Beginner dies in France during lesson

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wheels
wheels
WA
204 posts
WA, 204 posts
11 Oct 2011 11:49am
Anyone know where to get these type of knifes?
Mikedobee
Mikedobee
NSW
331 posts
NSW, 331 posts
12 Oct 2011 12:58pm
So, isn't that what caused this terrible thing?

Or what actually caused this to happen?

Or nobody knows?

Cheers,
Mike
dave...... said...

Mikedobee said...

So sorry and frightening in the same time to read this.

I am no experienced kiter, I am still learning, but I have a question in regards to this part:
"the front and rear lines were symetricaly crossed, he noticed it and i told him , it wasn t a problem, we can fly like that, i relaunch the kite."

How is that not a major problem???


The kite will fly with the lines symetrically crossed, but if dropped the back lines will have a greater chance of tangling on many kites that have bridles, especially large ones. You have changed the angle of the back lines in relation to the canopy.
Hope this helps. When learning it is best to fly your kite how it should be flown.


DaGodfather
DaGodfather
SA
280 posts
SA, 280 posts
12 Oct 2011 3:04pm
Mikedobee said...

So, isn't that what caused this terrible thing?

Or what actually caused this to happen?

Or nobody knows?

Cheers,
Mike




"i look back and i saw rené's kite looping with a front bridle over the kite and stuck at the end of a strut,"


The symmetrically crossed lines wouldn't have caused the looping, but as Dave explained, they may have contributed to a more severe tangle on the next crash.
Mikedobee
Mikedobee
NSW
331 posts
NSW, 331 posts
12 Oct 2011 5:24pm
I got that. But what caused it. How can we prevent that from happening? In what instances does that occur?

DaGodfather said...

Mikedobee said...

So, isn't that what caused this terrible thing?

Or what actually caused this to happen?

Or nobody knows?

Cheers,
Mike




"i look back and i saw rené's kite looping with a front bridle over the kite and stuck at the end of a strut,"


The symmetrically crossed lines wouldn't have caused the looping, but as Dave explained, they may have contributed to a more severe tangle on the next crash.



kyteryder
kyteryder
NSW
692 posts
NSW, 692 posts
12 Oct 2011 7:01pm
Mikdeobee, the easiest way to avoid a wingtip wrapping around a bridle is to Buy a C kite and not, a bridled bow or hybrid kite.

If you have a bridled kite then the key is to avoid the kite lines becoming slack, and causing the kite to hindenburg out of the sky, which allows the kite to roll whilst drifting down. Many possible reasons as below

1. flying the kite to far forward in the kite window, and the kite runs out of kite window, and looses wind
2. Gusty wind
3. Beginners with poor kite control
4. Light wind, and poor handling skills
5. Kite is in the water and whilst trying to relaunch, rolls inside out, and shaking all about ( do the hokeey pokey)
6. Kite not trimmed correctly and when the bar is sheeted all the way out it drops from the sky.


There are probably more reasons, than i can think of. The key is to minimise loss of tension in your kite lines.

KR
Mikedobee
Mikedobee
NSW
331 posts
NSW, 331 posts
13 Oct 2011 9:42am
I see. If the kite is trimmed so that when I let go of the bar it stays at almost 90 degrees (zenith), that is a good trim. Correct? Cause usually that's what I aim.

kyteryder said...

Mikdeobee, the easiest way to avoid a wingtip wrapping around a bridle is to Buy a C kite and not, a bridled bow or hybrid kite.

If you have a bridled kite then the key is to avoid the kite lines becoming slack, and causing the kite to hindenburg out of the sky, which allows the kite to roll whilst drifting down. Many possible reasons as below

1. flying the kite to far forward in the kite window, and the kite runs out of kite window, and looses wind
2. Gusty wind
3. Beginners with poor kite control
4. Light wind, and poor handling skills
5. Kite is in the water and whilst trying to relaunch, rolls inside out, and shaking all about ( do the hokeey pokey)
6. Kite not trimmed correctly and when the bar is sheeted all the way out it drops from the sky.


