what is the best 04 big kite

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NSW, 4382 posts
8 Apr 2005 6:51am
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Grose

Steve you are dead right when you say:-
"In light winds use the longest lines you can and use the biggest board that you can find, work the kite, but do not over sheet it, always give the kite plenty of front line tension, pull the strap in a bit which speeds the kite up, faster kites in lighter winds work better, so high AR is a must for a good light wind machine. Extracting the best performance from a big kite in light winds is a real mind game, and the more you understand how you kite flies, the better you experience in light winds will be."

I'll also add it is super important to have the right length bar, too short can take quite a few knots off the bottom end. So many guys don'y fly big kites correctly. Make sure you set it up right and fly it right for maximum bottom end.

At the Airborne Carpark Clearance on Saturday we have heaps of 15 - 20 kites new and second hand, 2002 to 2005. New 20m's from $299.

www.airbornekitesurfing.com.au




I totally agree Ian, I see a lot of people trying to use big kites on "fashionable" small bars! Its all about the right tools for the job, if you have a 20M Best, North, Airush, etc, you need a longer bar to work those big kites at the bottom end of their wind range, probably something around 55 - 65cm would be best. Combine the right bar, with 30M or longer lines, a wide, low rocker board, as long as you can find, even a surfboard or skimboard, and feeding your addiction is possible in winds below 10 knots no problem.

Good luck and great weather for the carpark clearance sale Ian, I wish I had a carspark!

For those on the East Coast who can't get to Ian's carpark, check out the bargains at www.kitepower.com.au/blogs/news?usedgear

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack
KiteAgain
KiteAgain
NSW
99 posts
NSW, 99 posts
8 Apr 2005 8:06am
quote:
so high AR is a must for a good light wind machine.


This is not always true, it may be true for lighter riders. But for a heavier rider, A lower aspect kite thats going to sit back a bit in the window and not rush to the edge to easily is often more successful, otherwise you find yourself constantly working the kite just to keep it in the power (what little there is in light wind).

One thing people never talk about any more is riding in a fixed loop in lightwind, it make the kite so much more efficient... consider with a trim line every time your bar moves the kites angle to the wind changes, this is not efficient in these light winds, your best to trim the kite right in a fixed loop so its at max power and ride it from there, if you happen to get over done, just unhook, sheet out a little and truck upwind...

Just my thoughts on kites in lightwind (95kg + rider kiting in sydney for over last 5 years ought to know something by now...)

As far as boards go, yep, the widest,longest,flattest thing you can feel comfortable on is the go, surfboards are good if you have any chop to contend with...

Cheers
mattressbuster
mattressbuster
WA
177 posts
WA, 177 posts
8 Apr 2005 8:20am
Finally some sense and truth on Big kites. I totally agree with your point on the fixed loop - its like an extra grunty first gear - Gives your kite UNBELIEVABLE low end.

Short bars are plain wrong for big kites - totally agree on the 65cm or larger call.

This thread is a goldmine of info for Big kite and light wind kiting

nice work guys!

loose fin
loose fin
QLD
219 posts
QLD, 219 posts
8 Apr 2005 10:30am
Was out yesterday with the 17m again,

this wind thing is getting ridiculous.....looks good this afternoon though

and

going along happily at lucky bay for a while on the 136 X 38 then the wind began to drop

Damn damn damn, i said to myself thinking about the big board that i sold as part of a beginners package for $150 or something

I could have really done with a 160cm TT, directional or surfbaord

DAMN

I want it back

6"6 airush directional, red with big fins and a cutout tail

it used to truck upwind on the 10m in no wind, would be great for this time of year

DAMN

Can i have it back, please please please


NSW, 4382 posts
8 Apr 2005 1:04pm
quote:
Originally posted by KiteAgain

quote:
so high AR is a must for a good light wind machine.


This is not always true, it may be true for lighter riders. But for a heavier rider, A lower aspect kite thats going to sit back a bit in the window and not rush to the edge to easily is often more successful, otherwise you find yourself constantly working the kite just to keep it in the power (what little there is in light wind).

One thing people never talk about any more is riding in a fixed loop in lightwind, it make the kite so much more efficient... consider with a trim line every time your bar moves the kites angle to the wind changes, this is not efficient in these light winds, your best to trim the kite right in a fixed loop so its at max power and ride it from there, if you happen to get over done, just unhook, sheet out a little and truck upwind...

Just my thoughts on kites in lightwind (95kg + rider kiting in sydney for over last 5 years ought to know something by now...)

As far as boards go, yep, the widest,longest,flattest thing you can feel comfortable on is the go, surfboards are good if you have any chop to contend with...

