Ok,

My question is, When flying my 9m Naish Park 2014 in 16/17knts. I have to work the kite a lot, and figure 8 the kite, I find the kite is moving forward in the wind window and I fly it below the 2,3 o’clock position. It is closer to the edge of the window. When I try and head upwind I don’t have enough power and have to head a slightly down wind to maintain speed. If I fly work the kite into power zone closer to directly under 12, straight downwind that will give the kite more power? But make it harder to go up wind even though I have the extra power? Also when the wind is up around 23knots is it better fly the kite forward in the window or closer to the centre of the window? When I park the kite where should I park it? at 45 degrees to the water at 1, 2 or 3 o’clock? I'm 70kgs btw

The answer is .... absolutely dead centre, in the middle of the window. Thing is, the window moves depending on your speed and direction so you're never going to have a specific "spot" to keep it.

What you really do is practice kiting a lot (i.e. go kiting all the time) and develop the feel for the power the kite is generating and just trim the kite and the position by feel. That's why experienced kiters can ride a kite two sizes smaller than beginners and point higher, go faster and jump higher.

Gorgo said..
The answer is .... absolutely dead centre, in the middle of the window. Thing is, the window moves depending on your speed and direction so you're never going to have a specific "spot" to keep it.

What you really do is practice kiting a lot (i.e. go kiting all the time) and develop the feel for the power the kite is generating and just trim the kite and the position by feel. That's why experienced kiters can ride a kite two sizes smaller than beginners and point higher, go faster and jump higher.

also just to further on from this good advice is with the "trim" all you are doing is making the kite fly more or less efficiently. the kite is most efficient when all the air passes over the top of the kite. skip ahead to 2 minutes. now what your seeing is an aerofoil aka your kite being trimmed slowly. the white lines are laminer flowing air. now the fun little fact that most seam to miss out on or forget during lessons is that "depowering/trimming" the kite doesn't actually "depower/trim" the kite. you are naturally going to pull in the bar until all the air is passing over the top of the aerofoil again. what "depowering/trimming" does allow you to do however is bring the bar in physically closer. it is very important when you are kiting that you keep the bar to be fully powered close to you and pushing out the bar will therefore depower the kite. IF your kiting and your fully powered and the bar is already all the way at the top, you will not be able to depower the kite (make the air in the above video separate from the aerofoil) if you ever find yourself in this situation arms straight with your ass as close to the water as you can because your hanging on for dear life you really need to head back to shore and get a smaller kite or watch.

so play around with the trim try to visualise the little white lines understand that all you are doing is shortening or lenghtening your center lines and that your kite for example 10 square meters will allways have 10 square meters of power. no matter how much you "trim/depower" i tried to make it simple i think the video will be better then my words hahahaha

Kozzie said..

Gorgo said..
The answer is .... absolutely dead centre, in the middle of the window. Thing is, the window moves depending on your speed and direction so you're never going to have a specific "spot" to keep it.

What you really do is practice kiting a lot (i.e. go kiting all the time) and develop the feel for the power the kite is generating and just trim the kite and the position by feel. That's why experienced kiters can ride a kite two sizes smaller than beginners and point higher, go faster and jump higher.

also just to further on from this good advice is with the "trim" all you are doing is making the kite fly more or less efficiently. the kite is most efficient when all the air passes over the top of the kite. skip ahead to 2 minutes. now what your seeing is an aerofoil aka your kite being trimmed slowly. the white lines are laminer flowing air. now the fun little fact that most seam to miss out on or forget during lessons is that "1. depowering/trimming" the kite doesn't actually "depower/trim" the kite. you are naturally going to pull in the bar until all the air is passing over the top of the aerofoil again. what "depowering/trimming" does allow you to do however is bring the bar in physically closer. it is very important when you are kiting that you keep the bar to be fully powered close to you and pushing out the bar will therefore depower the kite. IF your kiting and your fully powered and the bar is already all the way at the top, 2. you will not be able to depower the kite (make the air in the above video separate from the aerofoil) if you ever find yourself in this situation arms straight with your ass as close to the water as you can because your hanging on for dear life you really need to head back to shore and get a smaller kite or watch.

so play around with the trim try to visualise the little white lines understand that all you are doing is shortening or lenghtening your center lines and that your kite for example 3. 10 square meters will allways have 10 square meters of power. no matter how much you "trim/depower" i tried to make it simple i think the video will be better then my words hahahaha

1. Trim trims the kite. In the original aeronautical sense too, no less. Consider body and bar position, and force required to hold the bar sheeted in at the right position...

2. You get separation when the AoA is increased, and the air speed is low.

Sheet in, increase AoA.
Sheet out, decrease AoA.
Kite is designed to ride at a given AoA with the bar fully in; I assume for maximum lift vs drag, which is why they give wind ranges. If the wind is low, sheeting in will stall the kite as the air speed is too low to maintain laminar flow. Trimming the kite will reduce the range of AoA, so sheeting in won't stall the kite.

This is why "depowering" the kite in light wind will actually give you more power.

