Toeside, dodgey shoulders and bar pressure

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Dl33ta
Dl33ta
TAS
463 posts
TAS, 463 posts
8 Sep 2013 10:12pm
Any SB riders with dodgey shoulders have any tips for minimising injury when going toeside? Have had multiple dislocations of the same shoulder from various things over the years. It's generally pretty strong now but since I've switched to the SB it seems to open a lot of opportunity for injury. Effected arm up above the shoulder while one arming the kite on a toeside tack is pretty vulnerable for me.

Have been bringing my other hand around to help out for the moment but was thinking I might change the pigtails off hard to soft setting see if that makes a difference. Gybing could solve my problem but I'm hoping there might be other suggestions.
SaltySinus
SaltySinus
VIC
960 posts
VIC, 960 posts
9 Sep 2013 10:54am
Hello Dl33ta,

I am rubbish. Let me just put that out there.

But I saw a video the other day of some guy doing an upwind jibe, I.e. spinning the board to point upwind and round... and to be fair, it was more flat water than jibing in the surf... but maybe a work around for flat water....
pattiecannon
pattiecannon
QLD
593 posts
QLD, 593 posts
9 Sep 2013 10:59am
Have you tried the Dynabar?
Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5127 posts
VIC, 5127 posts
9 Sep 2013 12:13pm
If you're having trouble with bar pressure then you're probably over controlling the kite and gripping the bar too hard. All the power should go through the chicken loop into the harness. You should only have finger pressure on the bar. Maybe use your trimmer a bit more.

Gybing is a mandatory skill when riding a directional. Partially because you need to gybe from time to time, but mostly because it frees you from being locked into a single stance and locked into the straps.

You need to do it because:
- it lets you rest
- it hugely improves upwind performance
- it makes your riding much more flexible
- it's huge fun when you get it right

There's lots of tips for gybing about swapping before or after turning and it's all BS. You need to be able to swap you feet any time because it's all part of being free to do what you want on the board.

The most important thing with riding a directional, and that includes riding straight or gybing or whatever, and that is you must have your body weight around the centre of the board. As long as you have one foot in the centre then you can do whatever you like with the back foot.

Something that supports that transferring the power of the kite down into the board. Imagine the power of the kite going in a straight line down through the front lines, through the chicken loop and down your legs into the centre of the board. If you do that you can wander around on the board all you want and it will keep planing.
Dl33ta
Dl33ta
TAS
463 posts
TAS, 463 posts
9 Sep 2013 12:45pm
Got a link Salty?


Hey Pattie, yeah I'm using a dynabar but I think that amplifies the problem as it lets you face away from the kite more and therfor have your arm super extended.


Gorgo said..

If you're having trouble with bar pressure then you're probably over controlling the kite and gripping the bar too hard. All the power should go through the chicken loop into the harness. You should only have finger pressure on the bar. Maybe use your trimmer a bit more.

Gybing is a mandatory skill when riding a directional. Partially because you need to gybe from time to time, but mostly because it frees you from being locked into a single stance and locked into the straps.

You need to do it because:
- it lets you rest
- it hugely improves upwind performance
- it makes your riding much more flexible
- it's huge fun when you get it right

There's lots of tips for gybing about swapping before or after turning and it's all BS. You need to be able to swap you feet any time because it's all part of being free to do what you want on the board.

The most important thing with riding a directional, and that includes riding straight or gybing or whatever, and that is you must have your body weight around the centre of the board. As long as you have one foot in the centre then you can do whatever you like with the back foot.

Something that supports that transferring the power of the kite down into the board. Imagine the power of the kite going in a straight line down through the front lines, through the chicken loop and down your legs into the centre of the board. If you do that you can wander around on the board all you want and it will keep planing.


I know you're right here Gorgo, I just didn't want to face it. I've had a fairly easy run with the SB so far and was loathe to go back to dead N00b staus again but I think its the only way forward. Thanks for the advice I'll go and make a spectacle of myself on the beach again.
Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5127 posts
VIC, 5127 posts
9 Sep 2013 1:09pm
Honestly, once you understand weight distribution and gybing you'll wonder what all the fuss was about. It is soooo easy to gybe and switch feet and to do it stylishly.

