Cabrinha Crossbow review

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poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
5 Jul 2005 2:47pm
found this on Kiteforum.com and thought i'd poach and post here
from http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2317710


We're on vacation in the Gorge with a bunch of our friends, one of whom is Cabrinha Rep Steve Gunn, our very good friend who happened to bring the new Crossbow with him. For those who haven't seen this kite yet, it's a radical departure from traditional inflatable kite design, in that it crosses inflatable struts and leading edge with foil kite principles and layout. There are only two in the whole country, and we're lucky enough to have one with us, thanks to Steve. Sorry - no pics, forgot to bring my camera's USB cable.

I rode the Crossbow yesterday at the Event's site after my husband, John, rode it the day before at Rufus. It's a very different ride from a traditional inflatable kite, so different that we have taken to calling it the "Space Ship." It looks really different in the air (and on land as well), and it feels incredibly different as well. It looks like, and rides like, an alien craft.

Before I describe the ride, I should write a quick disclaimer. I'm rather 'fuzzy' thanks to a wonderful Oregon Pinot Noir, but I'll try my best to be cogent.

Kite position -
The first thing I noticed was the kite's flying position. It flies deep in the window compared to my Nitro, which threw me off. Normally, a kite that deep in the window generates an enormous amount of pull, but this kite produced a very even, relaxed feel. When you pull the bar to dive, the kite goes to nearly 90 degrees, almost instantly, which is disorienting at first. Normally, you pull your kite and it gradually dives toward the water at around 45 degrees. With this kite, you pull and it dives at 90 degrees or more, in a blink. It reacts very quickly, very controlled. It is extremely aggressive and quite fast. You yank the bar and the kite dives at the water - as my husband says, "it's like a kite robot - it just dives at the water the second you think about it." It's like you're flying on very short lines (like 10 meter lines). From the beach, it looks like the kite is twisted - it creates an interesting optical illusion. From shore, most people think it's in an S-shape. Its foil-like shape makes it pivot extremely fast.

Low-end range -
The next thing I noted was the incredible low-end range of the kite. I went out very early. Everyone was on 16m kites, and while I would normally be on 14, I took out the 9m Crossbow. While everyone else was slogging and working their kites, I was boosting 15 feet of air. It's got a pretty sick low-end, much more than expected. Very shocking. I shot upwind (which isn't a huge issue in the Gorge, but I went way farther, way faster, than anyone else on the water). I think I was the only one out there having fun! I was surprised that I was planning, much less jumping with lots of air between me and the water.

Float -
I was impressed and surprised by the float of this kite. I didn't boost any higher than normal (although I wasn't very powered), but I must say that I was surprised to be jumping at all on a 9m while most peoples' 16s were falling out of the sky. It takes a couple reaches to get used to, but I was floating much longer than usual, which made for some entertaining egg-beater jumps. When I was ready to hit the water, I was still at the apex, wondering when I would land. There were times when I said to myself, "OK, ready to come down now. Ok, how about now?" but I still had a couple of seconds in the air before reaching water. I would spot my landing, but hung there, wondering what other grab to try. I want to take it out when I'm powered to see if I do boost higher than normal, but I can definitely say that the amount of hang-time threw me off and blew me away.

Depower/power control -
Know when a gust hits you and you have to edge like crazy to keep control? With this kite, all you do is push the bar out, and suddenly, you're going slowly. This was the most shocking part of the kite. It was very odd, but the only way I can explain it is that you have absolute control with the kite. I was speeding fast with a gust, approaching a very shallow sand spit and hoping to slow down while flattening out the board to avoid an epic tumble. I pushed the bar out, and I was instantly de-powered, going slowly with a flat board while the gust pushed through. I couldn't believe it. You have total power with the kite, and it's instantaneous. While carving hard and hitting the lip on big swell going port, I turned and hit a huge swell going starboard. I pushed out the bar out and let the swell push me. When I pushed the bar out, there was no wind in the kite to pull me forward, I just let the swell propel me. It was really surprising to have such instantaneous de-power ability. The thing I kept thinking was "Wow, this thing will be insane in the waves at Waddell." I can't help but think of how cool this kite will be in the big waves on the coast - to be able to have this kind of de-power range in the waves will allow you to truly surf the waves without getting yanked through them.

