Holding kite stable while walking, especially foil

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1950
1950
71 posts
71 posts
25 May 2015 8:42pm
You know sometimes you have to do do walk to sea. after launch or vice versa.. Sometimes it can be long and with obstacles.

Yesterdays experience with flysurfer speed 3 kind bit scared me so i wanted to know could i do something better.
Don't want to discuss about; you have to have lots of space, room downwind, etc.. know that, but sometimes you do not have.

What happened? Gusty, shifty wind. Found it very hard to keep it in 12, while walk form sea do landing area..
Lots of small gust's constantly so kite is moment bit down, then shouts to 12 so i sheet in and lift of ground but if i had not do that it would overfly me and stall & drop. It was so hard that i bit backstall if, few meters in power zone and could somehow keep it stable there.

Many times was with this kite and it's perfect in constant wind, once i did two phone calls almost not touching bar at all.. i know it can be 100% stable, but gusty ****ty wind is really hard to handle..

two times almost dropped in the 2/3 of power zone, somehow recover it by running ~15m upwind to get lines to tension, then massive drift on heels 10m while pulling depower to max. then pulling off just moment before it gets to 12 cause if i leave it to 100% it will overfly me.. etc..

I was on 100% power on trim, because i'm thinking that's how it's most stable on 12 and it would not overfly me..

Is there anything what i could do thinking on trimmer or to keep it at the edge of wind window on one side.. but foils are so unstable there.. Any tips?


flyingcab
flyingcab
VIC
942 posts
VIC, 942 posts
25 May 2015 11:14pm
Don't hold it at 12, take her over to 10:30 or 1:30, keeping your top hand on the bar.
Wont fall out of the sky this way, it will simply move up and down depending on the gusts/lulls, but you can control it easy, pulling the bar with the top hand turns it up while letting it out will let if fall closer to the ground.
Pretty easy this was as you can also turn and face the direction you are walking.
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
26 May 2015 4:32am
For once cab is right. Don't hold it at 12 unless you have to, to get clean air. Hold it as low as practical. Then its all about retaining that line tension. Foils are not as good in gusty, wind. There comes a point when they will just collapse out of the air when walking slowly. If its collapsing and drifting back on the way to the water then try and find a launch closer to the water. There comes a point of gustyness when the foil is simply not practical anymore. At the point you need to get back into an lei.

Oh yeah. Pull a bit of trim on then bar in all the way and backstall the kite more into the powerzone. that will stop the collapses and wind tip tucks. But this wont work if your too powered.
Loftywinds
Loftywinds
QLD
2060 posts
QLD, 2060 posts
26 May 2015 12:04pm
flyingcab said..
Don't hold it at 12, ....


Took the words out of mouth cabs. Foils are not "designed" to be held at 12 for too long anyway.
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
26 May 2015 11:03am
Also.

Run Forest run!...

Running creates more apparent wind and less chance of dropping out of the sky.
1950
1950
71 posts
71 posts
27 May 2015 1:01am
thanks guys for advices.

few things i'll remember, yes.. Run Forest run!... was doing it and gonna do it a lot. it's funny and everything and usually manages to recover if there is enough ground
holding over to 10:30 or 1:30, gonna try. i found it more manageable on those positions but guys at my local are full time in 12 when not riding. few times they instructed me that that's kind most stable position. i found it not to be when gusty wind.



Plummet said..
There comes a point of gustyness when the foil is simply not practical anymore. At the point you need to get back into an lei.


This is what i was most scared of. So there is one more LEI vs foils wins for LEI. it will relaunch when crashed hard, and it's more manageable and better handles ****ty wind (gusty/shifty)



bigtone667
bigtone667
NSW
1559 posts
NSW, 1559 posts
27 May 2015 10:01am
I remember one of the dudes at Kernel having his X19 come up to 12 oclock in a gust at speed. It lifted him of the ground and then the wind died. He continued to fly forward for about twenty metres into the "wind" and just missed planting himself into a rock groyne.
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
27 May 2015 8:46am
1950 said..




Plummet said..
There comes a point of gustyness when the foil is simply not practical anymore. At the point you need to get back into an lei.



This is what i was most scared of. So there is one more LEI vs foils wins for LEI. it will relaunch when crashed hard, and it's more manageable and better handles ****ty wind (gusty/shifty)





Yes. But the other side of the coin is that a foil are way more stable in light winds. They just hold up in the air when a lei constantly needs to be flown or it falls out of the sky.

On a side note. As closed cell foils get old they get porous and hold their shape worse. In essence they become less stable. Also the mixer on the bridle can be out of wack and that can make the kite unstable too. Its possible your old speed 3 is worn, stretched and bridles out of wack making harder to control than a new one.

The speed 4 is so incredibly stable.
1950
1950
71 posts
71 posts
27 May 2015 4:23pm
Plummet said..

1950 said..





Plummet said..
There comes a point of gustyness when the foil is simply not practical anymore. At the point you need to get back into an lei.




This is what i was most scared of. So there is one more LEI vs foils wins for LEI. it will relaunch when crashed hard, and it's more manageable and better handles ****ty wind (gusty/shifty)






Yes. But the other side of the coin is that a foil are way more stable in light winds. They just hold up in the air when a lei constantly needs to be flown or it falls out of the sky.

On a side note. As closed cell foils get old they get porous and hold their shape worse. In essence they become less stable. Also the mixer on the bridle can be out of wack and that can make the kite unstable too. Its possible your old speed 3 is worn, stretched and bridles out of wack making harder to control than a new one.

The speed 4 is so incredibly stable.


yes, my speed 3 is quite old but i think trimmed as good as it can be, i even experimented with some tips reading on foilzone like "c line bit shorter, etc.." but found most stable & best performing on standard mixer tuning, and set to hard steering. still new in my quiver so i do mixer test every time, checking all the lines all the time, noob stuff, etc...in reality its really great kite, but as
bigtone667 said..
I remember one of the dudes at Kernel having his X19 come up to 12 oclock in a gust at speed. It lifted him of the ground and then the wind died. He continued to fly forward for about twenty metres into the "wind" and just missed planting himself into a rock groyne.


this is worst scenario that can happen. i crashed like this few times practicing in shallow water. then read and learn that foils have to be "flown all the time" and found my personal solution to this situation.

if gust hit or maybe in worst case if it drops lower to wind window and gust hit and you know that's gonna shoot out to edge or even over the edge, do everything you can to prevent that acceleration. i found that trying to stall it before it accelerates quite fix problem instantly. you just don't let it accelerate holding rear lines outside of bar, like you want to back stall land it. it will pull, hard but in all situations i'v been i managed to drift on heels few meters and after gust passed, just back to normal.

speed 4, yes. i could imagine. new kite, bit thinner than speed3.. it could be stable as hell..
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
28 May 2015 5:13pm
When the kite takes a long time to inflate and the wing tips become flappy or loose looking even though its trimmed well and the leading edge seems square and pushed in even though you have it set for max power. Then its getting porous. Finally you loose lift and the kite doesn't jump as well as it used to.
1950
1950
71 posts
71 posts
4 Jun 2015 3:50am
Yup it's old, sometime takes ages to inflate, flappy wing tips if wind light, but i don't care :) It's great kite and i enjoy. Went out in overpower and under power situation. first one was survival at 20kts of really gust wind, did some ride and tea banging, ejected, and got 8m and continue to ride.. haha yep from 15 flysurfer to 8 switchblade, i'm 75kg. speed 3 have epic range, speed 4 think even more.



Loftywinds said..

flyingcab said..
Don't hold it at 12, ....



Took the words out of mouth cabs. Foils are not "designed" to be held at 12 for too long anyway.


Thanks for this. less chance to fall from sky. so when wind finally dies that it can't stay up, it will start slowly diving down and one more loop left or try to recover.
Loftywinds
Loftywinds
QLD
2060 posts
QLD, 2060 posts
10 Jun 2015 11:50am
I love Speed 3 kites. I've got a very patched up 12m one but wow.... The boost, control and agility of the Flysurfer kites are amazing and bar to none. I am actually looking for a Speed 3 15m, Speed 4 12m or a Chrono.
antlanglands
antlanglands
WA
72 posts
WA, 72 posts
12 Jun 2015 10:23am
I have the 15m lotus <--- Amasing Kite
Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
12 Jun 2015 6:22pm
Experience is the only way to learn how to handle foils in gusty winds... Can be a bit of a rough learning process though.

Yes, keep it to one side - high enough so that you can downloop it to keep it flying in drop outs, and low enough that you can resist a yank from gusts.

Sheet in to arrest the kite when it surges to the edge of the window.

Mixer - doing it properly involves, IMO, getting sufficient tension in the knots and lines when you do it. The other thing maximize performance is to make sure the front and rear lines are the same length. Unpick the stitching and the loop and resplice is the best way, once you need more than a few inches on he black rope.

The 15 is a beast! So much range... so much fu n to boost!
1950
1950
71 posts
71 posts
12 Jun 2015 7:10pm
Kamikuza said..
The 15 is a beast! So much range... so much fu n to boost!


yeah, so different that other kites i had in past and now
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