Controlling and landing higher jumps

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jms
jms
NSW
131 posts
jms jms
NSW, 131 posts
16 Nov 2014 12:03pm
I'm learning how to do bigger jumps. It's awesome fun, and always leaves me with a huge grin on my face.

BUT I'm having a few issues.


#1 - Kite ends up behind me, falls in the water, inverts lines.

I think this happens when I have time to swing under the kite in bigger jumps. I'm now trying to aggressively redirect the kite forward, or direct it forward sooner to fix this. Seems to be improving. On my super low ratio beginner/surf kite I get away with this more often as the kite drifts back, but my higher ratio kite is less forgiving.

#2 - Uncontrolled Rotation

I have difficulty keeping myself pointed in the right direction. Obviously the key thing to do here is work on not generating rotation on takeoff, but what are my options when it happens? If there's enough rotation I can commit and (try to!) go for a back roll (tuck my legs up to speed up the rotation). If it's just a little bit, what do I do? Can I use the air on the board to try and keep myself straight? Try for a half rotation and land toe-side?

#3 - How do I bail?

When it's all going wrong - I've rotated, directed the kite too fast, swung in some random direction... what's the best option for bailing out? On the water, if I'm confused the go-to response is to let go of the bar, re-orient myself, and try and grab the bar to stop the kite falling out of the sky once I've got my bearings. I'm guessing in the sky I should keep input minimal and keep the bar pulled in. What do I do if I'm disoriented, and the kite is already powered/redirected? Is it better to kick off the board as soon as I lose control, or keep it on in the hope of landing it? I almost landed b***s first on top of my board after kicking it off yesterday!

#4 - Crashing in comfort

I almost winded myself yesterday, by landing hard on my side and ear. I was wearing a hat with ear flaps, so no worries about ear drum issues, but even then my ear felt at a funny pressure! Is this what impact vests are for? I already wear a thick wetsuit, so I'm unsure how much an impact vest would add.

#5 - So what do I do up in the air?

So for small jumps it's easy... just redirect forward as I need more power on landing. Medium jumps - redirect forward sooner so I don't end up in front of the kite. High jumps - ??? Do I wait until I'm coming down before redirecting? Fly the kite backwards and forwards? Helicopter loop (whatever that is)?


So, any hints? Taking off is coming along nicely, but I'm not sure what to do when I'm sky high!

Thanks!
GarryA
GarryA
WA
268 posts
WA, 268 posts
16 Nov 2014 9:59am
jms said..
I'm learning how to do bigger jumps. It's awesome fun, and always leaves me with a huge grin on my face.

BUT I'm having a few issues.


#1 - Kite ends up behind me, falls in the water, inverts lines.

I think this happens when I have time to swing under the kite in bigger jumps. I'm now trying to aggressively redirect the kite forward, or direct it forward sooner to fix this. Seems to be improving. On my super low ratio beginner/surf kite I get away with this more often as the kite drifts back, but my higher ratio kite is less forgiving.

#2 - Uncontrolled Rotation

I have difficulty keeping myself pointed in the right direction. Obviously the key thing to do here is work on not generating rotation on takeoff, but what are my options when it happens? If there's enough rotation I can commit and (try to!) go for a back roll (tuck my legs up to speed up the rotation). If it's just a little bit, what do I do? Can I use the air on the board to try and keep myself straight? Try for a half rotation and land toe-side?

#3 - How do I bail?

When it's all going wrong - I've rotated, directed the kite too fast, swung in some random direction... what's the best option for bailing out? On the water, if I'm confused the go-to response is to let go of the bar, re-orient myself, and try and grab the bar to stop the kite falling out of the sky once I've got my bearings. I'm guessing in the sky I should keep input minimal and keep the bar pulled in. What do I do if I'm disoriented, and the kite is already powered/redirected? Is it better to kick off the board as soon as I lose control, or keep it on in the hope of landing it? I almost landed b***s first on top of my board after kicking it off yesterday!