Kite reaction -
Being around 120 pounds without an ACL in one knee, I'm not a huge fan of kite loops, I'll admit. It's just too hard on my knees. I get too yanked around and land too hard. But the Crossbow kite loops without any power what-so-ever (unless you pull the bar in, in which case you'll get full kite-looping power). I would jump and loop the kite mid-air without any change in the direction of travel. It was rather surprising. Again, I can only imagine how amazing this feature would be in the wave when quick turns really come in handy.

Bar-pressure -
I'm not sure where, but I heard that this kite has a lot of bar-pressure. I normally ride Cabrinha Nitros, and I found that this kite has less bar-pressure than the Nitro (which to me, doesn't feel like it has very much bar pressure). It's very light on the bar, especially when sheeted out. When sheeted-in, it's got a normal feel to me. When on land, when the wind was gusting crazily, I didn't even feel it when I sheeted out.

Back on the Nitro-
I love my Nitros, but after I gave the kite back to Steve and was on my 7.5 Nitro when the wind picked up, I kept screaming "what's wrong with my kite?!" I didn't realize that with the Space Ship, whenever a back-breaking gust hit, I just sheeted out and didn't feel it. But with my normal kite, I felt every kick of the freight-train-like gusts. The Space Ship was steady and in total control no matter if there as gust or not, but on my normal kite, the kite fell back in the window in a lull and powered up in the big gusts. I didn't realize how steady the Space Ship made the ride until I was off it.

Distractions -
The only problem I had with the kite were the distractions. People kept riding up and screaming "what is that thing?," "Can I try it," and "What's it like? Is it sick?"

Yes, it is sick. It's truly sick. When I came in, my only question for Steve was, "Will you report me to the police if I steal it from you?" It is not leaving my car. No question.

I've been kiting for 5 years now, and this was one of the most fun days I've had on a kite, and the wind wasn't even that great when I rode it! It's a really fun kite, and has such a different feel that I will always call it "The Space Ship." I think it comes out sometime in August - I encourage you to try it if you can. It's so different, and so much fun. For me it redefined kiting.
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
11 Jul 2005 2:50pm
found this one as well on http://www.zwissler.com/userreviews/show_review.php?Ratings_Index=1884
Not as glowing as the other.......i am just sooooooo keen to fly one of these things.


So here I am flying about the Gorge on a typical wacky 12mph-30mph day, and along comes this spaceship looking thing. Holy crap, that's the Crossbow (9m.)

The guys were nice enough to let me take it for a spin (thanks guys!) Here are my findings...

First Impressions:
DEPOWER! This thing goes from full on powered to trainer kite like pull in about 8 inches of sheeting. It's a little unnerving at first because you can quickly lose track of what the kite is doing and have the feeling that it must have luffed and fell out of the sky because you can't feel it anymore, but its still flying merrily. Cool!

When riding the power control was really quite something. Pull back on the bar for some power, sheet out when you got too much. Its like your sheeting on your regular kite, but 10x more effective.

Speed:
Because of the effective sheeting of the kite and low drag, it rides very fast, which I like a lot. You really get a feeling of control like I haven't felt before on a traditional kite.

What about steering?:
It turns fast, truly pivots. Crank it hard and it spins like a top. Anyone could do kiteloops on this kite.

Jumping:
Kind of disappointed here, I don't think flat kites will be known for all out jumping performance like you might think. The one advantage is you could go out in normally overpowering conditions on a bigger kite and use the depower to set you up for some lofty jumps, but it just doesn't have the explosive lift of an "C" shape kite. I tried jumping it a number of different ways, the best ones where were when I didn't send it too far, those jumps weren't super high, but it did hang pretty good. I watched as a more experienced rider took it out, he did get some good jumps on it, but still not the huge boosts that you can get when you know what to do on a typical kite.

