind to help.

Question: Do you help if you are able to or what would you do ?

My belief is if he was unable to retrieve it himself, then at least offer to pull me to the kite so I can self rescue.

He did not even do that !
There was only at the time the two of us

What's your opinion? what would you do
I know what I would do. Try to help.
To not do so is UnAustralian!
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12911 posts
WA, 12911 posts
1 Jan 2005 9:05pm
Very interesting topic, I'll state right up front I'm a windsurfer and very wary of stray kites, I'm more interested in my own safety than the expense of a lost kite.
But I'd have a go at towing you out to the kite if it looked possible, in light winds, that would be tricky.
So if you were on a sailboard, what's the best way to rescue a kite, ride the board on top of it from the side??? I wouldn't feel comfortable downwind of it, or upwind where those thin lines are.
deflate it??? and tie up??
There's been a few kites blown out to sea here, even when the wind is side-side-on, the kites go out to sea!!! (going price is $100 to get somebody's boat) and as far as I know they didn't have any damage. Is it possible that the realease cord sets up a bias, dragging more on one side than the other???? If so is it possible to mount it on the other side????


decrepit
elmo
elmo
WA
8904 posts
WA, 8904 posts
1 Jan 2005 9:47pm
G'day Hurrah,

I too like Decrepit am a windsurfer.

I have actually tried to rescue a kite which went on a solo run. My recommendation to any one else is to stall and park the nose of your board on the actual kite to stop it taking of again. hop in deflate the main bladder roll the wee beastie up and bung it between the sail and boom on the leeward side.

Sorry if it sounds a bit rough but on my rescue mission I got one of the lines caught on my harness hook and got taken for a 15m drag (away from my gear) before I could get myself unhooked. Serious brown undies time.

I have managed to rescue a board though(the hard way)by trying to hold onto it and water start, it's bloody difficult. When I finally got to shore, the brain kicked in and I realised that I could have tied it to the end of my boom with my outhaul rope, would have made the rigg a bit heavy but it would have been a schidt load easier than trying to hold it. I believe the going rate for this is a Carton.

Realistically at the end of the day, it comes down to your own personal safety. If you think you can do it safely then it is the rescuers call. At the end of the day gear can be replaced.

As you were on the shore and your rig was floating away the other dude on the beach made his judgement call.

If it had been you in trouble and not your gear out there he may have offered assistance as should we all should do if we see some one in strife at sea.

Alby


It's all just a minor ripple in the cess pool of life!

Surfs up Baby!!
PsYLoR
PsYLoR
QLD
927 posts
QLD, 927 posts
2 Jan 2005 2:07am
There is a very interesting article in Kiteboarder Magazine Volume 5 Issue 2 on page 68 about that sort of thing....(it wouldn't suprise me if the guy that didn't help you fitted that stereo type)

Its just bs that that guy didn't try and help.....like wtf?
I dont know the location or the full story but even if he dragged you half way, at least thats something......That would have been a lot less that 400 meters if he had of helped you right away (That would take like 10 minutes of his time if that?) From there you could have swam and self rescued no problems, especially with the wind blowing diagonally onshore.

There is always more than one way to skin a cat.....
& definately more than one way to rescue a kite.

I don't think you would really care that much if a rescuer damaged my kite trying to get it back to me. After all the kite would have been lost without their help. But Elmo's way is probably the easiest for a windsurfer.
Victor
Victor
NSW
117 posts
NSW, 117 posts
2 Jan 2005 1:28pm
Hey Hurrah,

That wasn't your kite (white, blue and orange) floating south in Botany Bay yesterday was it? I saw it as I was driving back home from Dolls Point along Grand Pde. My first thought was damn that's a long way from where kiters usually are in Botany. Then I saw the other kite back towards the beach and just assumed that that person would help. Unfortunately I didn't have my big mutha kite with me so I wouldn't have been much help.

The wind was actually quite light at the time I think (too light for me to kite that's why I was going home). As soon as I got home I check the readings to find that it had picked up a few knots. Not saying the other guy was right but maybe at the time you asked it was still quite light and then when you say him jumping was when the wind had picked up. I don't know. But at least you got the kite back.