#4 - Crashing in comfort

I almost winded myself yesterday, by landing hard on my side and ear. I was wearing a hat with ear flaps, so no worries about ear drum issues, but even then my ear felt at a funny pressure! Is this what impact vests are for? I already wear a thick wetsuit, so I'm unsure how much an impact vest would add.

#5 - So what do I do up in the air?

So for small jumps it's easy... just redirect forward as I need more power on landing. Medium jumps - redirect forward sooner so I don't end up in front of the kite. High jumps - ??? Do I wait until I'm coming down before redirecting? Fly the kite backwards and forwards? Helicopter loop (whatever that is)?


So, any hints? Taking off is coming along nicely, but I'm not sure what to do when I'm sky high!

Thanks!


1) jump and pick ur knees up will stop u rotating
2) look at the water through the center of ur arms/ keep ur head still
3) spot ur landing about a 1m from the water and point ur board at the position and just before landing pull the front hand to dive the kite.

crashing is never comfortable , so never bail out all ways commit
Wallis1986
Wallis1986
QLD
130 posts
QLD, 130 posts
16 Nov 2014 12:02pm
When i was first learning jumps the best advice i recieved was to let go of the back hand once your in the air. It will automaticlly redirect the kite in the right direction before you land. On higher jumps if you have your hands closer to the centre it wont redirect too fast. Also this frees a hand up to do board grabs with.
Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
16 Nov 2014 4:16pm
Sounds like your basic technique needs a tweak...

If you're swinging under the kite, odds are good that you're just jumping off the water with your legs... your edging needs to better. That'll also correct the rotation issue.

Bailing should be no more difficult than just holding onto the bar with the kite above you and splashing down, ass first.

God, keep both hands on the bar, near the center. It's exceedingly unlikely you need to be walking the kite around in the air, so send it, hold it there then redirect. You shouldn't be sheeting in and out a lot at this stage.... Just a little one for the redirect.

Redirect is probably a lot later than you think you need. You're not wakestyling, keep your kite more above you and save your knees...

Search for "how to jump big" on Vimeo.
jms
jms
NSW
131 posts
jms jms
NSW, 131 posts
16 Nov 2014 6:41pm
OK, so it sounds like the key point is that once I'm up there, I should leave the kite alone at 12 and redirect forward at the last moment.

Unwanted rotation is due to my takeoffs needing work. I might be able to correct minor spin better by pulling my board up, spotting the water.

I should make sure I'm sending the kite to 12, and not to 1 or 2 to prevent swinging. I'm not sure where it goes to right now - I feel the point that I can't hold the edge any more and jump from there. I used to send the kite too far back though before I got the edging sorted, so I might be slipping back into bad habits sometimes.

I think I'm edging correctly most of the time now (getting some proper height), but the swinging might be when I mess that up. For the edging I keep the bar at half power, lean back and edge upwind, then when I can't hold on any longer I pull the bar in and up I go. My release might need work, but I'm getting plenty high enough for now, until I can land properly!

I've studied Dmitri's video carefully already - that's what got me to this point! It was helpful to watch again though.

Thanks for the tips - I'll let you know how I get on after my next session!
Spitfire
Spitfire
WA
398 posts
WA, 398 posts
16 Nov 2014 9:46pm
I also have issues with boosting really big. I can get really high. But I can never land them and ride away. Im not sure what the problem is. Feels like I come down to fast and just crash into the water. Re directing the kite seems like it isn't going to make me slow down but make me fall faster. Maybe I need to down loop im not sure.
Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
18 Nov 2014 12:09pm
Unwanted rotation on the way up:
Carving too hard upwind with board or body

Unwanted rotation on the way down:
Redirecting too early and sending the kite too low

You *can* send the kite back as far as you like, but it'll produce more of a pendulum up (like jumping off a swing) than lift, and you'll have to have you redirect wired tight or youll get dropped.

Edging is more about holding your line than carving upwind: notice Dimitri just gives the board a little flick before take-off. Wakestyle, you want a big strong carve to load the kite and use the elasticity of the lines etc to pull you off the water.

I don't know where I send the kite to cos I never look at it. I think just behind 12 is good... and when it's there, leave it there.
A good boost will have you going up and down in a parabola... which will curve around with the kite as the anchor point. Going straight vertical with no movement across or downwind is harder to control initially.

Don't think about a single perfect bar position... it'll depend on conditions, kite trim etc. Let the kite fly.

Redirecting will soften the landing. If the kite is "behind" you, it'll come across the top of the window and supply a little lift, as well as giving a little downwind speed...

You'll need to work out your own timing for the redirect - kite will be a big factor. You can do it earlier (or later) if you redirect slower (or faster/harder). Kites with less float will need more aggressive redirects....

Sheet in on the way up and hold it till you touchdown. You can sheet out (then back in) just a little for the redirect BUT if you sheet out too much, the kite will zip across the window and pull you off balance and drop you like a stone... which can be fun too

Spotting your landing is vital because you judge the redirect timing from height above the water.

The basic technique should serve you well for any height.

Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
18 Nov 2014 12:21pm
Down looping will give you a lot of speed down wind... prepare for a fast landing.

Heli loop will be good for softening a landing... add hang time, not height.
weebitbreezy
weebitbreezy
635 posts
635 posts
18 Nov 2014 7:03pm
samokta said..
I also have issues with boosting really big. I can get really high. But I can never land them and ride away. Im not sure what the problem is. Feels like I come down to fast and just crash into the water. Re directing the kite seems like it isn't going to make me slow down but make me fall faster. Maybe I need to down loop im not sure.



Is it possible you are sending the kite from too low down? Starting the kite from low down will tend to result in a flatter, lower jump with a fast landing.
jms
jms
NSW
131 posts
jms jms
NSW, 131 posts
18 Nov 2014 10:53pm
So I got out today, but was having difficulty going big. I think there was more chop than my last couple of sessions, or maybe I was overpowered. Plenty of smaller jumps though.

I'm now pulling my knees up, which I think is helpful with the stability. I only had one properly twisty jump - tried to spin around 360 but stopped half way and landed on my back.

I think with my kite, I need to really yank the bar to get the redirect at the end going. Most of the time today I was too late, and the pull kicked in just after I'd landed. I'm running quite a slow kite. To be fair, the jumps today didn't really need any redirect other than to keep forward momentum going once I was back down.

So for a slow 11m kite, it seems reasonable to need to almost fishpole the bar to redirect for landing? I can't imagine doing that on my 8m kite (ozone catalyst), but my 11m kite (Learner crazyfly moowii) seems to need it.

So things are improving, but I need another session before I can really report back!
Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
18 Nov 2014 11:21pm
Yeah, knees up helps cos it keeps you stable while your kite skills are iffy. Once you get the kite sorted, you can do all sorts of whacky stuff with your body

You don't need to fish pole the bar. I bet my Speed3 21 is slower than any of your kites A little and short sheet out for the redirect will accelerate the kite across the top of the window, giving a little lift to soften the landing... and the kite will be on the other side of the window but still above you, so you'll glide under the kite on it's downwind flight path.

Honest, it works watch that Vimeo video I posted.
Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
18 Nov 2014 11:30pm
weebitbreezy said...
samokta said..
I also have issues with boosting really big. I can get really high. But I can never land them and ride away. Im not sure what the problem is. Feels like I come down to fast and just crash into the water. Re directing the kite seems like it isn't going to make me slow down but make me fall faster. Maybe I need to down loop im not sure.



Is it possible you are sending the kite from too low down? Starting the kite from low down will tend to result in a flatter, lower jump with a fast landing.

Not if you can hold your edge till the kite's above you. Release your edge too early, when the kite is still on its way up, and you'll skim the water... and the kite will end up behind you and probably falling out of the sky in a front steal.

Spitfire
Spitfire
WA
398 posts
WA, 398 posts
18 Nov 2014 10:55pm
Kamikuza said..

weebitbreezy said...

samokta said..
I also have issues with boosting really big. I can get really high. But I can never land them and ride away. Im not sure what the problem is. Feels like I come down to fast and just crash into the water. Re directing the kite seems like it isn't going to make me slow down but make me fall faster. Maybe I need to down loop im not sure.




Is it possible you are sending the kite from too low down? Starting the kite from low down will tend to result in a flatter, lower jump with a fast landing.


Not if you can hold your edge till the kite's above you. Release your edge too early, when the kite is still on its way up, and you'll skim the water... and the kite will end up behind you and probably falling out of the sky in a front steal.



This is all really confusing to me. I think you have both missed my point. I can jump high and release my edge at 11 and get quite high its when im coming down I feel as I come down way to hot and a lot of the time I just hit the water with my board and fall backwards into the water. Maybe im sheeting out a little bit to much on the decent im not sure. With the kite above me and the feeling that im coming down to fast to be able to land the jump makes it very hard to pull the kite from above you and forward.
jms
jms
NSW
131 posts
jms jms
NSW, 131 posts
19 Nov 2014 11:29am
Kamikuza said..

You don't need to fish pole the bar. I bet my Speed3 21 is slower than any of your kites A little and short sheet out for the redirect will accelerate the kite across the top of the window, giving a little lift to soften the landing... and the kite will be on the other side of the window but still above you, so you'll glide under the kite on it's downwind flight path.



I'll try sheeting out a little and see if that helps the kite move quicker. To be fair, maybe I just wasn't high enough to need to redirect yesterday.

I know it works! I did it by mistake once, it felt so good to be dropping fast, then lifted and whisked off forwards to land super smooth. If only I could do it on purpose...

Thanks for the tips!
Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
19 Nov 2014 10:45am
Practice makes perfect
jms
jms
NSW
131 posts
jms jms
NSW, 131 posts
20 Nov 2014 10:32pm
I had another go. Overpowered to start with (more so than last time, but I could jump better?), then switched down to the 8m and the wind promptly dropped! Seems like a 1 kite quiver will give you the right kite some of the time, but if you have 3 kites you'll never be on the perfect one...

I got decent height this time. Keeping my knees up was key to stop myself from spinning around, and the couple of times I ended up spinning right round and landing on my back I was able to keep flying the kite and give myself a soft landing. The times I span was when I was aiming for chop ramps and misjudged things.

I'm also getting the hang of the redirect now. My timing is still off, but I can feel how it's supposed to work and now I'll be practising the right thing instead of trying every random thing I can think of. One time I even redirected too soon, then sent the kite back again and could really feel how everything was supposed to work.


Samokta, I often fall backwards when I land too. I now try to land with the board below me rather than trying to land as if I was already edging (although sometimes I catch an edge and faceplant!). It seems easier when I get the redirect right. I usually land with at least some forward speed though...

I was feeling like you the other day (hard to pull the kite forward enough), but today it seemed to work fine. I'm not sure why. Try redirecting sooner, and generally keeping the bar in so you drop slower (although Kamikuza was saying that it's quicker to redirect if you sheet out a bit). Obviously I'm the complete opposite of an expert, but it seems that we're struggling with similar things.
Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
21 Nov 2014 12:02pm
Good news! Sounds like you're getting there! You gotta punch through this phase then it's gravy.

When you redirect, you're only sheeting out like an inch or so, and only until the kite has reacted by moving in the new direction. If you don't sheet out, you have to redirect sooner to account for a slower response from the kite, and you'll end up with more speed downwind in the landing, due to the kite not moving across the top of the window so much. It's a subtle thing...

You can sheet right out on the way down and drop like a rock then sheet in hard to catch yourself just above the water...

Sometimes (and with some kites) the lift of the redirect is enough to give you a second small jump, so you kinda hover just above the water Flysurfers are really good at this.
nikmcc
nikmcc
NSW
260 posts
NSW, 260 posts
22 Nov 2014 3:53pm
jms said..
... Seems like a 1 kite quiver will give you the right kite some of the time, but if you have 3 kites you'll never be on the perfect one...




Well said I have that problme with 2 kites
Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
22 Nov 2014 9:47pm
Then there's a flaw in your decision making process...
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