Wavekiting Hypothetical

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waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
12 Feb 2010 11:44am
Surf: Beachbreak with long, wall-ey lefts and rights.
Wind: Cross-onshore

Two rippers drop into the same wave at exactly the same moment 20 metres apart from each other.
The upwind guy cranks into a hard, bottom turn and bearsaway to ride left.
The downwind guy holds his line stubbornly while riding twisted-bowel style and locks tight into the potential righthander.
They are obviously on a collision course.
lol.
Who does what ??

(My answer to come later.)
whatthe
whatthe
WA
186 posts
WA, 186 posts
12 Feb 2010 11:56am
Easy.
Port tack gives way to starboard.
Or (via ColRegs) both bear away to starboard to avoid a collision.
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
12 Feb 2010 12:05pm
Ahhhh thanks Slave you keep me entertained

Both rider together making eye contact with smile and try not to kn collide........no eye contact then get the crap out of there and avoid the unconscious dude or dudess.

And the chance of this happening? 1 in 500K...........

Enjoy your sail bud, I'm shopping at Big W and K Mart.

Fat Mike
Fat Mike
65 posts
65 posts
12 Feb 2010 12:18pm
Hmmmm... I'll have a crack.

Seeing as it's no different to a scenario surfers have to endure at peaky beachies every session and the number of surfers crossing over these days, I'd say there's a fair chance it would end like this:

Most surfers are very aware of the pecking order in the lineup based on skill level. As soon as you approach the water you are scanning the crew, trying to work out who to hassle and who to leave alone. So in that instant moment you drop in, you pick up the dude in your peripheral take a mili sec to make the judgement on the guy, he does the same and the lesser flicks off.

Two guys of equal rank, especially at the higher end, would prob hold ground and it ends in tears. A noob would prob do the same and cop a earful as they do in the surf.

But at 20m apart on take off, with most people running 23m+ lines, they would be rooted already...
SammyJ
SammyJ
WA
571 posts
WA, 571 posts
12 Feb 2010 12:41pm
Are they both local's

If they are good mates and know each others riding it could be possible for the rider going left to do a drawn out bottom turn around twisted bowel dude with kite very low. The twisted bowel dude can put kite high and once the pass has been made should be able to ride the right without to much problem.

Best and safest option would be to let the rider who's up wind have the wave. Much easier for the downwind rider to swing his kite across the window uninterupted and head back out for the next wave.
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
12 Feb 2010 12:51pm
I say they hold their lines, they collide they end up in a mess.
They untangle and exchange abuses on the beach
One guy speaks only spanish, the other a local.
The local then comes to this forum and complains bitterly about Euros not knowing the rules.
The Euro goes home to Spain and complains bitterly about localism.

Do i win?
sebol
sebol
WA
753 posts
WA, 753 posts
12 Feb 2010 1:03pm
I say:
Thanks to the lack of death leash, the kiter with the smallest balls ejects at the chicken loop and High five the upcoming kitesurfer as they cross over safely while his loose kite goes trawling the nearby beach for fresh children
GreenPat
GreenPat
QLD
4107 posts
QLD, 4107 posts
12 Feb 2010 3:40pm
waveslave said...

Wind: Cross-onshore


From the left or the right?
Poida
Poida
WA
1922 posts
WA, 1922 posts
12 Feb 2010 2:31pm
Option 1
person going right stays high
person going left stays low
or vice versa

Option 2
loudest ooii wins

Option 3
guy going right yells - starboard - and has right of way
puts in a protest
tgladman
tgladman
WA
500 posts
WA, 500 posts
12 Feb 2010 3:07pm
why was there no mention of the waves breaking point? closest to that has right of way. simple.
harry potter
harry potter
VIC
2777 posts
VIC, 2777 posts
12 Feb 2010 6:23pm
Most likely that one will fall off before they even get close to a collision.

Are either in the tube ? as you never mess with another mans barrell unless he is just riding pigdog style.

However as greenpat asked depending on wind direction ie" cross off from the left or right ? " I reckon the guy upwind should be giving way to the guy downwind "
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
12 Feb 2010 6:54pm
are they locals do ? do they know each other ?Are there any eurokiters involved?
Poida
Poida
WA
1922 posts
WA, 1922 posts
12 Feb 2010 4:19pm
I assumed its a big peak and wall both left and right and they are both taking off behind the peak trying to backdoor it?
Spacemonkey!
Spacemonkey!
SA
2288 posts
SA, 2288 posts
12 Feb 2010 6:57pm
Upwind waveriding is lame.
GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
12 Feb 2010 8:04pm
poor relative said...

I say they hold their lines, they collide they end up in a mess.
They untangle and exchange abuses on the beach
One guy speaks only spanish, the other a local.
The local then comes to this forum and complains bitterly about Euros not knowing the rules.
The Euro goes home to Spain and complains bitterly about localism.

Do i win?


yep - winrar!
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
12 Feb 2010 8:25pm
Spacemonkey! said...

Upwind waveriding is lame.


Really ?why?
graceful
graceful
WA
773 posts
WA, 773 posts
12 Feb 2010 5:43pm
Mr float said...

Spacemonkey! said...

Upwind waveriding is lame.


Really ?why?


I take it because it dosent have as much power into the turns as your
just leaning against the kite doing turns!!

But I love it, upwind, downwind
whenever I can get a good snap
in :-)
Andrash
Andrash
WA
637 posts
WA, 637 posts
12 Feb 2010 6:16pm
If it is 20 m distance, and the upwind rider is carving a bottom turn, zooming downwind, her/his kite is low... she has not a lot of options
The downwind kiter edging upwind has the option to bail out (bottom turn). He is the only one who can do something about clearing the air.

