Just wondering is it blatantly obvious??

Can you tell when your trying to position the kite to get up? Is it zipping all over the place or skull dragging you through the water as you try to get the board under your feet?

or is it when your actually up and riding? Your going to quick?????

or is it to do with when your doing tricks?? Ages from that point at the moment.

Cheers Ive read that, I was guessing that applied to flying your kite in its suitable wind range for you weight.

I guess the whole depower name has me confused.

Im thinking if Im riding a 11m kite but wish I had a 9 metre I'd fly it depowered.


I've done a bit of sailing on nacra catamarans and the likes 20 years ago and if you were to light for the conditions you would over rotate the mast to depower the rig. I've been thinking over rotating is like depowering???

I understand trimming to be getting the most out of your kite for the available conditions, depowering I thought would be flying your kite in conditions that are border line?? or perhaps past the safe limit??

Hey Bell Diver and Gateman,

The launching a kite fully depowered info is great in theory but so wrong in practice, this might work well in a predictable steady trade wind but try it in gusty wind.

It's a bit like riding a bike and only peddling really slowly, the bike will fall over.

Most of the kites with the jam cleat system and/or a lot of depower ability can have trouble flying when they are fully depowered and can be even more difficult to launch.

If you're always launching fully depowered because you are uncertain about the wind speed or your ability you might need to have a re think about the approach.

Bell Diver....if you're kite is zig zaging in front of you.. could need some depower to get it to settle and find control.

Too much power means lack of control....so if you find that you're loosing control just depower.

Depowering a kite is similar to sheeting out in sailing terms.

Shane, the depower bungee will allow you to take power out of the kite and keep control in higher winds, you should be able to depower while you are on the water.

What type of kite do you fly?

Righto....????....Well you've pretty much just answered you're own question then..

shane75 said...

KiteBilly said...
Shane, the depower bungee will allow you to take power out of the kite and keep control in higher winds, you should be able to depower while you are on the water.

What type of kite do you fly?

lol, yes age and type of kites make a difference example: im out on my f-one bandit4 12m its blowing 25knots (and yes ive taken it out in those winds) my trim/depower strap is only good for about 75% any more and the kite flutters too much and no is good to fly, (thats how i used to fly) now days after launching I trim/depower kite until its nice and stable above my head and then it's fun time and if I really have to adjust it more than 50% during my session then I'll come back in and downsize, I believe that the primary use of trim/ depower is for saftey and if you have to use it to keep flying then maybe you should re-think your overall kite, board and body technique and ask for help from someone more skilled than yourself.
This is just my opinion for flying in high winds at the top end of your kites range which is dependent on your weight and technique/skills.
another example is I've been out with my core xr19m while others have come out on 12m kites but when I reach the point where I have to use the trim to depower more than 50% I come in check the wind gauge and it says 16-17kts, if your flying at more than 50% say 75-90% then your really risking injury to yourself property and others when you try to come in and land.

The reason you are "depowering" your kite is so you can reach the bar comfortably.
So the correct term is trimming, you are using the trim system to trim the bar so that you can comfortably fly your kite without getting pulled in the "poo man" stance.
The "depower" strap or cleat does not actually depower you kite, this is a name give to the TRIM SYSTEM that perpetuates misunderstanding in our industry, and causes near misses and much trouble on our beaches.
Pulling in on the "depower" strap/cleat DOES NOT change the size of the kite that you have in the air, it just shortens the front flying lines, which effectively lengthens the rear flying lines and allows you to reach the control bar and still ride in a comfortable position.

You should always launch with the trim system set at the longest or if you suspect the wind is a bit on the upper limit for your kite, then set it at approx 1/3rd, then launch. You are still launching the same size kite, over trimming it is dangerous, because you will have lengthened the rear lines and this has the effect of reducing your ability to actually steer the kite, as well as making the kite more prone to "luffing or front stalling".

Become familiar with your kite, by using it, no amount of theory will replace using your kite in real wind and learning its wind range for you and your combined body weight and board size.