Bar Pressure:
This seems to be another area of disadvantage, during a few gusts I felt like I was holding nearly all the power in my arms, almost like being unhooked. Also to really take advantage of this kite, I doubt you would want to ride with it powered against a stopper ball, then you wouldn't be able to take advantage of its sheeting to control power. So those that are normally used to riding powered against the stopper ball, may not find this style of kite desirable.

Bar:
The bar I tried was a prototype, so I am not sure how much is fixed in production, but it did seem to be quite heavy and complicated. The double pulley system especially adds a great deal of complexity to things, and I'd be worried how serviceable all the components would be if anything were to break. But again, this was a prototype...

Relaunching:
I never got a chance to try it, but it seemed that relaunching was pretty instantaneous. Just pull on one line and it goes. Nice!

Upwind:
Seemed around average, I think you could get more upwind out of it once you had the feel for the sheeting dialed.

Range:
I think with the sheeting control this kite could have awesome range, especially at the high end.

Low end:
Not sure that there are any real breakthrough here. In lulls I had to work the kite the same as I would my regular 9m.

Conclusion:
The flat style kite is revolutionary for the beginner kiter or an all out safety solution for anyone. If you're the type who takes safety of utmost importance, than this is the kite for you. The ability to instantly shutdown the power at any time is just awesome in that regard.

However, if you feel pretty comfortable with the current feel of your kite and its range then you probably wouldn't feel a big benefit to going to this type of kite. It is a fundamental shift in the way you will fly your kite, and for some that's not necessarily a good thing.

I talked to other experienced riders who took the kite out, and nobody was sure if they would switch or not. Everyone was impressed by the depower aspects though, that is definitely one part of this kite that has not been over hyped.

I think also its fair to mention that the Windwing Rapture that has been out for some time now is also a flat/depowerable kite. Windwing has taken off in the Gorge, their popularity has exploded in just a few months. The riders I have talked to who fly their kites all say the same things about depower and control. So I think they should be given the credit for being first to market with this new brand of kite.

Still the Cabrinha Crossbow lends a great deal of legitimacy to this design direction, and no doubt all others will follow now. These new flat kites are a huge breakthrough for our sport in terms of accessibility and safety. Good job guys.

Now, I suggest you give one demo and come to your own conclusions...
elizabethb
elizabethb
QLD
2081 posts
QLD, 2081 posts
11 Jul 2005 6:10pm
Thanks Mike The first review kind of made me think twice about the crossbow... but the second review certainly makes me feel more confindent about my future kite purchase... I thought the Element had unbelieveable safety features, but the safety in this kite certainly sounds promicing! Cheers

Elizabeth - Wello Kiter
carbine
carbine
WA
1449 posts
WA, 1449 posts
11 Jul 2005 7:17pm
btw, the second review is by dax who is a best pimp. While I believe he is trying to be as honest as possible, it will still be tainted by his pimpness.
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
12 Jul 2005 2:09pm
more of the same here
wx.iwindsurf.com:443/

I troll the internet for hours looking looking wish they'd hurry the hell up and get one for us to play with. Darn manufacturers.[}:)]


Advanced riders - for experienced riders, the kite is very responsive, it's got fabulous depower range, it'll be great in the waves, and it boost HUGE. (By the way, my husband, John, was out on it yesterday and dialed it in while we were at Rufus and Roosevelt. His biggest jumps are about 30 feet on the Nitro, but yesterday, he was boosting 40-45 footers. It was rather unreal). As for wake-style, we haven't tried unhooked moves on it yet, so I can't provide a review for wake-style. Powered moves are great on this kite, as you can do them at full power or reduced power. We have experienced great performance out of this kite in a range of wind conditions, from light air to heavy wind and freight-train gusts.

Intermediate riders - For riders who can ride upwind and jump, I think they'll also like the kite a lot. You don't have to send the kite at all in order to jump huge - just edge like you're going to do a railey (sp?), pop off the water and pull the bar in and you'll sky. Also, for those of us who are lighter riders and have trouble going at warp-speed without getting chucked off the water when a gust hits, you have full control of the power with this kite, so it allows you to ride faster without the fear of getting wiped off the water. I also think the kite will be great for people who are working on their jumps, as it's easy to get big air and hang time on this kite.