Thanks for asking WS.
kyteryder
kyteryder
NSW
692 posts
NSW, 692 posts
12 Feb 2010 9:47pm
It truly is a hypothetical. - Since when does a cross onshore wind have gnarly right and left walls. - Normally the cross onshore, closes the break out.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
12 Feb 2010 7:57pm
GreenPat said...

waveslave said...

Wind: Cross-onshore


From the left or the right?



Pat,
Are you familiar with the sailing term 'bearaway' ?
If not, it means you are turning away from the wind.
So, if you read my post....> the upwind guy bearsaway to ride left <
That means the cross-onshore wind has to be blowing from the left.
Get it ?
TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
12 Feb 2010 8:01pm
wow now I see why kiters are hated in the surf. tgladman and poida are the only ones following surfers rules. But as a kiter It doesn't matter where the peak is like it does when your surfing so you don't have to read the wave like when your surfing, so I spose you could say we are not really surfing and sailing rules apply. I have seen this senario before at graveyards ( the sandbank not the reef) and of coarse it was one of you tourists trying to surf up wind. Luckily there is plenty of waves to go round and the sandbank is only a crumbling wave anyway.
hilly
hilly
WA
8132 posts
WA, 8132 posts
12 Feb 2010 8:02pm
Cant happen in Perth there are no waves
Mister Dugong
Mister Dugong
368 posts
368 posts
12 Feb 2010 8:03pm
ok waveslave is from w.a.
so the wind is south west.
the coast faces west.
the surfers are headed toward each other,
the right is a good wave coz the southerly holds the barrel open a bit,
the left is section heaven,
but they are too close at the peak and are fcd, maybe...., so maybe the other hypothetical is they are a bit further apart and heading for a close out....which one slave?,

I have noticed when i paddle surf metro i can bottom turn between lids, snap before mals, tube ride over bailers and air into a pack of duck diving hoots, and there is no rule for crossovers on a a close out except maybe he/ her who intends to go bigger gets write, or they who compromise, but thats not a clear rule.
but when i paddle surf country i would fade more and err to caution.

kites hmm starboard has write is also down wind so goes right...upwind in this case..hmm

I dont know..lucky i cant wave ride yet eh?
In the city...know how to party...keep it rockin, keep it rockin.




TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
12 Feb 2010 8:05pm
hilly said...

Cant happen in Perth there are no waves

25 knots and not a hint of swell at graveyards today hilly gota love the chop though
TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
12 Feb 2010 8:35pm
ps hilly that avatar looks pretty familiar no problems with you tourists surfing that into the wind.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
12 Feb 2010 8:35pm
wotzy77 said...

the right is a good wave coz the southerly holds the barrel open a bit,
the left is section heaven,
but they are too close at the peak and are fcd, maybe...., so maybe the other hypothetical is they are a bit further apart and heading for a close out....which one slave?



Well,
I kind of like Poida's description of the wave.
"A big peak and wall both left and right and they are both taking off behind the peak to backdoor it."
Yeah baby, both kiters charging hard for the backdoor barrel...
heading straight at each other, heading towards annihilation.

nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
12 Feb 2010 9:10pm
I'm surprised that there's any discussion?

Upwind rider has right of way, provided he hasn't snaked someone already on the swell. I thought it was the same everywhere?

No wonder I have difficulty with kiters when wavesailing
Brien
Brien
NSW
172 posts
NSW, 172 posts
13 Feb 2010 12:32am
Upwind guy has right of way if both get on swell/wave at the same time. No argument needed, it has always been like this for wavsailors and kiters. Why would someone ride upwind if they could be riding downwind? Strange question.
Poida
Poida
WA
1922 posts
WA, 1922 posts
12 Feb 2010 9:58pm
^^ thats ok if it is a predominantly left hand wave but if it was a predominantly right hand wave, say west coast and sw wind, the upwind rider wont be getting nuthin from me, cause I take the deepest inside as having priority
tightlines
tightlines
WA
3510 posts
WA, 3510 posts
12 Feb 2010 10:19pm
Brien said...

Upwind guy has right of way if both get on swell/wave at the same time. No argument needed, it has always been like this for wavsailors and kiters. Why would someone ride upwind if they could be riding downwind? Strange question.

I've never really understood this either but it seems there is heaps of folks on the West Coast that are natural footers and don't like riding backhand or learning to ride switch so they seek out the rights and kite upwind.

Spacemonkey! said...

Upwind waveriding is lame.


I tend to agree but each to there own and I will add that there is often more chance of getting barrelled when going right in WA in a SWester, even so the two forces wave and wind are fighting each other and it just doesn't feel right to me.

Since the guy going right in this scenario is "holding his line stubbornly" I reckon the guy going left just goes high, gets some air off the top of the wave, then dives his kite back down aggressively (or maybe chucks in a kiteloop) lands back on the wave down wind of the "twisted-bowel style guy" and continues ripping it up down the line.


Spacemonkey!
Spacemonkey!
SA
2288 posts
SA, 2288 posts
13 Feb 2010 1:18am
Not a fan because the rider tends to use a lot of kite power instead of actually riding the wave. Some people can do it ok but mostly looks (and feels) like riding in front of the wave. Depending on the exact direction of course but at least here In WA to ride a right hander basically the only way to stay on the wave is to hold your edge and straight line it, can't really do turns the same as riding downwind on a wave.
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