To be fair if you asked someone who wasn't confident in their ability to help, like beginners, then it's better for both of you that they don't help. But if this guy was jumping then chances are he had the skill just not the inclination to help which sucks. Like it or not people in kiteboarding are the same as people everywhere, there are some that just don't give a s#*t about anyone else (and yes, there are a lot of people like this in Australia).
fingers
fingers
WA
74 posts
WA, 74 posts
2 Jan 2005 2:37pm
Hey Hurrah,I've been rescued as well when my cl broke about 300m offshore(cheers Shan).I've also towed people to shore,retrieved boards etc. no different to most.If this guy could jump,then he could of rescued you or at least given a tow.I reckon what comes around goes around,this guy will probably need help some time or another & hopefully will get a change of attitude when he he's on the flipside.If I see some one in trouble I'll try & help like heaps of crew have done 4 me,does'nt take that long & actually feels good to be able to help.
cheers Andrew
Hurrah
Hurrah
NSW
382 posts
NSW, 382 posts
2 Jan 2005 9:12pm
Victor

Yep that was my kite out a long way.

The gentleman was defimitely no beginner. Actually he was very competent indeed. Much better than me.

The other kite you saw was that of the gentleman.
Dolls point was too light but where I was, was just OK.

Oh well like fingers said, what comes arounf goes around.

That KARMA's a bitch.

Thanks for your comments guys.
I just wanted to let off some steam. Good to hear your thoughts.
ben04
ben04
WA
70 posts
WA, 70 posts
2 Jan 2005 6:14pm
I think the guy made the right choice by not helping to get your kite back? Did you specifically ask him to drag you out?? or was that just an after thought when you were thinking what a dick he was?
Trying to secure and bring in another kite is very hard and dangerous with a small kite in good winds, let alone big kites in marginal winds.
Kiters should look out for other kiters and help out when human life is in danger but for a crappy kite floating off nobody should think ( or be pressured into thinking) that they must put themselves at risk to retreive somebody elses property, especially when you made a judgement error by swimming in 50m without.

Ben.

ps. Were you thinking about sharkies?? Be honest.


PsYLoR
PsYLoR
QLD
927 posts
QLD, 927 posts
2 Jan 2005 11:12pm
Err are you the guy that didn't help him Ben04?
It is actually really easy to secure a kite and bring it in if you use your brain........What do you find hard or dangerous?
Anyway he still could have dragged him out to the kite so Hurrah could self rescue could he not?
Hurrah
Hurrah
NSW
382 posts
NSW, 382 posts
3 Jan 2005 11:03am
guys,

No Ben wasn't the kind gentleman

I asked for help but wasn't specific about dragging.
Maybe I should be more specific.
bondo
bondo
QLD
699 posts
QLD, 699 posts
3 Jan 2005 10:03am

actually, i have seen a rescue go wrong. a (competent) fellow here chased a stray kite in strong winds, and somehow managed to wind up with the stray tangled up in his lines, leaving his kite in the water, and the other kite trying to launch itself a half line length out. luckily he was in waist deep water and could struggle to shore. needed help to secure the kites though. in deep water this would have meant two lost kites...
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
3 Jan 2005 12:41pm
Better to be a hero than a zero.
PsYLoR
PsYLoR
QLD
927 posts
QLD, 927 posts
3 Jan 2005 12:12pm
Yeah i know what you mean though Bondo its a bit of a different situation if your trying to fly your own kite & grab someone elses stray kite at the same time. But hey he could have grabbed someone else and dragged them out to the stray kite, he was silly to try and do it on his own espescially in stronger winds.
This is such a touchy subject isn't it.......I know its all very well to say he coulda done this or that, but its different when the pressure is on & you need to make a split second decision. Thats why this forum is so good, we can all learn from these experiences.
RayQ
RayQ
WA
638 posts
WA, 638 posts
3 Jan 2005 12:43pm
Unless I knew the guy who lost the kite, I wouldnt try to rescue it, look after the kiter,but its his resposebillity to look after the kite.
You can get into a real mess trying drag a kite into shore, its not worth the risk. tough bicys mate, this has nothing to do with beeing un Australian, save it on shore or from a boat, which can be hard enough but stay away from a drifting kite.

Ray
ben04
ben04
WA
70 posts
WA, 70 posts
3 Jan 2005 1:14pm
So Psylor, now that you have contradicted yourself please explain to me and everybody else how,if I "used my brain"(??), I could safely rescue another kite without endangering my self or my equipment?
Also you wish to know what I find hard or dangerous about it, Well...hmm..let me think, I'll start with 4x28m lines floating in the water, besides the obvious risk of being tangled, those lines and bar create alot of drag to try and pull through the water. Last time I checked I hand two hands, generally most kiters I know need both hands to fly their kites, so one hand on rescued kite and one hand on bar, my clever friend is indeed hard. Now add the line and bar drag mentioned earlier. Now try and work the large kite enough in the light winds to get up on your board and plaining( dont forget one hand on the kite and one on the bar). Other option is you expect old mate rescuer to body drag out, sort out the kite, then try and bodydrag himself and the kite, bar and ,lines back in.
Psylor you must be good mate because in my opinion this kind of rescue is both very hard and dangerous.
Ben
PsYLoR
PsYLoR
QLD
927 posts
QLD, 927 posts
3 Jan 2005 7:21pm
Ok well if your hooked in you only need one hand on the bar to control your kite to be able get up on your board, it is not hard to fly with one hand it just takes a little technique.

