what kite is faster-12 or 10m in same conditions

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
salt
salt
VIC
617 posts
VIC, 617 posts
26 Nov 2010 10:47pm
May be a tad nooby but:
I have my first race coming.
Say i had perfect conditions, like 22knots.

I am 67kg rider who is happy on my 10.5m Naish Helix.
My mate has the same kite in 12m, and a Best Kahoona v2 11.5m. i may be able to borrow it.

Will a smaller kite fly faster thru the air and thus be faster in a race, or is the raw pulling power of a 12m (extra 1.5m) kite going to make me go faster?

Cheers!



Big eeeZeee
Big eeeZeee
NSW
1100 posts
NSW, 1100 posts
26 Nov 2010 11:44pm
bigger kite = faster
DustpanDaman
DustpanDaman
WA
2 posts
WA, 2 posts
26 Nov 2010 8:48pm
Salt what sort of race are you doing??

At 67Kg i would stay with the 10.5 & generate speed by flying the kite better than being overpowered on the 12m and just holding on.

Are you flying 2010 helixes???
ezza
ezza
NSW
561 posts
NSW, 561 posts
26 Nov 2010 11:52pm
Now I'm no race expert but i think if its either 10 or 12 , you don't want to be ridiculously overpowered, but you want some juice! So in identical conditions probably 12 would be faster but in 22 knots as a 67kg rider you might be better lit on the 10. What boards?
On a surfboard I'd def go 10.
salt
salt
VIC
617 posts
VIC, 617 posts
27 Nov 2010 12:02am
i will be flying a relatively C shaped 2009 Helix (which i absolutely love): /

I guess it depends on wind. Holding my kite steady and low full powered is better than being overpowered with a 12m u reckon?

No surfboard cos i reckon i may lose it (strapless) So i'm borrowing my mates 135cm twin tip. I ride 130cm. Maybe i could practice strrapless more but one mistake it would be all over!
DustpanDaman
DustpanDaman
WA
2 posts
WA, 2 posts
26 Nov 2010 9:11pm
Salt i have never raced so i am only talking from a season and a bit of kiting but i would stay with what you know and are comfortable with.

As you say it's too easy to crash out & blow the race.

I reckon you should stick with your own kite & board unless you have the luxury of time to train with the new gear.

With your weight you should be stonking along on a 2009 10.5 helix; have a little faith in yourself
Big eeeZeee
Big eeeZeee
NSW
1100 posts
NSW, 1100 posts
27 Nov 2010 12:41am
If it's like 20kts with a tt pick the 12m. Is it just a downwinder race or course? If it's downwinder you just want to be lit. You don't want to have to fly the kite. You just want to park it and ride.
WhooshkA
WhooshkA
WA
46 posts
WA, 46 posts
27 Nov 2010 12:26am
A bigger kite will generally 'fly' slower. However a bigger kite will generally also have more power and thus may pull you faster in the same apparent wind. Though the aspect ratio ( and lift drag ratio) and projected area details (eg c vs bow and angle of attack) will also influence the 'speed' of a kite and it's performance both up and down wind. A 12m kite will have more power than the same model of 10m kite and will therefore enable you to move faster as you power through the chop, but the 10m kite will turn and fly across the wind window faster, with it's own results.
salt
salt
VIC
617 posts
VIC, 617 posts
27 Nov 2010 4:23am
it'll be a downwinder and i'll be riding goofy the whole time. I guess it's all about the wind. I'll go the 12 in less than 22knots. 10.5m over.
harry potter
harry potter
VIC
2777 posts
VIC, 2777 posts
27 Nov 2010 11:22am
Bigger kite = slower not faster

this is assuming there is enough wind for the smaller kite and that the rider has decent technique.

A smaller kite has less drag and will want to fly further into the wind window also allowing greater upwind ability or speed.

A bigger kite has a lot more grunt/ torque due to a larger leading edge and canopy etc.... Creating more drag the kite will then have a tendency to sit further back in the wind window.