How many guys do you see slogging along on their surfboard with the nose flopping up and down, and walking back up the beach or doing downwinders.

There's no rule that says you have to swap feet, there are some riders way better than me who never do. But if you can't swap feet then your severely compromising your enjoyment of a directional.

Imagine this, you're riding around on the inside in tiny surf in light winds. You line up a little peak and carve a turn on it while swapping to heelside as you drop in. Pump in a few little carves, crank a turn on the inside then jam upwind to repeat. You can't do that just slogging along on toeside.
Dl33ta
Dl33ta
TAS
463 posts
TAS, 463 posts
9 Sep 2013 7:40pm
You've sold me, do you usually switch before or after the turn, or just take it as it comes? It will certainly make starting off in a NE'er easier being a goofy just riding out through the break switch rather than toeside.

Must admit I often wonder about guys who tear arse down wind just about parallel to the shore the whole way. Seems like they spend almost more time ferrying cars than they do kiting. I'd definately like to be able to hold station on a nice break like I can with the TT.
toppleover
toppleover
QLD
2070 posts
QLD, 2070 posts
9 Sep 2013 9:50pm
They may appear to you they are tearing arse d-wind (if you are still in TT mode & trying to stay upwind) but on a d-winder they/we are actually riding the waves with kites that drift downwind.

IMO the faster you go usually results in a better session but its nice to stretch it out sometimes also.


Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5127 posts
VIC, 5127 posts
10 Sep 2013 12:11pm
Dl33ta said..

You've sold me, do you usually switch before or after the turn, or just take it as it comes? ....


I am a natural (left foot forward), and my best move is the left foot forward toeside carve, so when riding on heel side and left foot forward I do a carve and change on the way out. The change can happen any time from during the transition, just after, or not at all.

If I am riding heel side and right foot forward I switch to toe side then do a heelside carve.

The easiest time to swap feet is about 2/3s through the turn. You've just gone through the downwind part of the turn and the kite is a bit depowered and the board is almost stationary for a micro second. If you have the power running correctly down through the harness through your front foot then you can stand there for as long as you like and move your feet around.

Always move your back foot up near to the front foot. Move your weight to the back foot (about to be the new front foot). Move your old front foot back. You can move your foot back in a series of dabs rather than trying to go straight to the strap.

In general when you're a noob on a directional it's best to keep the back foot out of the strap and place anywhere from just in front of the back strap to the mid way between the front and rear straps.
Dave Whettingsteel
Dave Whettingsteel
WA
1397 posts
WA, 1397 posts
10 Sep 2013 11:54am
I went straight to a strapped surfboard from lessons, and I have to say it took me a while to learn to gybe, and more specifically switch feet. Gorgo gives some great tips. Now I'm getting used to riding toe side as well and the combination is brilliant I reckon.

Staying toeside is good for a short period, eg about to be monstered by a wave and make a quick turn to get away from it and not risk a foot switch stuff up. Switch to heelside is far better when you want to stay on a tack.... more relaxed and go faster and point higher up wind at my skill level.
Dl33ta
Dl33ta
TAS
463 posts
TAS, 463 posts
10 Sep 2013 6:35pm
Was easy to visualize what you were saying there Dave, thanks. I went out today but didn't give it a go as I was breaking in my new wave kite, would've been too much for my small brain to comprehend. I found that I really like to plant the rear foot to initiate a tight turn then bring the kite through a short second after that. I imagine that transition period right before or after you apex the turn would be the best time to do it, like you were saying.

I must admit I don't like the thought of stuffing around trying to find strap arches with my big hoofs. Even though I wear the straps as loose as they can go I still find them a bit restrictive, going to try it strapless next time.
snalberski
snalberski
WA
858 posts
WA, 858 posts
11 Sep 2013 10:43pm
Here's a really good link for upwind jibe...

bene313
bene313
WA
1347 posts
WA, 1347 posts
14 Sep 2013 11:39am
If you have a sore leading shoulder, you NEED to gybe and ride switch regularly. The build up in the shoulder from constantly riding the favoured stance is an accident waiting to happen.