Cheers



Totally agree with you, thanks for reminding me about fixed loops. I still have them on my bars and they are essential for milking the best performance from your kite in light winds.
You bar should be set so that when you are in the main loop and chicken loop, the tips of your kite should be parallel, or at least more tension on the front lines than the rears.

What I mean by high AR is no more than the current 04/05 kites that are high AR, and no less AR than the current kites that are marked moderate AR.
Example, of high AR kites Best Nemesis, North 04 and 05, Airush Lift and Lift Pro, Flexifoil Storm 3, etc.
Example of "Moderate" AR kites Best Yarga 04 and 05, Flexifoil Strike1 and 2, North Vegas and Toro 05, Airush Flow 05 and 05, Slingshot Fuel 04 and 05, etc.

AR was over marketed as the measure of a high performance kite. What we call high AR now would have been called moderate 2 years ago, and what we call moderate now would have been called low.

However a faster flying high AR kite, that goes to the edge easily can be tuned to fly a bit slower, and as a rider/kite flyer we can adjust our technique to get very similar low wind performance from that type of kite, by edging and pointing less aggressively and by using a slightly bigger board.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack
sarc
sarc
NSW
71 posts
NSW, 71 posts
14 Apr 2005 11:40am
Don't want to sound aggro, but on the beaches I see a sheep mentality with riders committed to LEIs even if it means having less fun... foils are the way to go for low wind.

I have the same experience testing a Psycho 26m in 5 knots and zooming upwind... then crashing and relaunching with no problem. It was so big, it felt like having a house attached to your lines.

Foils perform brilliantly in low wind, the main disadvantage is the small depower range. This has been addressed by the Peter Lynn Venoms which absolutely rock.

KiteAgain
KiteAgain
NSW
99 posts
NSW, 99 posts
14 Apr 2005 12:09pm
quote:
Originally posted by sarc


I have the same experience testing a Psycho 26m in 5 knots and zooming upwind...


Am I going to be the first to say it....
robbo
robbo
WA
306 posts
WA, 306 posts
14 Apr 2005 11:11am
no, ill pipe in:

Jeepers creepers a 26m is freakin huge!
anything that big ud want a foil so u dont have to pump the bugger up.
26m, its almost too big
Somerandom
Somerandom
WA
28 posts
WA, 28 posts
14 Apr 2005 11:11am
maybe low ar, if your **** and can't ride with speed. But extreme AR (6>) big kites are supreme if you are a good rider. Most high AR kites have fk all grunt and will barely pull you up off the water, but get up and planning and you will be well powered. With my 19.5 contra I can static loop it on the beah in 8 knots and it has **** all power, but get riding mega fast and I often loose an edge, but slow down and the kite is tame as anything.
jags
jags
WA
115 posts
WA, 115 posts
14 Apr 2005 1:06pm
26m i have to say why bother . As said in my last post "when there is that little wind its time to go wakeboarding" .Or do something eles.
At what size does it start to get a bit of a joke ? Or is kitesurfing with a 26m kite just as enjoyable as using a 12m ?
The reason i ask is become i was at the Airbourne sale on sat and almost brought a 20m kite ,real cheap ,but decided when the wind is that light i really would rather be doing something else .

Puppet : i'm sure we can let you tag along when you put it like that, but don't get your hopes up about the boat it only a 17foot with a outboard but it does have a 7 foot tower which helps with the tricks .I will give you a call next time we go out .
swinginginthewind
swinginginthewind
WA
281 posts
WA, 281 posts
14 Apr 2005 1:28pm
Hey Jags, you shoulda bought the 20m kite, they'll get you out in 10 knots, when its too chopped up to wakeboard.
Had heaps of good days this year with the 20 and a floaty board, when others were just tea bagging.

When the arrows are all red , especially in the easterly direction, out comes the boat for wakeboarding.
NSW, 4382 posts
14 Apr 2005 9:11pm
quote:
Originally posted by Somerandom

maybe low ar, if your **** and can't ride with speed. But extreme AR (6>) big kites are supreme if you are a good rider. Most high AR kites have fk all grunt and will barely pull you up off the water, but get up and planning and you will be well powered. With my 19.5 contra I can static loop it on the beah in 8 knots and it has **** all power, but get riding mega fast and I often loose an edge, but slow down and the kite is tame as anything.




All the kites I mentioned above are grunty, they have good power in light winds.
I've just been out in Sydney the last 2 days on a Best BFK 18M and a Flexifoil Storm3 18.5M, and the wind never got over 12 knots, and was probably averaging around 8 knots, I was using an Underground 1.52 and even a 1.32 yesterday, and the 1.52 today on the Storm3, and the wind was lighter today max ot around 10 knots.

I had no problem staying upwind or going upwind, even made it across to Towra for a couple of runs in the flat water over there.