There are probably more reasons, than i can think of. The key is to minimise loss of tension in your kite lines.

KR



stuntnaz
stuntnaz
NSW
540 posts
NSW, 540 posts
14 Oct 2011 5:57pm
I think a divers knife could still come in handy if that one in a million chance of mister shark comes to say hello, if that's all you use it for . Think about it! you have no chance of out swimming a shark and when your swimming for your life the shark just thinks your food trying to get away so really your only hope is to fight ,It would be rather hard to fight a shark off with your hook knife .
DaGodfather
DaGodfather
SA
280 posts
SA, 280 posts
14 Oct 2011 7:45pm
kyteryder said...



...the key is to avoid the kite lines becoming slack...



Spot on.


And one more thing to learn from this unfortunate accident:

if your kite starts looping pull the QR immediately - do not wait

once the kite's done 50 loops and the lines are twisted to buggary, QR will not work.
Why?
Different kites have different systems but QR generally causes a depower line (a front line) to be pulled and the remaining lines to be released.
This can't happen if they are all twisted together.

I am guessing that's exactly what happenned in this accident. The student waited too long to release the QR and after a number of kiteloops (plus the initial tangle) the lines were too twisted and it was too late.

The QR worked to start off with:

"on one of his over-board, he QRed by mistake, i re-engaged the QR with him in the water and he went again,"

But not later, when he really needed it:

"i couldn't understand what was stuck, everything was QRed and nothing was moving"
kyteryder
kyteryder
NSW
692 posts
NSW, 692 posts
14 Oct 2011 8:25pm
^^
Here is some food for thought.

My old divers knife was about 6 inches long, probably longer with the sheath. Could come in handy once in a blue moon. The only problem is it is another thing strapped to you. i prefer to use my line knife which is in a concealed pocket in my harness. Less bulk when kiting certainly is better.
The advantage I see is that if i needed to use a knife in a hurry, the divers knife would probably get used in cutting me loose, as i strap it on each time i kite, and it would be in the front of my mind, as it is highly visible highly accessible, and in my memory bank whilst kiting.

If i was relying on my line knife, i would probaly forget that i had it because it is in the pocket on my harness. I forget that it is there, as i put my harness on dont even think about the knife.

The moral of the story is if you have a line knife. Periodically check it, make sure its there, make sure its not rusted. And go through all your emergency scenarios in your head frequently, so all avenues of safety are included. I.e Quick release, knife, location, water rescue. Etc.

KR
Chris6791
Chris6791
WA
3271 posts
WA, 3271 posts
14 Oct 2011 6:01pm
^^^ +1

Every time you launch you should mentally go through some sort of procedure to dump the kite and know where your knife is. Better still build muscle memory and mimick the actions to QR or go for the knife and cut yourself free.

Dumping your kite via both QR or cutting yourself free with a hook knife must get to the point that it is instinctive and not a conscious decision and the only way to do this is via endless repetition.

To put it into perspective, some research has shown that in an aircraft emergency evacutation most passengers first try to undo their seatbelt as if they are in a car...
kyteryder
kyteryder
NSW
692 posts
NSW, 692 posts
14 Oct 2011 9:12pm
Chris6791 said...

^^^ +1

Every time you launch you should mentally go through some sort of procedure to dump the kite and know where your knife is. Better still build muscle memory and mimick the actions to QR or go for the knife and cut yourself free.

Dumping your kite via both QR or cutting yourself free with a hook knife must get to the point that it is instinctive and not a conscious decision and the only way to do this is via endless repetition.

To put it into perspective, some research has shown that in an aircraft emergency evacutation most passengers first try to undo their seatbelt as if they are in a car...



I remember hearing somewhere, may have been on seabreeze. Each time you finish kiting, disconnect, your quick release, when packing up. this then forces you to go through reconnecting the chickenloop, and visualising your emergency procedures as a ritual prior to each session.
(not that i do this, but the concept is good).

KR



wheels
wheels
WA
204 posts
WA, 204 posts
24 Oct 2011 11:54am
Found out from a mate that most new harnesses have come with a knife checked mine and sure enough there is one there(DA kine)
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