Tuning PL Venom

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
Juddy
Juddy
WA
1103 posts
WA, 1103 posts
1 Jun 2007 11:49am
Any tips on tuning a PL Venom 13, mark 1 please.

I'm about 85kg @ the moment, ride an RX 145.

If any experienced PL Venom or other foil fliers could make some suggestions as to how I might be able to tune my kiter it would be greatly appreciated.

This is a legitimate question - serious contributions or suggestions please.

Juddy.
mtcan
mtcan
QLD
251 posts
QLD, 251 posts
1 Jun 2007 6:48pm
try arcusers .com or try Lachlan from kitepower Newcastle aka Mr float
tobes
tobes
NSW
1000 posts
NSW, 1000 posts
1 Jun 2007 7:32pm
In the interest of geeking things up and kicking off another epic doona love/hate thread, here's a huge cut and paste job from the foilzone arcusers files...

A list of all the mods you can do to your venom....

SFS MOD ("SHORTEN FRONT STRAP"), ON VENOM 1 - FUNALEX SAYS:

You can easily imagine a profile with 4 internal adjustable strap (a =
leading edge, e = tet (trailing edge))

Shortening a: (front strap)
The profile bends on the nose, the profile less prone to stall, point
upwind very well, more power. Little less stable (but on venom the SFS
isn't too hard, and the kite keeps very stable, no problem).

Shortening b: (second front strap)
This point is aligned with the COP (center of power), so the effect isn't very
important... and it could shorten the entire kite and lower the AoA of
the kite, it become unstable, be carefull !

shortening c: (middle strap, DOES NOT EXIST ON VENOMS, just for the sake of
understanding how these profile changes work aerodinamically)
Imagine an middle internal strap, shortening it transforms the profile
in a very reflex profile...very very stable, more stall, good gust
absoption. But not really a way to increase power at the edge of the
wind window.

shortening d: (rear strap)
The profile of the kite become more reflex on the rear part, and the
stability is better, but it's more prone to stall, and the power isn't
realy increased ... less upwind performances.

shortening e: (its not really a strap, it is the effect of TET)
The profile become more powerfull, but the kite can't really reach the
edge of the wind window.

You can do a mix :

shortening a+c:
powerfull kite, pointing upwind, really stable.

shortening a+e:
less stable, good upwind, good power.

shortening a+d+e:
Really powerfull, upwind correct. stability correct.

MAX. SFS
www.118712.fr/sortir.html
V8 - 3x5 cm-
V10 - 3x6 cm
V13 - 3x7 cm
V16 - 3x8 cm
V19 - 3x9 cm

A new wingprofile!

SMS MOD ("SHORTEN MIDDLE STRAP") on VENOM 1 - GAMELORD & LACH SAYS:

We have been shortening the 2nd braid (b braid in FUNALEX words, middle one on Venom)
in the center of the kite (reach through the deflate zip) and it speeds the kite up
tremendously. Shortening the same amount on the wings (inside of the inflate zippers)
will make the kite turn quicker. Shorten both the center and the tips for the max
performance gain. Everyone here has dropped the Bob's bridle line, it does help but with
the other mods it really isnt that necessary. The TET is a great mod on the
V1's but is the most time consuming to install but still is very easy to do, takes very little
time (about a half hour) and can be installed without having to knife into the kite at all.
The other mods (SFS - wing tips) takes about 5 minutes to install and again, no knifing
into the kite at all to do them. I highly recommend the SFS and wing tip on all the Venom
1's to all our customers. The TET is optional as the
kite flies awesome without it...but if you get bored and want to tweak it a little, put it in.
The actual amount of TET installed will depend on your personal
preference.

BSR MOD ("BOBS SHOULDER RECONSTRUCTION") on VENOM II - BOB DAWSON SAYS:

In the standard production form, I used the kite with the outer adjustment on the
third braid at 50 per cent and the centre usually 50 per cent. This seemed to give me the
the best performance. It gave me good power good turning and good up wind ability. The
only thing that I found a little disappointing was the ability to pop some big jumps. I'm
talking height not length or hang time.

Now after doing the shoulder reconstruction I find I have more power through the turns,
much more straight-line speed, more depower, all in all a much more nimble and
responsive best. I just love this thing. The height of the jumps I thick are at least 30 to
40% higher.
The reason is because now the kite doesn't pull me of the rail and it is much easier to load
up the board before sending the kite back. Also the up wind ability has improved
dramatically. Also I have now removed the Bob's bridal simply because the kite has heaps
of speed through the terns it does not need the bridal to stop it from
flaring. I think without any doubt the shoulder reconstruction is probably the biggest
single improvement that I have been able to come up with and there has been a few good
ones in the past. I now use the kite with the outer adjustments on the third braid at 50 per
cent and the centre adjustment completely let off. The kite generates far
more power with this setup simply because it flies much quicker. But of course that could
be personal taste.

I have not yet tried tampering with the trailing edge in terms of the ribbon idea, simply
because to really understand each modification I need to work on one before I move onto
the next. Lach if you are tuned in it would be good if you could experiment a little bit
more with just one of the mods and give us some feedback. The good thing
about both of these modification is that they are so so easy to do. As yet I have not had a
chance to do it to the venom (I) but I plan to just free up the second braid because it is not
floating and give the shoulder reconstruction a go.

Shoulder reconstruction for the venom II . Simply drag the number
one and number two strap out through the inflation zips at each end
of the kite. Boom Boom job done, how easy is that.

Measurements:

VII-13:
first braid 30mm each side.
second braid 15mm each side.

VII-16
first braid 45mm each side.
second braid 25mm each side.

VII-19 (LACH)
first braid 50mm each side.
second braid 30mm each side.
Juddy
Juddy
WA
1103 posts
WA, 1103 posts
1 Jun 2007 5:34pm
Tobes,

it's friday arvo & I'm at work. My brain is a bit too frazzled to digest everything you've written...but I think i'm in love with you.

Cheers big ears.

Juddy.
tobes
tobes
NSW
1000 posts
NSW, 1000 posts
1 Jun 2007 8:09pm
quote:
Originally posted by Juddy

Tobes,

I think i'm in love with you.



Settle Juddy, everyone will think that foils are gay!

Had a play with a V2 with BSR mod recently, awesome kite! Sporty. Turns super fast and powered. Pity I didn't have to pump it up or repair leaking bladders though, and that auto zenith thing is annoying, I kept trying to crash and it wouldn't!
sandgroper
sandgroper
WA
368 posts
WA, 368 posts
1 Jun 2007 7:49pm
quote:
Originally posted by tobes

Had a play with a V2 with BSR mod recently, awesome kite! Sporty. Turns super fast and powered. Pity I didn't have to pump it up or repair leaking bladders though, and that auto zenith thing is annoying, I kept trying to crash and it wouldn't!


Thanks for the post Tobes. I'll be trying it out on my V2.
silviu
silviu
VIC
663 posts
VIC, 663 posts
2 Jun 2007 11:05am
A good way to have "continuous" adjustment, even when on the water, is using the old cleat-clam thingy on the bar.
I used it for five years on my ARC's. It allowed me to use a single set of lines on all the sizes, even to stack all three kites.
Immediatelly after launch, I was able to adjust the front lines to get the kite/kites stable and achieved optimal power from the "rig".
If the wind was changing whilst kitesurfing I was just changing the front lines lenght to have the right pull and a "comfy" position of the bar
It is not expensive, or difficult to implement, remember old ideas are tested and are always the best.
Cheers
sandgroper
sandgroper
WA
368 posts
WA, 368 posts
2 Jun 2007 12:48pm
quote:
Originally posted by silviu

A good way to have "continuous" adjustment, even when on the water, is using the old cleat-clam thingy on the bar.
...<SNIP>...
It is not expensive, or difficult to implement, remember old ideas are tested and are always the best.
Cheers


Can you take a few photos to show us what you mean
crakas
crakas
QLD
468 posts
QLD, 468 posts
2 Jun 2007 7:20pm
I have tried the BSR and lost bottom....removed it and did the LSR, turns just as well, has a little less depower than the BSR, but the bottom end makes up for it.

It appears to me....I maybe wrong, often am! The BSR changes the shape of the canopy and reduces the projected area...the result is more topend and quicker turning, with the expence of bottom end.

Cheers,

Barrie
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
2 Jun 2007 9:14pm
quote:
Originally posted by tobes

In the interest of geeking things up and kicking off another epic doona love/hate thread, here's a huge cut and paste job from the foilzone arcusers files...

A list of all the mods you can do to your venom....

SFS MOD ("SHORTEN FRONT STRAP"), ON VENOM 1 - FUNALEX SAYS:

You can easily imagine a profile with 4 internal adjustable strap (a =
leading edge, e = tet (trailing edge))

Shortening a: (front strap)
The profile bends on the nose, the profile less prone to stall, point
upwind very well, more power. Little less stable (but on venom the SFS
isn't too hard, and the kite keeps very stable, no problem).

Shortening b: (second front strap)
This point is aligned with the COP (center of power), so the effect isn't very
important... and it could shorten the entire kite and lower the AoA of
the kite, it become unstable, be carefull !

shortening c: (middle strap, DOES NOT EXIST ON VENOMS, just for the sake of
understanding how these profile changes work aerodinamically)
Imagine an middle internal strap, shortening it transforms the profile
in a very reflex profile...very very stable, more stall, good gust
absoption. But not really a way to increase power at the edge of the
wind window.

shortening d: (rear strap)
The profile of the kite become more reflex on the rear part, and the
stability is better, but it's more prone to stall, and the power isn't
realy increased ... less upwind performances.

shortening e: (its not really a strap, it is the effect of TET)
The profile become more powerfull, but the kite can't really reach the
edge of the wind window.

You can do a mix :

shortening a+c:
powerfull kite, pointing upwind, really stable.

shortening a+e:
less stable, good upwind, good power.

shortening a+d+e:
Really powerfull, upwind correct. stability correct.

MAX. SFS
www.118712.fr/sortir.html
V8 - 3x5 cm-
V10 - 3x6 cm
V13 - 3x7 cm
V16 - 3x8 cm
V19 - 3x9 cm

A new wingprofile!

SMS MOD ("SHORTEN MIDDLE STRAP") on VENOM 1 - GAMELORD & LACH SAYS:

We have been shortening the 2nd braid (b braid in FUNALEX words, middle one on Venom)
in the center of the kite (reach through the deflate zip) and it speeds the kite up
tremendously. Shortening the same amount on the wings (inside of the inflate zippers)
will make the kite turn quicker. Shorten both the center and the tips for the max
performance gain. Everyone here has dropped the Bob's bridle line, it does help but with
the other mods it really isnt that necessary. The TET is a great mod on the
V1's but is the most time consuming to install but still is very easy to do, takes very little
time (about a half hour) and can be installed without having to knife into the kite at all.
The other mods (SFS - wing tips) takes about 5 minutes to install and again, no knifing
into the kite at all to do them. I highly recommend the SFS and wing tip on all the Venom
1's to all our customers. The TET is optional as the
kite flies awesome without it...but if you get bored and want to tweak it a little, put it in.
The actual amount of TET installed will depend on your personal
preference.

BSR MOD ("BOBS SHOULDER RECONSTRUCTION") on VENOM II - BOB DAWSON SAYS:

In the standard production form, I used the kite with the outer adjustment on the
third braid at 50 per cent and the centre usually 50 per cent. This seemed to give me the
the best performance. It gave me good power good turning and good up wind ability. The
only thing that I found a little disappointing was the ability to pop some big jumps. I'm
talking height not length or hang time.

Now after doing the shoulder reconstruction I find I have more power through the turns,
much more straight-line speed, more depower, all in all a much more nimble and
responsive best. I just love this thing. The height of the jumps I thick are at least 30 to
40% higher.
The reason is because now the kite doesn't pull me of the rail and it is much easier to load
up the board before sending the kite back. Also the up wind ability has improved
dramatically. Also I have now removed the Bob's bridal simply because the kite has heaps
of speed through the terns it does not need the bridal to stop it from
flaring. I think without any doubt the shoulder reconstruction is probably the biggest
single improvement that I have been able to come up with and there has been a few good
ones in the past. I now use the kite with the outer adjustments on the third braid at 50 per
cent and the centre adjustment completely let off. The kite generates far
more power with this setup simply because it flies much quicker. But of course that could
be personal taste.