But why do it the hard way?

You can lay down on your board like your body dragging just lean on the edge of the board. So if your going with your left hand in front you would steer the kite with your left hand while laying on the board & leaning to give it a bit of an edge (using your left elbow) & just take it slow, you be surprised how much speed you can get. This leaves your right hand free to hold onto either the LE of the stray kite or one of the stray kites lines. Why make it hard on yourself trying to hold onto a stray kite & stand up on your board at the same time, unless you know you can do it.

As an example I would approach the stray kite bar from upwind on an angle. If its a Slingshot you would grab the OH **** handle at the bar and only hold onto this. (So your only holding onto one line from the stray kite) the kite lines go uneven and the power is taken out of the stray kite and you can start to drag it. With that one line in your right hand you can hook it over your right shoulder and hold the line under you right hand which can now be placed on the bar. So your laying on your board using your left elbow & weight to lean & give an edge & now you've got 2 hands on the bar to steer your own kite. There is no chance of the stray kite taking off as the lines are all uneven and if anything does go wrong at this stage the single line is on the downwind side of your body and you can just let it go and start again. As i said just take it slow so there isn't much pressure from dragging the stray kite through the water & you eventually get to shore.

Laying on your board is a great deal easier than trying to stand up & get planning especially with another kite & lines dragging in the water behind you.

Other option is for two people on one kite to drag out to the stray kite and one of those people perform a self rescue while the other stays nearby with his kite for safety. Or one guy could pack up the stray kite completely & then you both body drag off one kite back to shore.

I hope i explained that right & it makes sense this time
ben04
ben04
WA
70 posts
WA, 70 posts
3 Jan 2005 6:06pm
Ok fair enough, it still seems complicated though. Complicated enough that, in my opinion, it would unresonable to expect a stranger to try and perform this act of kitesurfing wizardry. Not saying it should not be done if the rescuer wants to but if he/she does not want to, then that choice should be fully respected.
Im spent.
Ben.
Hurrah
Hurrah
NSW
382 posts
NSW, 382 posts
3 Jan 2005 9:37pm
Thanks all for your comments.

RayQ,
The unAustralian part is the not helping part.(Dragging me out!)
Rescuing the kite by himself would be difficult at best as Psylor mentioned.

All I ask is help to get me there Period.
I myself could not recuse the kite by myself but I would drag the second person out with me and stay to keep him company as well as for his/her safety.

Lets leave this issue behind us and wish for good winds for all.

LouD
LouD
WA
642 posts
WA, 642 posts
3 Jan 2005 7:08pm
Hook the line/s of an unsecured kite over your shoulder?!!
You're crazy! I wouldn't even do this for my best friends' kite!

The only way I would consider dragging in a wayward kite is staying as far away from the lines as possible , deflating leading edge and dragging it by the tip. Im not sure whether id risk my kite and limbs in flukey winds though!
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
4 Jan 2005 4:55pm
I was lucky enough to have my kite rescued yesterday at Mullaloo (see other post).
The kite carried downwind about 200m very quickly and into another take-off zone. The kite was holding shape and lifting off the water now and then. I may be a newbie but to me this looked a pretty dodgy prospect. To be honest I wouldn't have blamed anyone for not trying to help and would have been disapointed (not to mention broke) but not angry.
I was just lucky the bloke who helped new what he was doing (approaching my kite several times from upwind for a start) and was prepeared to risk himself for someone else.
Cheers,

Getfunky
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
4 Jan 2005 7:10pm
Howdy Hurrah,
Your problem escalated when you made the decision to abandon your kite. You were a piddly 50 metres from shore (the length of a swimming pool) and you choose to bail. You say the wind was "diagonally onshore",if that was correct,then the kite would have eventually dragged you into the beach.
But anyway,everything was cool in the end.
Hurrah
Hurrah
NSW
382 posts
NSW, 382 posts
5 Jan 2005 9:27am
Waveslave,

I did attempt to chase the bar and kite but was working against the odds. The leash line and bar caused a bias on the kite and it was NOT coming to shore. Also I don't know about you but if someone has a good head start on you (50 metres) I couldn't chase it down. I'm an average swimmer and can probably do a K at a normal pace but to chase a kite that has caught the wind, not a chance. Thorpedo I'm not.

All is well that ends well and we keep on kiting.
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