Noob science - Light Wind - Rebel 11 v Fat Lady 17

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Dl33ta
Dl33ta
TAS
463 posts
TAS, 463 posts
8 Jul 2013 10:53pm
Like the rest of you I've been getting pretty toey with the big gaps between decent wind (15kt+), so I start to consider what I can do with my light wind kit. I have a spleen monster door that I'm just starting to get the hang of but have had difficulty dialing it in, in the surf. The blade fat lady (2012) model is a low aspect, light weight kite that has a decent reputation. The rebel 11m is a higher aspect which prob doesn't need much explaining here.

Anyway I've had two days in a row where the wind has hovered around 10 knots, or just barely getting the odd white cap. Yesterday was a bit stronger but gustier when I had the blade out and today was lighter wind but more consistent. Both days the surf was pretty minimal 1 - 3 foot sort of stuff with a strong sweep against the wind, so ideal for a bit of light wind experimentation. I know as someone pretty new you're trying to maximise your time on the water and thought it might be useful to see if this light wind kiting thing is all it's cracked up to be. Just to reiterate I'm no pro, this is light wind from a noob's perspective.

The experiment, two very differen't kites, same spot, same wind, same tide'ish, and the same board.. Which one is better?

The launch..

Blade

Being a nigel no kiting friends I always self launch and land so this bit is important to me. The fat lady with her ample knickers billows out at a sniff of wind and leaps into the sky. Even though its a little gusty she just sits where you leave her while you go chase down your board.

Rebel

Let's face it, Rebels aren't super light and 11 isn't super big for a 9-10 knot average. So I had to patiently wait for a strong enough puff to fill her up and send her skyward.. It took about 3 minutes of.. Almost.. Nearly.. Wohoo! Experience has told me with this kite you put it on the seaward side as quick as you can, the air is generally cleaner and stronger on that side and the Rebel reacts quickly to turbulence.

Through the break

Getting through the break in light winds is the hardest bit and usually why most people prefer flat water in light winds. Waves stop your forward momentum which kills the apparent wind on the kite, turning you into capitan tea bag.

Blade

The massive knickers again shine through. You send the kite a little while you go over the humps and then give her a sine and off you go. Pretty easy to get over the smaller wash and if you're fast enough get some height over the bigger ones. The let down is when the odd bigger wave pops up and you want to do a snap turn and run. Combine the massive pulling power of the kite with the large surface area of the board and the turns are pretty slow. If your gunna chicken out, do it early.

Rebel

The rebel relies on kite movement to get my 90 kg odd winter lard moving at any rate in these types of winds. This means you don't have time to stop for waves, or even slow down to let a face break so you can float over it. I'm not at the point with the monster door where I can treat it like my Monk and go for launch off the kickers. So it's either a snap turn away or lose speed and sink in the water while the waves passes.

out the back..

blade

Where I kite the wind is always better offshore in most winds due to the headlands. Once you get some clean air over 12 knots with the fat lady you are in for a ride. Very hard to stay upwind with her though as there are some impressive sideways forces conniving to drag you leeward. With time and less noobness and maybe a surfboard I would say this would be less of a problem.

rebel

Once through the break and you can build up some speed the rebel is a weapon. The kite allows you to stay upwind a lot more than the FL and once you get some board speed you can just lock her in and go for it. For barely a whitecap to be seen, this was pretty surprising

back through the break

blade

This was a bit disappointing, I found it hard to get on a wave due to the FL not really wanting to drift. If it gusted you get yanked down wind and away from the wave. Without a surfboard you cant really just keep the kite up high cause you need to keep the power handy for the TT to work. But lets face it, waves and monster doors arent really a match made in heaven.

rebel

as my normal wave kite I'm pretty used to how it likes to behave once I jump on a wave. Sliding down the face of a wave gives you the speed you need to keep the kite in the air without worrying about it too much. Once you're ready to move on she just takes off again. You have to sine a lot more than with the FL but its much more predictable result.

the verdict

The FL was a much more relaxing if not as fun bit of light wind kiting. I covered ground really quickly and it was grunty enough to take me through the break without a lot of effort. If you were into flat water this kite would be killer with the right board.

The rebel was a load more fun and a ton more work. Obviously a small kite for my size and the conditions but definately doable. If I had my cash over again my light wind quiver might be a 12-14m with a SB given where I play. I think I prefer the higher aspect kites even though you can potentially be a sitting duck between waves.. if its been light enough for long enough then small waves aren't gunna hurt. The Rebels seem to get a bit heavy after 11 so might try some other brands. Anyway, one kooks light wind ramblings for your disection
pattiecannon
pattiecannon
QLD
593 posts
QLD, 593 posts
10 Jul 2013 9:50pm
HeyDl33ta, Good read m8. Were you sth the tweed?
I was surprised you couldn't control the FL out the back. Maybe you could have backed it off on the bridle attatchments?
I have ridden a few LW asymetricals and the only good one was an old North Phantom. Turned on a dime, pop, but I snapped it . I reckon an Aboard or Spike or King George or speedball or anything big and TT shaped would be way better for the carve.
Maybe with one of these and drop the power out a bit you'll stay upwind easy?

