To be or not to be? That is the Question!

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PF
PF
QLD
10 posts
PF PF
QLD, 10 posts
24 Feb 2011 7:34am
Oops, wrong forum for Shakespeare I guess.

New to this forum and new to kitesurfing. Good customer service from Seabreeze so far, had some problems with registration and got it sorted asap with a smile.

Anyway, real Q: I've spoken to a few kite shops and have received different feedback on use of trainer kite. Some say do get one, some say ignore and start on a real one straight away. I understand the benefits and drawbacks of both learning methods so confuse me even more with your opinion. Did you use a trainer kite and why do recommend one, or don't. Did you go straight to a proper kite and what is your experience and recommendations of that approach?

if this topic has been discussed previously, just provide the link.

NickT
NickT
WA
1094 posts
WA, 1094 posts
24 Feb 2011 6:40am
I flew a small two line stunt kite a couple of times before I started my lessons. Most trainer kites do not fly the same as inflatables so the only things you will learn is steering and the power through the wind window. They are fun but by no means essential.
Ozone make a trainer called an Uno it's 2m2 $300 and runs a standard bar $400 (sold seperately) although dear this trainer is inflatable so any skills you learn are directly transferable ie water relaunch, body drag, launching, landing bar sheeting.
Ocean rodeo also do an inflatable trainers called the rise its cheaper around $400 but the bar is a lightweight version that should only be used with the trainer.
sbray
sbray
SA
350 posts
SA, 350 posts
24 Feb 2011 9:55am
NickT said...
[br "They are fun but by no means essential."

Ozone make a trainer called an Uno it's 2m2 $300 and runs a standard bar $400 (sold seperately) .



Or...an alternative suggestion; You could invest that cash directly into lessons (which you should be doing eventually), from a reputable instructor and use their gear to get practice / instruction that is supervised and gets instant feed back on your progress.

Getting good (extra ) instruction has proven itself to help accelerate most newbie's learning curve. The benefits from using a trainer to gain those accelerated skills seems to still be open for debate.

Your cash.....your decision

Cheers
Fossil
pulse69
pulse69
QLD
39 posts
QLD, 39 posts
24 Feb 2011 9:45am
Rent one for a week before your 1st lesson. It helped me get up on the board in my first lesson.
kyteryder
kyteryder
NSW
692 posts
NSW, 692 posts
24 Feb 2011 1:15pm
When I learnt over 7 years ago, it wasn't common practice to learn with a trainer kite, i learnt with a grunty c kite, and my progression was very slow. If I was aware then that if i used a trainer kite, my progression would be faster then i would of used a trainer kite.
As Pulse69 mentioned hire one for a week. I think you would find the benefits of a trainer, though can see the pro's and cons of buying a trainer outright, when you want to learn kiteboarding. After you are proficient at the trainer, you will unlikely get it out for a long time, because you are wanting to get on the water at every opportunity.
Some kite Schools recommend the trainer kite method first, and i really think that is to the students benefit. Most learners are going to go out in lighter winds, and trying to fly a kite in these winds takes more skill than people think.

We are heading into the quieter wind months shortly, and your frustration on flying in substandard winds will eat you alive.
Hire a trainer, and use this for an hour or so, prior to pumping up your proper kite. You will definately progress quicker.

Goodluck KR
NSW, 4382 posts
24 Feb 2011 1:25pm
I've been teaching people to kitesurf and power kite for nearly 2 decades now, and without doubt the people who learn and progress fastest are those that learn on smaller, safely manageable kites.
They learn the wind window and their brain learns the muscle memory needed to turn a kite both in an upwards (away from the surface/ground) and downwards direction.
They learn not to fear the kite, and to fly it without having to look at it.

It is not uncommon for people who have previous kite flying skills to be up and riding and to be safe independent kiters after a couple of lessons with our schools.

Schools and instructors that give advice to the contrary are more interested in you coming back for many many lessons with them on their large and often doughy dumbed down "school" kites.