I have not yet tried tampering with the trailing edge in terms of the ribbon idea, simply
because to really understand each modification I need to work on one before I move onto
the next. Lach if you are tuned in it would be good if you could experiment a little bit
more with just one of the mods and give us some feedback. The good thing
about both of these modification is that they are so so easy to do. As yet I have not had a
chance to do it to the venom (I) but I plan to just free up the second braid because it is not
floating and give the shoulder reconstruction a go.

Shoulder reconstruction for the venom II . Simply drag the number
one and number two strap out through the inflation zips at each end
of the kite. Boom Boom job done, how easy is that.

Measurements:

VII-13:
first braid 30mm each side.
second braid 15mm each side.

VII-16
first braid 45mm each side.
second braid 25mm each side.

VII-19 (LACH)
first braid 50mm each side.
second braid 30mm each side.




lol.
Is that the short version ?
kite boy
kite boy
WA
354 posts
WA, 354 posts
2 Jun 2007 10:00pm
wave slave is the first like 60 yr old to use lol hahahahaha
Samb0
Samb0
270 posts
270 posts
3 Jun 2007 9:07am
quote:
Originally posted by sandgroper

quote:
Originally posted by silviu

A good way to have "continuous" adjustment, even when on the water, is using the old cleat-clam thingy on the bar.
...<SNIP>...
It is not expensive, or difficult to implement, remember old ideas are tested and are always the best.
Cheers


Can you take a few photos to show us what you mean

mrbonk
mrbonk
NSW
483 posts
NSW, 483 posts
3 Jun 2007 11:15am
quote:
Originally posted by waveslave

lol.
Is that the short version?


Seriously man......what drives this irresistible urge you seem to have to chime in and bag threads relating to foil kites?
silviu
silviu
VIC
663 posts
VIC, 663 posts
3 Jun 2007 11:33am
quote:
Originally posted by mrbonk

quote:
Originally posted by waveslave

lol.
Is that the short version?


Seriously man......what drives this irresistible urge you seem to have to chime in and bag threads relating to foil kites?



It is a secret
If you will find it, he's scoop in life will be lost, he will not have any pleasure, he will loose interest in Seabreaze, and than... the SLAVE will not post anymore in the Seabreaze
What a waist than will be
Not to mention that, he is so impolite, is not answering a PM
sarc
sarc
NSW
71 posts
NSW, 71 posts
3 Jun 2007 1:43pm
Hi Juddy,

Do a search on http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcusers/ tons of onfo there.

On the beach adjust the depower strap so that at max power and bar fully sheeted in the kite is almost stalling (from zenith trying to fly backwards into the ground) If it's actually stalling then it's too much, depower it by pulling the depower strap a couple of cm.

Sometimes the front pigtails on stock Venoms can be too long, you may have to put some knots to make the pigtails shorter.

Best place for the center and shoulder straps (for venom II) is - you guessed it - at the middle. Some people like the shoulder straps tight.

BSR is pretty much a must on 19, nice to have on a 13. There are files on arcusers files section with exact details and pictures.

SFS or SMS sacrifices some upwind and handling for a bit more low end. Down to personal taste. However it takes about 10 sec to do and undo so worth a try?

You need to really whack on the control bar - use both hands push and pull action and the kite is fast. Bar pressure is light but the speed and extent of bar movement is important.

Voila! Enjoy one of the best kites around!
silviu
silviu
VIC
663 posts
VIC, 663 posts
3 Jun 2007 5:24pm
Here is a picture of the cleat-clam setup thanks to Samb0.
Do not forget to rub the rope with wax, for lubrication ad to keep the sand grains away from the rope threads.

Good luck

www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=4602

Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply