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Originally posted by lovey

HELLO...MY NAME IS NATHAN AND I'M A CAPITALIST

Ten years ago i started university and like all uni students i passionately believed in my right to be paid by the government to study, and to recieve instant employment and a massive wage upon completion of my degree.
As it turned out, i worked my ass off at night packing shelves to fund my education, only to finish it and find that employment in my chosen field offered marginally less than i was earning at woolies...

at 22, i started a subcontracting apprenticeship earning app.$6 an hour, in addition to providing my own transport, own tools and own insurance...

At 30 i'm I'm paying off my second home, driving a brand new car, and contemplating buying a whole quiver of those frightfully expensive bows, just 'cause i can...

When most people talk about the appalling rate of pay for apprentices, they seem to forget that within 5 years, those apprentices are the very same tradesmen who are charging you $40 an hour to change tap washers. I know IR is a scary thing to most...but from my point of view, how could any business exist if we had to pay top dollar for every kid fresh out of school. you gotta pay your dues, and as everyone i've talked to about it agrees, if you are truly good at what you do, you'll get paid what you deserve.

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Thats exactly the problem.

No one wants to earn 6$ an hour for 4 years doing a **** job.

So there aren't many skilled people around. What does that do? Forces up the wage rates of skilled people.


Electricians earning 100k a year is a joke.

do we even need a minimum wage... it just drive the costs of goods and services up.

i say build a nuclear power plant down in kwinana. the fuel is cheap and locally sourced. theres a tonne of jobs involved in it. the waste is simple to manage. as a freebie you get clean drinking water and put western power('s-off-we-are-striking-again) out of business

stuff it... why don't we just succeed from the rest of australia. 90-something-stupidly-high-% of the resources, less than 10% of the population. your 30c West Oz Dollars will buy you a family dinner instead of a cone.

There is a cost in training new apprentices and staff. They are unable to work productively for some time and require constant supervision and guidance. The difference between full wages and apprenticeship wages reflects this cost. Someone has to pay. Why shouldn't the trainee pay by accepting a lower rate of pay while the valuable training is being provided. This training will stand them in stead for the rest of their life.

Many people only look at what they actually recieve "in their hand". While I understand that this is what they will use to live on it should be understood that this amount is not the true cost to the employer.

Look at the the case of a person taking home $650.00

The employer then has to remit an extra $184.00 to the taxation department each week as PAYE Tax.

Plus an additional $75.06 each week to a superannuation fund for the employee.

Then they are paid an additional $3336.00 for 4 weeks annual leave (not to attend work)

Plus an additional $583.80 annually for leave loading.

Plus $1700.00 for 10 sick days leave (which most people take whether they are sick or not)

Plus they are paid $1700.00 not to work on the ten public holidays each year.

Plus the employer has to pay workers compensation insurance premiums for each staff member.

So when you look at the amount you actually recieve in your hand, consider the real cost of your employment. It has to come from somewhere. Just like the Dole Payments that some in this forum seem happy to take without providing anything in return.

Fitzy Gold Coast OZ

that might be the case fitzy, but at the end of the day people arent sticking out apprenticeships because they are not receiving a living wage. employers need to look at training costs as an investment, not just an expense. its rife in the IT industry, hiring on skills checklists, skimping on training and then wondering why there are no staff left to maintain that old mainframe thats been rusting in the server room for 15 years. and the only guys that can do it cost 100+ an hour. its short sighted, and costs money in the long term.

anyway, I can see the advantage for small business, you guys certainly need more flexibility. but I have no faith whatsoever in larger companies, especially national and global corporates, to uphold ethical employment standards. they've proven their contempt for their staff numerous times over the years, and we're effectively giving them all the power.

Laurie i think one of your links are broken, i click on this thread and it takes me to some politcal page