ancient foil kite as trainer?

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ToshAuer
ToshAuer
QLD
24 posts
QLD, 24 posts
27 Jun 2013 2:30pm
Hi guys

This is my first post and am a complete newbie. I've been toying with the idea of starting kiteboarding for years now as a natural progression from surfing and wakeboarding all my life and the time is now. Now I will be getting lessons but wanted to get a trainer kite so as to be able to progress quicker. This is when it dawned on me that there had been an old 6m foil kite in my shed for years. Now let me make it clear I wouldn't be doing this on a crowded beach. I have access to a big empty paddock so it would be only myself and my Ute in danger. That's what I want to know though. Just how dangerous would it be to use?

Cheers

Tosh
Independent
Independent
NSW
56 posts
NSW, 56 posts
27 Jun 2013 2:48pm
^ ^ ^

Not sure where you're located etc... but from what the local retailers have advised and after heaps of research for myself, don't use a 6m as a trainer... I'm in the high 90kgs and was recommended a 2.5m trainer.

Just a thought, maybe have a look here on "Buy and Sell" and type in trainer kite, not very expensive and probably cheaper than a trip to the hospital, or just look up your local kite shop or any that sell online in Australia, if you want new.

dafish
dafish
NSW
1654 posts
NSW, 1654 posts
27 Jun 2013 7:50pm
Please don't use it. In 15 to 18 knots a 2 mt kite can kick your ass if you don't pay attention. A six mt kite can do MUCH more damage. Learn flying skills on 2.5 mt kite that has a safety flagging line. They aren't that expensive to buy or find second hand. Save the bigger kite for later when you really understand what you are doing.
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
27 Jun 2013 8:17pm
Dafish people were flying these things for years without all that much harm before kitesurfing came along and rewrote the safety rule book. It can be done with common sense.

Tosh - if you fly it, use your head.
1. Space downwind - 100m minimum directly downwind of you with no fences cows utes etc
2. Not gusty - somewhere the wind has a steady clean path to you, not over trees/buildings etc
3. Well under 15kts, preferably as steady wind as possible around 10-12kts
4. Never tie yourself to anything. You can go up the lenth of the rope then drop on your head and die. Happened in QLD a while back.
5. Getting air on land is never advised. By all means learn to fly but don't get cocky and start sending the kite up trying to lift off the ground. Save that for over water with a depowerable kite.
6. If you get pulled forward off you feet, don't dig your heels in and fight it, rather flop forward and drag on your belly. You might go headfirst thru cow poo but you'll be less likely to break anything.
7. Don't tether yourself to the kite in any way. You have space, use it. If you get in any kind of trouble, yanked hard, or more than an inch off the ground, just let it go.

If you do all that, probably can learn safely.

Or you could sell it in the buy/sell section and save a few extra bucks and buy something like this:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Kitesurfing-Kites/~aj2u6/2013-Ozone-Ignition-Trainer-Kite-16Mt-16-metre.aspx?search=0cZFPRBE5LgN2Vh5TPsXnUqr5IXyPRUV
psychojoe
psychojoe
WA
2241 posts
WA, 2241 posts
27 Jun 2013 7:24pm
kiteboy dave said not that much harm, ha ha
people still die every year
spend the money for a 2or3m trainer kite
this is not a sport to be cheap in
you can set-up for $2,000
but by the time you've had lessons and lost a board or two it's realistic that you'll spend 4 or 5 large
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
27 Jun 2013 10:32pm
psychojoe said..

kiteboy dave said not that much harm, ha ha
people still die every year
spend the money for a 2or3m trainer kite
this is not a sport to be cheap in
you can set-up for $2,000
but by the time you've had lessons and lost a board or two it's realistic that you'll spend 4 or 5 large


Kiting less than a year and you already know it all, well done.

When I started getting interested in power kites there was no kitesurfing and the term depower hadn't even been invented.
This was the ultimate goal, to get 2m off the ground. This is a skytiger, an ancient foil with massive pull and no kill switch.


Guess what? People bought and sold them every day in this folded up thing made of big bits of paper called "Trading Post". You had to read on the front and then turn the pages yourself and scan down the columns to find the ad. Then you bought it sight unseen by posting a cheque in the mail and then you learned how to handle it by trial and error. And yet somehow people survived.

You most certainly don't need to spend 4k to get into kitesurfing. You can, if you choose, but you can go other ways too.

dafish
dafish
NSW
1654 posts
NSW, 1654 posts
28 Jun 2013 9:18am
Kiteboy Dave, while what you say is true, having the perfect environment to fly that kind of kite is rare. He would get more time and benefit from a smaller trainer, get more skills quicker and be more likely in one piece ready for his lessons. YOU know how quickly things can go pear shaped. Yes, it can be done, and he might remained unscathed....however, the smarter choice, in my opinion, would be to get the trainer. Once he is schooled and can react and anticipate, the break out the beast.....
ToshAuer
ToshAuer
QLD
24 posts
QLD, 24 posts
30 Jun 2013 9:46pm
Hey well I just got in touch with a local kite instructor who's over teaching in Canada atm who is organising a kite for hire for cheap for as long as I want so I think I'll leave the danger machine in its bag for a while.
puppetonastring
puppetonastring
WA
3619 posts
WA, 3619 posts
1 Jul 2013 3:10am
ToshAuer said..
Just how dangerous would it be to use?