Do yourself a big favour and get a trainer kite. The Ozone Imp trainer kite does fly a lot like a kitesurfing kite, we developed it specifically to be like that and to have a let go of the bar safety system and pull one (middle) line relaunch system. If you have the bucks the Ozone Uno is also an excellent trainer kite, but I would still recommend the Ozone Imp to people who have never flown kites before.
Willy81
Willy81
QLD
11 posts
QLD, 11 posts
24 Feb 2011 11:57pm
I bought a trainer kite and am still in the early stages of learning (just able to stand now). I'm not sure if the trainer helped me or not. It does fly much differently to a kitesurfing kite, but then it did teach me how to steer and the wind window. These are both concepts you pick up pretty quickly with a real kite though.

I still carry my training kite around in the boot of my car. It's great fun to get out when the wind is light or your with friends. You can do cool loops and stuff with them very easily. I have a Rush III Pro. It has 3 lines. The middle line is awesome to relaunch the kite when it has crashed on its leading edge. Mine is super easy to relaunch. I have mates flying it in minutes..
PF
PF
QLD
10 posts
PF PF
QLD, 10 posts
25 Feb 2011 9:53pm
Kitepower Australia said...

and their brain learns the muscle memory needed to turn a kite both
It is not uncommon for people who have previous kite flying skills to be up and riding and to be safe independent kiters after a couple of lessons with our schools.


I understand muscle memory extremely well, which is why I can relate to / and question both recommendations and I came here to ask for more opinions. I am a 'trainer' myself (not in kitesurfing) and have taught people with both the 'real deal' and 'imitations', as well as teaching in different styles (in my industry). When going from one to another method or tool there is always a level of unlearning and relearning. In my professional expereince neither methods I use are better than others, just depends what works best with each individual.

You're an IKO instructor, so I assume your recommendations do carry some weight.
jas73
jas73
QLD
796 posts
QLD, 796 posts
26 Feb 2011 10:14am
You can hire a trainer for $50 buck at kitepower which is a good investment if you have never flown a kite before. I personally went halves in a 3m foil with my brother in law and we played with it in a lake up the sunshine coast. In good wind you could body body drag with it and it really helped with progression to a larger kite and board. My son flew a small trainer for months before he had a lesson and was up on the board after one lesson. So imo i think it helps allot.
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
26 Feb 2011 2:50pm
When my son was about 12 and his older brother and I were just learning to kitesurf with the big stuff, he spent many months with our trainer just playing around. When we started to progress he took an intersted in picking up a big kite. He immediately understood the dynamics of a big inflateable kite and quickly progressed well beyond me. He's now 20 and still kitesurfing.

Get a trainer like Steve from KP says. You won't need many lessons as you'll progress quickly. You can always sell it later to the next new guy.
tmurray
tmurray
WA
485 posts
WA, 485 posts
26 Feb 2011 12:07pm
If you're feeling cheap get a toy kite and replace the handles with a dowelling bar. It really helped me to fly it - but try it in the ocean, one handed in a spot where you are getting pounded by waves and can't stand - that'll teach you to use 'feel' more than your eyes and help heaps when you're first trying waterstarts.
kb53
kb53
55 posts
55 posts
3 Mar 2011 7:47pm
When I decided to take up the sport; I looked on Ebay for a small real kite. I picked up an old C kite. A 5 meter "Best Yarga" for $120. It included a proper bar and lines plus pump for $120.
The idea being it flies like a real kite. Big enough to not be a toy. Powerful enough to throw you if you do something wrong; but too small to drag you all the way down the beach and across the road.
Enough to give you a headstart if you decide to continue.
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
4 Mar 2011 4:16pm
kb53 said...

When I decided to take up the sport; I looked on Ebay for a small real kite. I picked up an old C kite. A 5 meter "Best Yarga" for $120. It included a proper bar and lines plus pump for $120.
The idea being it flies like a real kite. Big enough to not be a toy. Powerful enough to throw you if you do something wrong; but too small to drag you all the way down the beach and across the road.
Enough to give you a headstart if you decide to continue.


I owned a 7m Yarga when they were new. Every time I flew it I felt like I had a tiger by the tail. Occasionally it came round to bite me! It was great fun and I've not flown such an agressive small kite since.
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