All modern kites can deliver less power by the rider pushing the bar out, or more when pulling the bar in. The trim or "depower" system on changes the range of trimming that you can achieve at the bar, but it does not and never will change the size of the kite.

Kitepower Australia said...


The reason you are "depowering" your kite is so you can reach the bar comfortably.
So the correct term is trimming, you are using the trim system to trim the bar so that you can comfortably fly your kite without getting pulled in the "poo man" stance.
The "depower" strap or cleat does not actually depower you kite, this is a name give to the TRIM SYSTEM that perpetuates misunderstanding in our industry, and causes near misses and much trouble on our beaches.
Pulling in on the "depower" strap/cleat DOES NOT change the size of the kite that you have in the air, it just shortens the front flying lines, which effectively lengthens the rear flying lines and allows you to reach the control bar and still ride in a comfortable position.

You should always launch with the trim system set at the longest or if you suspect the wind is a bit on the upper limit for your kite, then set it at approx 1/3rd, then launch. You are still launching the same size kite, over trimming it is dangerous, because you will have lengthened the rear lines and this has the effect of reducing your ability to actually steer the kite, as well as making the kite more prone to "luffing or front stalling".

Become familiar with your kite, by using it, no amount of theory will replace using your kite in real wind and learning its wind range for you and your combined body weight and board size.

All modern kites can deliver less power by the rider pushing the bar out, or more when pulling the bar in. The trim or "depower" system on changes the range of trimming that you can achieve at the bar, but it does not and never will change the size of the kite.

I understand that the so called 'depower strap' is really for trimming. But isn't the aim of adjusting the trim strap to get the correct kite angle of attack for the current wind condintions. (ie. with bar fully extended/depowered, front lines should be tight and steering lines with just an inch or so of slack.) And then, if you find over a few sessions in varying wind speeds that your bar arm reach is uncomfortable you should shorten or lengthen the steering lines on the adjustment knots to get the bar at a comfortable riding position when the kite is correctly trimmed for the conditions?

Kazan said...
KitePower's reply is the best and most concise I've heard yet about what trimming a kite and the "powered vs depowered" discussions that are going on at the moment.

It's time non-professional kiters (aka... untrained to train others), stop coming in here preaching to the children.

"We don't need no education...." (TheWall)

Kazan..Sure, I'm not a qualified instructor, rather than making a general negative comment.. how about actually specifying what you think is right or wrong with what people are preaching...this is a free speech forum not a English school dialogue.

Kitepower Australia said...

Become familiar with your kite, by using it, no amount of theory will replace using your kite in real wind and learning its wind range for you and your combined body weight and board size.

Absolutely spot on there Steve.
All Im suggesting (and Im sure u will agree) is ways to stay safe while you get up-close & personal with your new kite & the wind/s it will handle.
Experience will ultimately be your teacher & your guide. Then there is no one who can tell you what you are doing is wrong - once you have your style & your kites dialled. If it works for you then its the way-to-go.

Hi noobs

Please do NOT launch your kite fully trimmed down in strong winds, as Steve from Kitepower above has mentioned, you seriously effect the ability to steer your kite. Some kites have absolutely no steering when fully trimmed in. If you have a line with a small knot and/or a twig shortening an upper wingtip steering line, you'll have no control as the kite whips up across the wind window at full speed.

Here is a bit of info for the noobs. A depowered/trimmed kite can be faster across the wind window (at lower angle of attack) on launch than one powered up, producing almost the same amount of power

Mis information can be more dangerous than no information. Noobies shouldn't be launching on strong wind days without supervision or advice from experienced kiters. Period. Inexperienced riders experimenting due to lack of knowledge in strong winds creates serious accidents.

DM

My view is quite simple.

You have too much power when you can't hold your line of movement and get blown downwind at speed. You should be able to ride at least perpendicular to the wind direction. Depower if you get blown down wind however hard you edge. You'll have the most fun when you can just control the power.

Of course this is assuming that you have your basic edging technique down because you won't be able to hold edge in any decent wind without the technique, i.e. when you're first starting out, in which case the only thing you can do is practise :)

Rob S said...