The reason why riding as fast as possible in light winds is best is because of the effect of apparent wind, ths simple way to think of apparent wind is your speed across the water added to the real wind speed. So today and yesterday i would ride at an angle to mthe wind that allowed the fastest speed (as usual), this gave me heaps of power, even enough to do some nice long floaty jumps.

The thing that allowed me to ride fast was a larger board, yesterday I was able to ride the 1.32, but today I would not have been able to stay or go upwind, so I used the much larger 1.52.

Main looped a lot today, and would just unhook when I was getting overpowered and going very fast. I would estimate I was going around 15 - 20 knots in an average 8 - 10 knot wind, giving my kite an apparent wind of approx 20+ KNOTS. The wind was so light it was hard for begginers to keep their kites in the air, and there was harldy any whitecaps or much chop.

Apparent wind is more complex to work out than simply adding real wind and board speed together, but for simplicity of explaning why speed helps in light conditions that formula suits.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack
www.kitepower.com.au

sarc
sarc
NSW
71 posts
NSW, 71 posts
14 Apr 2005 10:07pm
You are right 26m may be too much , that's why I demoed the kite but did not buy. BUT WHAT A RUSH!
P.S. Hi Steve if you are going 20kn on a 8kn wind then hats off, I'll sign up for some lessons with you at Dolls.
Bo
Bo
WA
192 posts
Bo Bo
WA, 192 posts
14 Apr 2005 10:19pm
quote:
Originally posted by Kitepower Australia

I've flown a few brands not mentioned here, and my vote would go for
Best Nemesis 18M for riders in the 70 - 90kg range (board 140 - 160 x 40+ wide) 30M lines
Best Nemesis 21M for riders above 95kg, same with lines and board as big as possible/practical.
North R4 18 or 20M
Flexifoil Storm3 18.5M


Hey Steve, how come you don't mention the BFK. Not good?

Cheers,
Bo
NSW, 4382 posts
15 Apr 2005 7:03am
quote:
Originally posted by sarc

You are right 26m may be too much , that's why I demoed the kite but did not buy. BUT WHAT A RUSH!
P.S. Hi Steve if you are going 20kn on a 8kn wind then hats off, I'll sign up for some lessons with you at Dolls.



Ask some others that were out, that saw me? I said the wind was averaging around 8 - 10 knots. It is easy to double the wind speed on a kiteboard, its just a matter of having the right gear, and not fighting to point too high into the wind.
If you want a lesson on how to ride fast come and see me, its free.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack
NSW, 4382 posts
15 Apr 2005 7:16am
quote:
Originally posted by Bo

quote:
Originally posted by Kitepower Australia

I've flown a few brands not mentioned here, and my vote would go for
Best Nemesis 18M for riders in the 70 - 90kg range (board 140 - 160 x 40+ wide) 30M lines
Best Nemesis 21M for riders above 95kg, same with lines and board as big as possible/practical.
North R4 18 or 20M
Flexifoil Storm3 18.5M


Hey Steve, how come you don't mention the BFK. Not good?

Cheers,
Bo



Hi Bo
Just been busy. Would have gotten around to making a post about my experience with this kite, and now you have prompted me, thanks.
I flew the 18M BFK on Wednesday, you can check the wind graphs for the wind strength, it was max 12 knots, but during the time I flew the 18 it was more like 8 - 10knots.
Board was the Underground 1.52 FLX
The 18 BFK is the best 18M kite I have flown!
And I have flown a lot of different 16/18/20 M kites.
The was rigged to a Best Kick 5th line bar system, and I tuned the 5th line to have a moderate amount of tension on the 5th line bridle.
Kite pivot turns tight and fast on a 55cm bar with light to medium bar pressure, and the kite flies as quick as most 14m kites.
The kite was extremely stable in the air, and gives a feeling of confidence that it will not fall from the sky easily.
I have a 16M demo at Sans Souci, for anyone that wants to try a BFK in Sydney.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack
www.kitepower.com.au
HungLong
HungLong
WA
859 posts
WA, 859 posts
15 Apr 2005 7:51am
I echo Steve's thoughts on the "BFK" as I've been riding the 18m for a couple of months now and WOW! this kite rock's... I also ride it on the kick bar with the fifth line. Have also been riding it on the new "swivel pulley bar". This kite on both setups is realy nice to fly, lite bar pressure on both bars and heap of versatility on the water for a wide wind range.