Dl33ta
Dl33ta
TAS
463 posts
TAS, 463 posts
11 Jul 2013 1:47pm
Hey Pattie, this was off Kawana on the sunny coast. To tell you the truth my bridal modification expertise extends to changing the steering line knot from the top one to the bottom one, seems to turn faster there. I'm having some real troubles at the moment trying to nail down the next board. I'm thinking a BWS drifter which should be okay for the light wind stuff and down winders. Got to say though the Shinn TT's do float my boat so I have thoughts of Dundees and speedballs as well.
Bazinga
Bazinga
QLD
63 posts
QLD, 63 posts
14 Jul 2013 8:52am
Hi delta

Some observations from some who rides a seemingly identical setup (i.e. 90kgs, 11m Rebel, Monk Forever, Monster Spleene Door light wind board).

In 8-10kts I can't even get close to going on the Rebel and Door, but had a couple of quick runs on a 2013 17m North Dyno with the Door. Dyno was very easy to get on the plane with loads of power even at that wind speed, could get a few smaller jumps in without too much problem. Dyno bar pressure was much heavier that the Rebel (which I normally have on the heavier setting). I was a little surprised how hard I had to work and concentrate to stay upwind on the Dyno. I had been considering a light wind kite and this quick experience just underlined how important it is to test gear out whenever I get the opportunity.
Dl33ta
Dl33ta
TAS
463 posts
TAS, 463 posts
16 Jul 2013 2:21pm
Interesting note on the Dyno Baz, sounds like the upwind difficulty could just be a function of sail area. Be interested to see how it would be on one of the Zephyr's. Given their cost though I'd be pretty nervous taking one out into the surf. Getting the Rebel going in light winds is just about keeping it active all the time, sine that sucker like no tomorrow, with your legs bent as much as you can handle, right in over the board. Once you get some apparent wind going from the board speed it will take off like a rocket.
pattiecannon
pattiecannon
QLD
593 posts
QLD, 593 posts
8 Aug 2013 5:38am
Hey Bazinga, maybe the Monster Spleene Door light wind board is just to hard to sink an edge with that much power? Maybe your Monk or a 145 or 150 king george would be a better bet? I've read the Speedball is an upwind monster also.
I have tested the 17m Core xr2 vs the Epic Infinity V2 for upwind and though the core had slightly more static pull the V2 went upwind way more with the core scoring all the WOS and none for the V2. This was on more than one day and on the same board in conditions varying from 7-14 kts. Not saying one kite is better than the other but for LW upwind it's more than just kite size that matters.
Bazinga
Bazinga
QLD
63 posts
QLD, 63 posts
9 Aug 2013 7:48pm
Good point Pattie......I should have had a go on the monk........gives gives me a good excuse to try it again

What do you mean core scored all of the WOS?? How did you find the V2 for jumping?
pattiecannon
pattiecannon
QLD
593 posts
QLD, 593 posts
20 Aug 2013 1:25am
Hey Bazinger, that's the ol' W alk O f S hame lol. To be honest I haven't gone much for straight out boosting on either of these as when I've got them out it's usually too marginal and I'm playing for ground for rolls and waves or it's overpowered and I'm hanging on. On the rare day's it's in the sweet spot about 9-12kts I find it doesn't really invite straight boosting. I'll give it a crack next go and post the results here. The 9 renegade is a way better booster than the 11 even at it's low end but with a kicker and I suspect the V2 and XR2 are even less 'jumpy' than the 11.
Bazinga
Bazinga
QLD
63 posts
QLD, 63 posts
22 Aug 2013 12:32pm
Cheers for the acronym explanation......I should know that one as I have to do it often enough in these crappy light winter winds.

I had the chance to take an Infinity V3 out for the weekend (thanks Nigel). The wind started at 7-8 knots and gradually increased to ~12knots. I think it will be hard to directly compare kites unless you are flying them back to back in exactly the same conditions, but for what it is worth I thought the Infinity V3 had less bar pressure than the Dyno 17m and also went upwind easier on my Monster Door. To get going in the lighter conditions it was just a matter of sining the V3 twice to get a bit of apparent wind, then locked it in at 2o'clock and start easing upwind. I could go upwind at +10knots on the Door and at +12 knots could hold ground on my Monk......at my skill level I probably needed another 2knots to start jumping with any real effect. I thought the kite was very stable and downlooped easily by fishpoling the bar on the turns....bar throw was a little shorter that I was expecting, unfortunately the wind didn't really get high enough to need to test depower/trim effectiveness but with such a short bar throw I'm not sure there would be anything to gain on the trim strap anyway.
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