hooked in or not on land?

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g-dog
g-dog
WA
145 posts
WA, 145 posts
26 Feb 2005 7:07pm
I was advised this week to remain unhooked when on land, as it's safer - I can just release the bar if I need to (while checking the "kill zone" is clear - I love that!) - and although I'd be more powered up when unhooked, I won't have to sheet in and out against the gusts and I should find the finer control required for landing/launching etc a lot smoother. When I tried it, I did find it heaps easier in terms of control. It was hard on my wrist as I had a long term injury with it fixed the day before, but the pull from the kite was definately more steady.

The conditions on that day were perhaps 12 knots at most, so it was easy enough to handle, but would you say that in higher winds (say, 20+) it's still recommended to have that much extra power from being unhooked while doing all the on-land stuff (landing, launching, walking upwind etc), or was it just the right thing to do in the conditions on that particular day?

Boot note: I'm not talking about doing tricks while hooked or unhooked on land, like the way some people try to talk it up. Just specifically launching, landing and walking upwind.
Kitehard
Kitehard
WA
2782 posts
WA, 2782 posts
27 Feb 2005 1:51am
G'Day g-dog,

That advice must have come from a super smart, super safety conscientious, good looking, talented and hilariously funny IKO instructor midway through an excellent lesson

He probably told you to launch unhooked because you were having difficulties in controling the kite whilst in the chicken loop.

Level 1, and 2 students and even early level 3, launch and land their kites unhooked on the beach, and they do no flying in the main loop on the beach either. After level 3 a student should be fully switched on to handle all emergencies and situations and can do as he pleases

Walking up the beach is OK hooked into the chicken loop once you have the skills and experience to keep the kite flying out over the water without watching it. Until then, not on my watch sunshine!

The unhooked launch is for your protection and mine as a school. If you chose to practice fly on your own, and you really want to launch hooked in, fine, just launch one handed with the other hand on the safety release on the chicken loop.

Hope you get some winds soon and heal quick dude.
g-dog
g-dog
WA
145 posts
WA, 145 posts
27 Feb 2005 2:35pm
quote:
Originally posted by Kitehard

G'Day g-dog,

That advice must have come from a super smart, super safety conscientious, good looking, talented and hilariously funny IKO instructor
... who's also modest aparently.

What about in higher winds? Is it still advisible to remain unhooked while on land in strong winds? Thursday was calm enough so that it wasn't a problem. I'm just thinking about Monday, assuming the old wrist can take it.

On the other hand, the wind range for the Trio 12 is apparently 8-20 knots, so maybe I shouldn't be attempting to go out in 20+ (not that it's likely to happen too often from now until next Summer anyway)

Also Kitehard, what's that about level 1, 2 and 3 students? Do you have definitions for these levels?

I bought that fixed loop yesterday, BTW.
Monkeykiter
Monkeykiter
NSW
107 posts
NSW, 107 posts
27 Feb 2005 6:53pm
Same question from me. I took my 10m out in 20k on Saturday. launched unhooked and it was way overpowered. All I wanted to do is practice some body dragging, but I was constantly being lifted out of the water. I had to drop the bar twice as I wa getting lifted a bit too high for my comfort. So in high winds is it better to hook in so i can depower a bit?

g-dog
g-dog
WA
145 posts
WA, 145 posts
27 Feb 2005 5:29pm
The impression I got from Kitehard was that once you're IN the water it's OK to hook in - How else are you going to get the board on? - just not before. I can't say I've tried body dragging unhooked with anything larger than a 6, but I'm going to give it a shot when my wrist heals.
I didn't try any on water activities on Thursday, as I approached him with some very specific control issues I wanted him to watch and advise on, which could all be done on land.

What kind of kite do you fly monkeykiter? You should be able to get an idea of the wind range from here...
www.kite-surf.com/
Select your make on the right hand side, and the table that follows has every model, with reviews and wind ranges for many of them.
Kitehard
Kitehard
WA
2782 posts
WA, 2782 posts
27 Feb 2005 9:41pm
g-dog is right,

As a learner in the initial stages of getting your sh#t down, launch and land on the beach unhooked. Once you get more confident, sure, hook in but again, as I do, keep a hand on the quick release, especially on a self launch. Unhook for a couple of reasons.