Tosh


Simple answer - ridiculously dangerous.
But just as important is to realise you cant learn anything - other than launch & land - by flying a kite of this size anywhere but in the water.
Until you are moving freely under the power of the kite there is nothing you can learn.
"Trainer Kites" are small kites because only a very small kite will allow you to fly it in the power zones while standing stationary at the controls.
Your old 6M foil will probably generate as much power as an 8 or 9M regular kite = NOT a trainer.

The advice to "use your head" is unnecesary as thats where you will inevitably end up if you fly this thing on land. And it could be the 1st bit to hit the ground well beyond the 100M safety zone. Old foils & death loops are closely related. 100M then is nothing.
golfaru
golfaru
9 posts
9 posts
1 Jul 2013 10:07pm
ToshAuer, I asked the same question about a month ago (also a newbie), and basically got the same answer from everyone: don't do it. Then I took my first couple of lessons (in the water), and realized just how powerful the pull from the kite can be, even in low winds (10-12 knots) if you drop it into the power zone. Here's my simple explanation (of why not to practice on land): if there's enough wind to get your kite up at the edge of the window, then there's enough wind to drag you extremely hard when the kite drops into the power zone, at which point you should better be in the water.
ToshAuer
ToshAuer
QLD
24 posts
QLD, 24 posts
2 Jul 2013 12:38am
Yeah as I said I have got a local instructor who is renting me a trainer for a good price for as long as I want to get it dialled. So I guess I'll leave the big old dinosaur in its bag for a while. Although I had some ideas on how to fly it "safely". I was thinking about tying off either end of the bar back to the winch bar on the Ute so if I lost control I could let it go. Would of been wild but fun to see. Of well guess I'll do the safe thing will keep the Wife happy anyway
Dave Whettingsteel
Dave Whettingsteel
WA
1397 posts
WA, 1397 posts
2 Jul 2013 3:09pm
ToshAuer said..
Yeah as I said I have got a local instructor who is renting me a trainer for a good price for as long as I want to get it dialled. So I guess I'll leave the big old dinosaur in its bag for a while. Although I had some ideas on how to fly it "safely". I was thinking about tying off either end of the bar back to the winch bar on the Ute so if I lost control I could let it go. Would of been wild but fun to see. Of well guess I'll do the safe thing will keep the Wife happy anyway


Glad you didnt do that! I can imagine all sorts of ugly unforseen disasters where the lines to the ute fire up the kite in an unexpected direction.
Youre doing the right thing with an instructor. Takes a bit of time, but more than worth it in the medium term. Well done.
NSW, 4382 posts
2 Jul 2013 9:39pm
kiteboy dave said..

Dafish people were flying these things for years without all that much harm before kitesurfing came along and rewrote the safety rule book. It can be done with common sense.

Tosh - if you fly it, use your head.
1. Space downwind - 100m minimum directly downwind of you with no fences cows utes etc
2. Not gusty - somewhere the wind has a steady clean path to you, not over trees/buildings etc
3. Well under 15kts, preferably as steady wind as possible around 10-12kts
4. Never tie yourself to anything. You can go up the lenth of the rope then drop on your head and die. Happened in QLD a while back.
5. Getting air on land is never advised. By all means learn to fly but don't get cocky and start sending the kite up trying to lift off the ground. Save that for over water with a depowerable kite.
6. If you get pulled forward off you feet, don't dig your heels in and fight it, rather flop forward and drag on your belly. You might go headfirst thru cow poo but you'll be less likely to break anything.
7. Don't tether yourself to the kite in any way. You have space, use it. If you get in any kind of trouble, yanked hard, or more than an inch off the ground, just let it go.

If you do all that, probably can learn safely.

Or you could sell it in the buy/sell section and save a few extra bucks and buy something like this:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Kitesurfing-Kites/~aj2u6/2013-Ozone-Ignition-Trainer-Kite-16Mt-16-metre.aspx?search=0cZFPRBE5LgN2Vh5TPsXnUqr5IXyPRUV



Kiteboy Dave's advice is sound. Keep the wind you fly in low and listen to what he said. Definitely do not tether yourself to the ute, good way to get killed or maimed.
Watch this to understand the basics and even better still get a smaller kite!
If the kite is a Peter Lynn 2 line Peel, Ngen, just forget it. Is it 4 line or 2 line? What make and model?

www.kitepower.com.au/collections/kitesurfing/Trainer-Kites
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