3. Yes, thank you. It's a trim system.

Kozzie said..

SibboV1 said..

Wilderide said..
Best spot to fly the kite in the wind window?

Like anything in life, best spot is deep. Balls deep, deep in the pocket, deep sh.t, deep with the Narrow Neck crew, etc.

i heard one of them is a computer hacker and will give you a virus

Is that, Balls deep in the Narrow Neck crew?

NoWorries said..

UNcleHooked said..
9m is for 27-38kn

WTF
Really ??

At 70 kg on a 9 meter 27knots would be close to his max IMO

NoWorries said...

UNcleHooked said..
9m is for 27-38kn

WTF
Really ??

Yep that's what I use it for at my 85-90kg.
If you have to work the kite that much your underdone.
You will find it much easier to learn when your on a more suitable size for the conditions where you can just park the kite. When your more suitably powered the kite will just sit in a good spot. Then as a trial pull the trim and bar in an out to see what the kite does and what happens to your speed and angle into the wind.
When your more experienced you can work the kite and won't be thinking about it. It will just come naturally and so will get more wind range from each kite.

Wilderide said..
My question is, When flying my 9m Naish Park 2014 in 16/17knts. I have to work the kite a lot, and figure 8 the kite, I find the kite is moving forward in the wind window and I fly it below the 2,3 o'clock position. It is closer to the edge of the window. When I try and head upwind I don't have enough power and have to head a slightly down wind to maintain speed. If I fly work the kite into power zone closer to directly under 12, straight downwind that will give the kite more power?

Yes, directly downwind will give you the most power, but that power will pull you at the angle of the lines (directly downwind).

But make it harder to go up wind even though I have the extra power?

Yes, placing the kite directly downwind will make it impossible to go upwind. To use all that power to go another direction other than where the lines are pointing, you need to edge your board. This makes the board act like a keel on a boat that limits the movement in any direction other than the way that it is facing ( physicsforarchitects.com/sailing-against-the-wind ). It still needs to use SOME force, so you need to point the board at least a little toward the kite lines (usually ~15 degrees off perpendicular, or 75 degrees away from the kite lines). So if the kite is directly downwind, you will be only able to edge to about 15 degrees downwind.

However, the kite will still provide the majority of power when it is about 45 degrees downwind (still deep in the power zone, but heading out to the edge of the wind window rapidly). Edging against the kite in that position will give about 30 degrees upwind.

To maintain the kite in that position you either need to go faster than the kite is going (so the kite still attempts to get to the edge of the window, but your speed keeps it deep in the window), or you need to reposition your kite back deeper in the window (sining the kite).

Also when the wind is up around 23knots is it better fly the kite forward in the window or closer to the centre of the window? When I park the kite where should I park it? at 45 degrees to the water at 1, 2 or 3 o'clock?

'Parking' the kite is when you reach a point where your forward speed is matched by the forward speed of the kite. This can be anywhere from low speed (with the kite right out at the edge, or the kite high) to high speed (with the kite deep in the wind window and low). Best bet is to find a speed that you are comfortable with and aim to keep the kite in a position to give you that speed.

Try diving the kite hard to get it deep into the wind window. Use the initial power to get you up to a comfortable speed, then use any additional power to convert to upwind ability. Keep edging more and more upwind until you start to feel the loss of power, then back off a little. You are either going to lose power by the kite getting out to the edge and providing less power (but at more of a forward angle), or you're attempting to edge more perpendicular to the kite (giving less component force used from the total power provided by the kite). Either way you are translating extra power into as much upwind as possible. If you slow down too much, sine the kite to get it deeper again and make smaller direction adjustments when you think you are at your maximum upwind direction.

Keeping the kite at about 45 degrees to the water is a good place to start for parking it. It gives good forward thrust as well as good lift to make your weight 'lighter' on the board. In general lower gives more speed, but more stress on your technique and body, higher kite position gives less forward power but more control. Some kite / board combos work better at higher or lower positions too.

Wilderide said..
Ok,

My question is, When flying my 9m Naish Park 2014 in 16/17knts. I have to work the kite a lot, and figure 8 the kite, I find the kite is moving forward in the wind window and I fly it below the 2,3 o’clock position. It is closer to the edge of the window. When I try and head upwind I don’t have enough power and have to head a slightly down wind to maintain speed. If I fly work the kite into power zone closer to directly under 12, straight downwind that will give the kite more power? But make it harder to go up wind even though I have the extra power? Also when the wind is up around 23knots is it better fly the kite forward in the window or closer to the centre of the window? When I park the kite where should I park it? at 45 degrees to the water at 1, 2 or 3 o’clock? I'm 70kgs btw

Not enough wind.
If kite at 45 and need to work it You need a bigger kite or board.
Im 80 kg and at that wind I would be on an 11

Never launch "depowered". You've effectively lengthened your steering lines so theres more slack in them. You're giving up control. If you can't use the whole bar throw to get a feel for the kite and the wind while on the beach, going into the water with it wont help. As soon as the kite is in the launch position, you'll have a very good idea of the power on tap...