1. Its easier to let go should you get lofted
2. The wind along the beach suffers turbulence and stray gusts more than out on the water, so the lovely steady wind on the water may have a surprise for you and your inexperienced hands on the bar when on the beach.
3. There are others on the beach that need you to take care of them and yourself, you cannot take care of others skidding down the beach on your head with an out of control kite after it luffed, rolled over and shot through the power near landing.

Ask the big guy today who went skidding down the beach and almost took out me, my student and my 6 month pregnant partner. Anyway, he did the right thing by chucking the safety and everything so that he was going to be OK.

I eventually caught up to the kite and stopped its speedy trip down into windsurfer land further downwind. Reason, only one lesson and a wrongly rigged safety leash which didn't depower the kite.

Launch depowered a bit on the trim strap (so that you still have steering) and just walk into the water, then hook in. Everyones then happy.

Oh and g-dog, dont be flying your 12m Trio in 20 knots of wind with a buggered wrist.

Have fun and be safe

Darren Marshall

PS Levels of competency can be found on the IKO website. Follow the link
http://www.ikorg.com/student_standards.php?menu_id=1
g-dog
g-dog
WA
145 posts
WA, 145 posts
27 Feb 2005 10:41pm
quote:
Originally posted by Monkeykiter

All I wanted to do is practice some body dragging, but I was constantly being lifted out of the water.

But that's the best part! Assuming the conditions are right (If you do this, remember CLEAR!) I've taken passengers using the harness handle, worked the kite hard and had it lift our combined 180kg out of the water a foot or so. The only time I don't feel comfortable with that is when I drop someone mid-air and I suddenly get all the power. My ulterior motive was to have someone at the other end land the kite for me, assuming I didn't lose them along the way. On my own (toning it down a notch), the teabagging effect is still great fun, but I can only go as far as there are people on the beach I can trust or I have to self land.

If you're not sure about doing this on your own, taking a passenger might be a good way to increase the drag in higher winds, with all the other advantages mentioned above. If it's an experienced kiter, they can give you some tips along the way too.

Kitehard, I can check off everything up to a G-2 . But until I get that other old rugby injury sorted then get a board, I'm stuck there and in revision mode for the rest of the season.
Monkeykiter
Monkeykiter
NSW
107 posts
NSW, 107 posts
28 Feb 2005 8:52am
Damn I should have thought of taking a passenger! Thanks, im looking forward to another 20k wind now.

About the trim strap. I was taught to launch with it pulled all the way in. So it seems to be pulling the leading edge down. That's 'depowered' right?

I was just thinking if i was to let the trim strap right out, and the leading edge goes further up, isn't there a point where the kite would stall? Like the wing on a plane, if you point too far up and the wing isnt moving fast enoough, you will stall.

Is it just trial and error working out the best trim strap setting for the wind your in?

Am i right or have i got it all back to front!?
g-dog
g-dog
WA
145 posts
WA, 145 posts
28 Feb 2005 6:33am
Depends on your equipment. Basically, if it shortens the front lines, it's depowering, and if it lengthens them, it's powering up.
You're right, there is a point at which the kite will stall, and this can happen to new kites that have been flown a few times, and you trim the power all the way up. This is because the front lines stretch more than the back because they're under more tension, so if you have a new kite, take it to a kite shop that has a line testing rig and they can hook it up and adjust it for you (I'm West coast, so I can't recommend any over your way). I made my own on the weekend (another low wind day ) - it's not hard, but you have to see a real one in operation first. If it's 2nd hand, the lines have most likely been broken in and won't stretch any further, but might not have had that initial adjustment.
Geeza
Geeza
WA
90 posts
WA, 90 posts
28 Feb 2005 8:59am
hey g-dog that wind range sounds incorrect for a 12 trio. i would suggest a 13 - 23 approx, again this depends on the riders weight..

your not going to be doing much in 8 knots..
g-dog
g-dog
WA
145 posts
WA, 145 posts
28 Feb 2005 9:05am
Just going by what it says on kite-surf.com in the absence of any official information from Airush, but I have to admit both ends did sound a bit low to me.
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