The faster the kite can fly the faster you can go !!
salt
salt
VIC
617 posts
VIC, 617 posts
27 Nov 2010 11:41am
harry potter said...

Bigger kite = slower not faster

this is assuming there is enough wind for the smaller kite and that the rider has decent technique.

A smaller kite has less drag and will want to fly further into the wind window also allowing greater upwind ability or speed.

A bigger kite has a lot more grunt/ torque due to a larger leading edge and canopy etc.... Creating more drag the kite will then have a tendency to sit further back in the wind window.

The faster the kite can fly the faster you can go !!


that was a suspiscion i had. i have "extension lines" for both kites, keeps them in the power zone longer due to greater arc distance. Keep them on too?
Any related articles etc?
harry potter
harry potter
VIC
2777 posts
VIC, 2777 posts
27 Nov 2010 12:04pm
If it is a downwind race the physics of drag and the kite is negated . But you may still want to use the smaller kite as you can loop or figure 8 it to gain downwind speed, by consistently looping the kite whilst riding ( not jumping ) you can take a more direct downwind approach ie: go straight down wind. This I harder than it looks and you need to be wary of nosediving your board and keeping tension in your lines, you can keep the tension in your lines by making small carves as you go down wind.

This will see you take a more direct line to the finish whilst others tack in and out bearing off the wind covering 3 times as much ground as you are and therfore you will be way ahead, if it's a serious downwind race and you want to win use this method .......if it's a fun social downwinders/race stick with the mob and enjoy the jumping etc... As you make your way to the finish.

I wouldn't worry about extension lines in this scenario as they tend to slow the kites response to turning inputs if you are taking the straight downwind approach you want your kite to respond quickly to the turns loops and eights

line extensions are really only good for increasing your power stroke ( creates a bigger arc) which is good for light wind or for areas where the wind can be a bit higher up. Ie: 10 knots at sea level , 15 knots about 10 m up.
stabber
stabber
NSW
1114 posts
NSW, 1114 posts
27 Nov 2010 1:32pm
If it's a noob question, why worry about it at all? Chances are you're not gonna win the bleedin race... just go out and have some fun. And forget all the what-ifs!
One day you'll look back at your thread and say... "did I write that?".
lotofwind
lotofwind
NSW
6451 posts
NSW, 6451 posts
27 Nov 2010 9:35pm
^^^^^yep,,I think that everytime I sober up,,thats not very often..hik-up
the gibbo
the gibbo
WA
776 posts
WA, 776 posts
27 Nov 2010 9:13pm
ditto loto, should stay off the damn net when drunk
Big eeeZeee
Big eeeZeee
NSW
1100 posts
NSW, 1100 posts
28 Nov 2010 1:49am
bigger kite = faster RIDER
smaller kite = faster KITE

enough of the tech talk....
salt
salt
VIC
617 posts
VIC, 617 posts
29 Nov 2010 12:07am
stabber said...

If it's a noob question, why worry about it at all? Chances are you're not gonna win the bleedin race... just go out and have some fun. And forget all the what-ifs!
One day you'll look back at your thread and say... "did I write that?".



I like knowledge.No harm in that, i will enjoy the day regardless of place.
And no i won't regret asking questions and learning more about kites. I try to learn as much as possible.
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
29 Nov 2010 9:23am
Big eeeZeee said...

bigger kite = faster RIDER
smaller kite = faster KITE

enough of the tech talk....


True a smaller kite is faster through the air and can build apparent wind but if you want to get around a race course choose the right kite for the conditions.

A 67 kg rider in 22 knots on a 10m kite will have better control, better up wind ability hence be faster round a course than the same rider on a 12m riding at the edge of his ability. Also, some kites have better upwind ability than others.

Don't forget the board too. For speed you need a flat board that can edge up wind as well.

Recent races on Botany Bay saw an experienced rider on an 8m beat experienced riders on 12m kites more than once.

It all comes down to rider/kite/board/luck
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply