What kite to pull a sea kayak?

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kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
16 Jun 2006 4:28pm
I have a mate at work, an ex windsurfer whose keen to rig a sail on his sea kayak, but after seeing all the kitesurfing pics round my desk he's interested in the possibility of using a kite instead. He was asking me what sort of kite/rig might work.

I guess it would need to be able to be rigged from the kayak and water launchable in some way, one-hand steerable (bar not handles) and not overly powerful. The simpler the better and something quite stable/slow in the air would be ideal.

The best idea I could come up with would be some sort of trainer/traction type open cell foil around 2-3metre, 2 lines (for simplicity) to a bar with a quick release loop (or winchard) attached to a waist harness that he could wear over the top of the waterproof skirt.

Has anyone tried this type of thing?

Could anyone (kitepower maybe?) suggest a particular kite that would suit this use?

How about an old c-quad or something similar?

Any ideas welcome,
thanks,
Dave.

tobes
tobes
NSW
1000 posts
NSW, 1000 posts
16 Jun 2006 4:57pm
Hey Dave
Seems most kayak kites are single line parafoil sleds for going downwind, but with a quad line you can get upwind.
www.facebook.com/BoogieBeau
Not sure what the ideal quad line kite might be, a small closed cell foil? There are video's on the web of setting them up and launching in the water.
There are also some sails for sea kayaks.
Sounds like fun
Kitehard
Kitehard
WA
2782 posts
WA, 2782 posts
16 Jun 2006 3:59pm
Hi Kiteboy Dave,

Boy that takes me back ..... In the old days on the earliest literature before Naish kites were even invented when it was only Wipika, they used to tout kites as being ideal traction for sea kayaks.

They used 5m Wipika 2 line kites back then which were very easy to relaunch, super stable, easy to fly and pulled like horses.

I'd recommend nothing bigger than a 5 or 6 m. Set it up as either a fixed 4 line or two line and wear a chest harness like the old wave sailing ones so that it goes above the water skirt.

Make sure it is very low aspect ratio no more than about 3.5 : 1

Have fun with it and make sure he uses a leash.

Cheers and good winds,

NeilT
NeilT
WA
139 posts
WA, 139 posts
16 Jun 2006 4:57pm
I would imagine re-launching an inflato would be quite a sight in a strong wind!! Airborne kayaker + kayak!!

A few possibilities. The simple way is a 15 sq ft 1-line parafoil which packs down small and will get you moving fairly quickly in a sea breeze with some variation in direction assuming you have a rudder.

www.kite.net.au click on "Parafoil for Kayakers"

I can't see anything else working without a rudder.

An inflatable would be fine and even as small as 3m would be plenty in 18+knots. A 5m would be OK too. It is most likely that he would need to launch and land his kite on the beach for a while. He will need plenty of practice in the shallows before getting into a kayak. Some body dragging experience will prepare him better for the likely situation of parting company with his kayak!

If he wants to get really serious, Peter Lynn Kites have been making kite boats for over 14 years. They are very fast and go upwind better than most yachts. Check out:

http://www.peterlynnkites.com/vehicles/boats/boats.htm

Like kitesurfing, don't let him out in an offshore breeze!!! Good luck!

all the best
NeilT

NSW, 4382 posts
19 Jun 2006 6:07am
Hi Dave

Get your mate to email me or call, we have helped many sea kayakers discover the benefits that a kite has over a sail.

Sorry about the poor photo in this link, but the kite actually works extremely well on a sea kayak, for which it was especially designed and manufactured in Australia.

www.kitepower.com.au/

Kitesurfing kites are not practical to use in a monohull kayak, the side pull would be huge and difficult to overcome, plus there would be difficulties pumping it up, and launching and relaunching it without getting pulled out of the kayak.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
19 Jun 2006 6:41am
Kites have a fair bit of sideways pull, you'd need some sort of fin underneath the kayak wouldn't you? I imagine that when you want to go on a reach or slightly upwind, the kite would pull against the rudder which is way off behind you, weathercocking you around untill you're facing downwind!

How have others tackled this problem? It's not as if you can edge a kayak.

Or if you only want to go downwind then I guess it's not too bad. From what I've seen of sails on kayaks they only go downwind so that isn't really much of a problem.

RAL INN
RAL INN
SA
2898 posts
SA, 2898 posts
19 Jun 2006 9:04am
I met a kayaking couple at cowes(phillip Island) on their way to Tassie.
they were meeting up with 2 others at Wilsons Prom and Kayaking to Tassie and back. No support.

The male had a sail on his Kayak that he demonstarted to me the few secounds it took to set up and down.

He had tried kites but went back to sail. Apparently in open ocean it is very advantageous to be able to rig and derig very quickly.

His thoughts on kites were as protected waters practical.

these are the views he expressed to me when I asked "why not a Kite". And as this was his 7th bass straight crossing, I'm assuming he had some experience with Sea Kayaking.
silviu
silviu
VIC
663 posts
VIC, 663 posts
20 Jun 2006 5:08pm
Best fit for a kayak would be a 3 m Peter Linn Waterfoil!
It is entirely design to be launched on the water: you cast it in the water with just a little air in it, let the kite "float" downwind until the lines are tensioned then the waterfoil off goes up 1/10 inflated!!!. Whilst up, let the foil inflate (that may take 2 - 3 minutes as the intakes are pretty small and protected with valves against water) than it is ready to go.
It is a great kite, and can be used in as low as 6 - 7 knots.
Be careful not to put it too low in the window as, like all the foils, it will fold.