regards browneee
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
15 Apr 2005 10:02am
Hiya,
I picked up an Aurush 2003 15.5 Flow (mid aspect)at the weekend and have only had one session so far - but sooo good! I am 80kgs using a 142 x 36 board.
It was my 1st time on anything bigger than a 10m so I rigged it up a little too conservatively for the 10-15kt gusts at Leighton, but still had a great time.
Wow what a great kite! I had a ball and even though I can only compare to my Aero 10m (which really needs muscling to turn) the Flow turned sooo easily and most importantly smooothly. It took no time at all to get used to timing the turns etc and laying back on them enjoying the carve. The soaking up of gusts was nice too. I can only imagine the 2004 model is even better - give it a try. Wish I had a 12m Flow now
sarc
sarc
NSW
71 posts
NSW, 71 posts
15 Apr 2005 12:31pm
It's a deal! I'll grab you next time we have a weak NE... Maybe this Sunday?
I'll be in touch.

quote:
Originally posted by Kitepower Australia

quote:
Originally posted by sarc

You are right 26m may be too much , that's why I demoed the kite but did not buy. BUT WHAT A RUSH!
P.S. Hi Steve if you are going 20kn on a 8kn wind then hats off, I'll sign up for some lessons with you at Dolls.



Ask some others that were out, that saw me? I said the wind was averaging around 8 - 10 knots. It is easy to double the wind speed on a kiteboard, its just a matter of having the right gear, and not fighting to point too high into the wind.
If you want a lesson on how to ride fast come and see me, its free.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

sarc
sarc
NSW
71 posts
NSW, 71 posts
15 Apr 2005 12:38pm
Have you seen the naish 50m prototype? It's meant for boats. See pics at:

www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=kitefilm&e=com


quote:
Originally posted by robbo

no, ill pipe in:

Jeepers creepers a 26m is freakin huge!
anything that big ud want a foil so u dont have to pump the bugger up.
26m, its almost too big


jags
jags
WA
115 posts
WA, 115 posts
15 Apr 2005 11:36am
I was going to mention that kite i borrowed a DVD from a mate with it on it .Now thats one fucn huge kite .It was really throwing the cannoe around and apparently it needed little to no wind to fly . What will they think of next .It is a pitty that they did not use the kite they had in the Sydney to Hobart it would have been interesting to see how it when .
richo
richo
QLD
337 posts
QLD, 337 posts
15 Apr 2005 3:47pm
well i do not know but if you weigh 90+ perhaps you should just go home and ride something else. The old light wind kite question. On the goldy light winds normally mean around 12 but that is at the gust. More often than not the big kites just fall out of sky eventually. Good debate but.. makes me wish i was a lite weight
dachopper
dachopper
WA
1806 posts
WA, 1806 posts
15 Apr 2005 1:57pm
What Some kiters need to realise is that.... there is a MASSIVE difference in top end between say a 16 and a 21, with a little difference in bottom end.... so when your screaming for a light wind kite, ask yourself, if your kites gonna keep you up in 6 kts.... it will over power you in 15... unless you have a sheetable fifth line like the f-one M5 21 meter , but seriously...look at what wind range you want first, ie at 15 kts your probably outa controll.... so it will be comfortable at say 12....14, shich may not be enough for a 12, so now you need another kite in the middle ???... or go the 8/9 kt to 17, comfortable at 14/15, so you can at least transition to a 12, of a kite without haveing to go through 2 big kites, to have your wind ranges covered!
ellery
ellery
VIC
187 posts
VIC, 187 posts
17 Apr 2005 7:19pm
Steve,

Have you got any 04 16m nemisis left in stock.

Spoke to Grisham today, he doesn't, but said you might?

If so, what price are we talking?

Cheers
James
[email protected]
davow
davow
WA
17 posts
WA, 17 posts
19 Apr 2005 6:04am
I weigh 75kgs & have used a few 20m kites & most will not realistically get you going in sub 10 kts with jumps. The kite I use is a contra 23.5 with a gaastra satellitte board. Its the only kite which really does a descent job. I'm cuising in 7 kts & doing multi rotation jumps- no kidding. I use a windtronic to measure wind so I'm not shear guessing what the wind is. The only way to get a good light wind session is to go really big with a fast kite. The bigger the kite the more spread with sizes you should use.
NSW, 4382 posts
19 Apr 2005 3:03pm
quote:
Originally posted by ellery

Steve,

Have you got any 04 16m nemisis left in stock.

Spoke to Grisham today, he doesn't, but said you might?

If so, what price are we talking?

Cheers
James
[email protected]



Hi James
I don't have a 16'Nemi, I do have an 18M, and an EH Freestyle 14M.
Also have 15M Best Yargas, 16M V4 new, complete, to clear, 16M Toro1 16M Boxer, 16M 04Cabrinha C02
Several other new kites in 15 and 16M sizes, check the new and used section of the kitepower website or give me a call on 02 9529 6894
Prices are too hot to post here, but lets say you would be unlikely to get a lower priced late model kite anywhere else in Oz.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack
www.kitepower.com.au
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