I'm certain I don't I understand but.

Join the club I'm certain I do not fully understand all the variables that go into a kite design either, but I guess a 20+ year obsession gives me a little bit more experience to draw on

Rob S said...
Are you saying the primary AOI set by the designer determines the angle of incidence to the wind that the kite will fly?

Yes

Rob S said...
And the angle varies with wind speed?

The Angle of Attack can vary, but the AOI remains constant.

Rob S said...
And in stronger winds the angle changes to tighten the back lines.

Stronger winds includes apparent wind that builds as you gain speed across the water at angles other than directly downwind. But what is changing is the Angle of Attack, because you are sheeting out, which is lengthening the front lines (and shortening the rears), so you then need to trim (pull in on the "depower) the kite by shortening the front lines, which lengthens the rears and allows you to hold the bar at a comfortable and optimal position to control your stance on the board and control the speed of your board, which also controls the kite power by minimising the build up of apparent wind.

Rob S said...
And will require trimming to get the tensions back to about equal in the front and rear lines? And of course bring the bar within easier reach too.

Probably not equal, but trimming will allow you to hold the bar and maintain a good comnfortable posture on the board which helps to maintain control and reduce speed and therefore the build up of more power due to increasing apparent wind.

Hope that helps?

Woah - getting complex here. But thats understandable - the whole aerodynamic variables issue of kiting can get technical & complex very quickly.
If you are confused right here; right now; dont go slitting your wrists - or worse - give up kiting cos its all sounding too hard.
Steve from Kitepower has hit the nail right on the head with his advise to get to know your kite; how it responds in differing wind conditions; your weight & board size; how much back line pressure it takes to become workable etc etc etc.
Every competent kiter out there has done this - consciously or just as a consequence of learning to kite.
Dont stress the fine print - it will never be a life or death issue as long as your kite size selection for the day is within the workable safe range. This is the first (& perhaps only truly critical) decision to be made. From then on its simply a matter of adopting practices which suit your experience level.
Im suggesting newbies launch on full depower as a first option. If full depower (longest backline length) simply wont work - as in a kite becomes unsteerable when back lines are TOO slack - then obviously you need to trim in (shorten your back lines) and try again.
But if the kite size is correct for a newby that day then; 99% of the time; you will be able to steer your kite up to 12 with the least chance of grief. And you should be able to prepare for your take off before trimming your kite to its optimal setting for that session. By setting your trim so that it is only the very last few cms of throw (bar out) that begins to slacken the back lines then you have the most available working range for your bar-in bar-out sheeting once you are on the water.
Once you have the experience this all becomes second nature & you will develop your own preferences - as in lots of us just go max power from the start up & only fiddle with things like trimming when its making life difficult.
The problem is getting the experience!! IMO go safety first till it all becomes clear.

As long as the kite industry accepts newbies coming into the sport with an "instruction" course which is totally devoid of any "education" then even the best exit students will hit our beaches solo with nothing but the preliminary "skills" of getting up & riding. Hopefully with (but all too often NOT) some of the essential "skills" needed to rely on when it all goes pair shaped.

Hold the flaming!!!
Im not saying you need a uni degree in aerodynamics to get your head around whats happening & why when you are kiting. Im just totally disillusioned by the standard "lesson program" which is accepted by pretty much everyone as 'adequate' for the industry to consider as acceptable.

Hi peeps,

Here is an old technique I forgot teaching years ago. Put your kite up in winds it is designed to fly in (Check manufacturers recommendations. Compensate to your body weight).

With kite at 12o'clock and trim strap set to full power, sheet the bar in to full power. If you cannot walk backwards upwind, it is too windy for you as a noob.

Simple! That is all.

DM

Here is some info on how kites generate power kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/progression/kite-power

And some information on trimming: kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/progression/kite-trimming

I will update the second article with some of the information from this post - I agree that the term "de-powering" is a bit misleading and that "trimming" is a more accurate description of what is actually happening.