Good luck
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
20 Jun 2006 9:05pm
quote:
Originally posted by RAL INN

I met a kayaking couple at cowes(phillip Island) on their way to Tassie.
they were meeting up with 2 others at Wilsons Prom and Kayaking to Tassie and back. No support.


tony,

did they appear normal or eccentric?

are you sure they weren't pulling your leg?

thats one crazy pursuit!
RAL INN
RAL INN
SA
2898 posts
SA, 2898 posts
21 Jun 2006 5:28am
Pulling my leg? NO
they had all their provisions etc and showed map etc. etc.
they were fair dinkum.

Eccentric? Blood oath!

their route was via the tip of Wilsons prom - hogans island -King island(or the other big one) etc.
longest single section was 60NM.

I was impressed. but I would have thought a support boat the go.
they had started at Tooradin.
NSW, 4382 posts
21 Jun 2006 5:59am
Hi Silviu

Peter Lynn Ltd don't make this kite anymore.
The other problem is that the waterfoil had a massive amount of bridles, bridles and sea kayaks do not mix.
Steerable kites that fly off the wind are not practical in monohull, single person sea kayaks. If the kite is used to one side of the kayak there is a huge tendency to roll the kayak.
The most practical and popular devices I have seen to save the kayaker from paddling are the small sails made especially for kayaks, and the Kayakite that I posted a link for.

On another issue, while the watefoil was an interesting kite, it was not particularly user friendly, it had no safety, took on water quickly, was prone to bridle tangling due to the knotted bridle construction, etc. I used them for a while, I know the kite well. The best mod you could do to them was to stop using them on water and to cut off the air intake valve thingys!

Foils do not collapse or tip collapse if they are held at the edge of the wind window, well not modern ones at least.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack




quote:
Originally posted by silviu

Best fit for a kayak would be a 3 m Peter Linn Waterfoil!
It is entirely design to be launched on the water: you cast it in the water with just a little air in it, let the kite "float" downwind until the lines are tensioned then the waterfoil off goes up 1/10 inflated!!!. Whilst up, let the foil inflate (that may take 2 - 3 minutes as the intakes are pretty small and protected with valves against water) than it is ready to go.
It is a great kite, and can be used in as low as 6 - 7 knots.
Be careful not to put it too low in the window as, like all the foils, it will fold.

Good luck


kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
21 Jun 2006 9:02pm
Thanks for the tips everyone.. will pass on the links/info. Due to overheating issues and a serious spyware infestation I've been off the air since posting. Beat the spyware today (maybe 8 hours later ) and I've got the thing running beside me with the case open and a pedestal fan lying next to it on full - not the most fun solution in winter!

Anyway sounds like either a sled or maybe just a sail would be the go. I'd be interested to see what angle you could 'edge' off a parafoil comfortably - I'm guessing it wouldn't be much, something like a broad reach if you were lucky?

I guess I'll just tell him the best thing would be to sell the kayak and get some kite surfing lessons in spring. I already emailed him this vid to show the difference:
http://media.bestkiteboarding.com/videos/the_andy_show.wmv
NSW, 4382 posts
22 Jun 2006 4:48am
Thats pretty funny Dave!!!
Andy goes off in that vid and it looks like the sea kayaker never got past the break?

The biggest problems for a sea kayaker is that they are sitting, the kayak can roll easily, side pull will tip the kayak and pull the kayaker out, steering a kite powerful enough to pull the kayak is difficult from a sitting position, and if anything goes wrong like the kite luffs then powers up, crashes and relaunches suddenly, or will not relaunch, etc, etc, it is going to be a bad day of kite sea kayaking.

Single line, minimal bridal sleds have proven to be the easiest and safest power source.

The whole idea of using a sail or a kite in a sea kayak is to give the kayaker some rest to eat, and make good distances without using a lot of energy.

The best angle they can achieve, even with sails is probably about 30 degrees off the wind, unless outriggers are fitted.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack
bushman75
bushman75
WA
3 posts
WA, 3 posts
22 Jun 2006 9:41am
re the Bass Strait discussion earlier in this topic...

Bass Strait is crossed by the "eastern route" (via Flinders Island) by at least a couple of kayaking parties each year. The longest hop is 33nm (not 60nm as previously stated), or about 60km. Amongst the paddlers who choose to use wind assistance, sails are more common than kites.

There has been one crossing of Bass Strait 'direct', non-stop in a sea kayak, in 2003. This is 220km (120nm) by the shortest route, and was done in 35 hours with no wind assistance. Rough details are here:
www.AndrewMcAuley.com/kayaking.html
Gstar
Gstar
WA
391 posts
WA, 391 posts
22 Jun 2006 9:53am
All i wanna say is that if you wanna pull something safely (land, sea .......moon!)..then get youself a NASA WING kite. Designed by NASA to pull things! Fantastic pull, simple set up, and free plans available on the net, so yo can build it for nixy. Hope this helps
RAL INN
RAL INN
SA
2898 posts
SA, 2898 posts
22 Jun 2006 1:31pm
Oops must have misheard him on the NMbit but 60 is OK
I always get mixed up between King and flinders Island.
Maybe I should get a job as navigator on the Tassie ferry.
Uncle Rico
Uncle Rico
NSW
200 posts
NSW, 200 posts
22 Jun 2006 2:34pm
that best vid is way cool - is that the guy that rides hooked in heaps? looks like it...

looks way better and smoother than all the handle passes
qfmike737
qfmike737
QLD
398 posts
QLD, 398 posts
22 Jun 2006 9:32pm
if you are on a monohull/kakay wouldn't it be best if you use a single like sled kite. You can get some that have alot of pull and they are very stable. They will hold the kayak upright and not tip it over. They would be very easy to launch and pack away while sitting on a kayak. they are light and compact. the only draw back is that you would only use them to go downwind.

Go to the Naish website they have footage of a massive kite pulling a group on a kayak with and outrigger on it.
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