My leading shoulder seems to give me grief, it's a constant battle. Riding switch is such a relief!

Problem is, on downwinders or waves generally, a lot of time is spent in the favoured stance. Riding switch is usually preserved for a single leg of an upwind tack. So the options are:

1. Learn to ride switch in waves. This gives the usual shoulder a well earned break and will improves riding generally, although takes a season of kooking it to learn. (I haven't sacrificed a season to learn this yet!)

2. Back on the twin tip son. This summer I will be back on the twin tip for some switch action in the surf. Looking forward to changing it up a bit!
Dl33ta
Dl33ta
TAS
463 posts
TAS, 463 posts
14 Sep 2013 6:58pm
Funnily enough after a nice long downwinder today on the SB and watching one of the guys gybe around strapless I'm all inspired. Next run I'm unleashing the inner kook and going to have a go, not that anyone will think I'm less retarded than with straps on but I'll know the difference. Think I'm over the TT for the moment, way too much work but I haven't been riding the SB long enough that I forget how to ride switch so it should be all good.
bene313
bene313
WA
1347 posts
WA, 1347 posts
14 Sep 2013 8:15pm
Give it a crack!

After 20 years riding surfboards and skateboards in a set stance, I find it very hard to ride waves switch. Interestingly, I find my upwind ability is better switch though - which actually makes sense because my normal back foot (ie. weight bearing foot) is now forward in switch, so more weight forward on the board.
Dl33ta
Dl33ta
TAS
463 posts
TAS, 463 posts
22 Sep 2013 10:32am
Got to say, loving the strapless. The hardest bit was convincing myself to take the straps off. Definately a different mode of riding, having to slow down a lot more for the wash but 100% more enjoyable. Gives you a few more options as well, went out and got a second hand bigger SB for some light wind action. Had buckets of fun on it yesterday with the light wind kite and 10-14 kts of breeze.

Strangely enough I found it much easier to start toeside strapless which was totally unexpected, not sure what that is all about. Another strange thing was carving turns from toeside to forehand were a bit akward as well. I'm guessing that is due to inadequate back foot pressure as turning the other way is sweet as.

Next challenge is riding switch and gybing
gcdave
gcdave
534 posts
534 posts
22 Sep 2013 5:13pm
Stick to it for a month solid, dont quit it caus of the kook again feeln. Defo consider a lighter bar pressure kite down the track to maybe aid that injury and an easier punt
Peterc150
Peterc150
VIC
710 posts
VIC, 710 posts
22 Sep 2013 10:06pm
Dl33ta said..

Got to say, loving the strapless. The hardest bit was convincing myself to take the straps off. Definately a different mode of riding, having to slow down a lot more for the wash but 100% more enjoyable. Gives you a few more options as well, went out and got a second hand bigger SB for some light wind action. Had buckets of fun on it yesterday with the light wind kite and 10-14 kts of breeze.

Strangely enough I found it much easier to start toeside strapless which was totally unexpected, not sure what that is all about. Another strange thing was carving turns from toeside to forehand were a bit akward as well. I'm guessing that is due to inadequate back foot pressure as turning the other way is sweet as.

Next challenge is riding switch and gybing


Strapless puts your feet in full control of the board by placement and foot pressure - no more cranking on straps. It feels much more natural.

When I first tried gybing it felt impossible. Learning on a bigger board (Sector 60) gives you more time as it doesn't sink as much if you slow down.

That's what I really like about kitesurfing - you just keep learning - and can feel like a beginner all over again.

I can gybe my SB no problems now - I can pre turn gybe or post turn on my natural stance, but only post turn gybe the other way.

It is worth practicing all scenarios. If you are in the surf and about to get slammed you want to do the fastest chicken turn possible.

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