Beginners - The kite relaunches almost on its own, so that's a huge benefit to beginners. It's also very forgiving, due to the immense depower, which again, will be great for beginners. It's a quick turning kite, so beginners with good kite control will like it, but those who want a slower-riding kite might not. But again, it's got such incredible depower that this might be more important to beginners than the kite's speed.

The kite is very responsive and extremely stable, which I really liked a lot. It wasn't at all twitchy. It's a really fun ride and I can't find anything wrong with it. I'm pretty critical of kites, so that's saying a lot.

If you're trying to figure out if you'd like to get one, I'd suggest that you give it a try. It's got such a different ride and feel that you really need to try it to see if you'll like it. Steve Gunn will be demo'ing it at 3rd Ave soon, but there may be other demos going on soon at other sites - maybe the Cabrinha website lists demo days and locations.
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
12 Jul 2005 2:15pm
quote:
I wont be sold on any of these kites till I try them

I agree that should be the thing with any new kite. i mean if your going to spend 000's you want to know your getting what you want.
I mean would you spend 000's on a car without a test drive?
kiterdan
kiterdan
WA
680 posts
WA, 680 posts
12 Jul 2005 3:43pm
apparently some people are already sold on the hellfish and the crossbow!
mc
mc
NSW
357 posts
mc mc
NSW, 357 posts
12 Jul 2005 9:26pm
guys

great reviews, try the f one m5, basically the same concept (all over europe) , huge hang, huge air, massive dee power, same safety concepts (push bar and release power ect) traditional kite feel. the only reason knowone talks about them on this site is becuase knowone has them in oz. i bought a 12m in march from boracay, every person that rode one bought one, I did a review at that time stating much the same as everything stated above , . Its amazing what advertising does isn't it.

great development for kiting all round, I'll be trying a crossbow in 4 weeks time in maui, I'll do a comparison to my f one and let you know the results.
By the way, anyone elese got an f one m5 yet?? and experienced the same results??
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
12 Jul 2005 9:40pm
i think chop chop (dachopper) is having a torrid and passionate affair with a quiver of F ones, he just got an eight if i remember his post recently
Was very happy with it too
dachopper
dachopper
WA
1802 posts
WA, 1802 posts
13 Jul 2005 3:54pm
an 8, 10m5 , and a 12m5, have only used the dream3-8m so far, for the price i paid which was between 1000 - 1250 each with everything... I wouldn't have gone any other way. They will be more expensive if they ever retail out here probably 1600-1800.
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
13 Jul 2005 5:48pm
Oh man oh man...I just touched one! A beautiful yellow 12m beast, I can't wait to fly it, the first or second one in all of Kanga Land.

Seems light for a 12m, good craftsmanship with many segments on the leading edge. Will be interesting how the bridle system holds up over time.

Come on Summer.

Hoo Roo
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
13 Jul 2005 6:20pm
quote:
I just touched one

now i want to touch you....
Kite Dr
Kite Dr
WA
24 posts
WA, 24 posts
13 Jul 2005 8:09pm
I am riding one tomorrow [}:)][}:)][}:)]
kiterdan
kiterdan
WA
680 posts
WA, 680 posts
13 Jul 2005 9:54pm
where abouts are you going?? Got too much time on my left hand (right hands broken!) and need to see some kiting...plus would be interesting to check out
carbine
carbine
WA
1449 posts
WA, 1449 posts
14 Jul 2005 1:07am
quote:
Originally posted by gruezi

Oh man oh man...I just touched one! A beautiful yellow 12m beast, I can't wait to fly it, the first or second one in all of Kanga Land.

Seems light for a 12m, good craftsmanship with many segments on the leading edge. Will be interesting how the bridle system holds up over time.

Come on Summer.

Hoo Roo



gruezi you out tommorow, if so where and when. I want to see this thing.
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
14 Jul 2005 1:12am
apparently the only model in perth will be at woodies tomorrow, (thurs) from 10am....if there is wind so i am told
getting a turn will be challenging though.....or so i am led to believe!!
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
14 Jul 2005 8:21pm
Hey Dr., what a bummer...you get to be the first rider of the new beast in WAAAAAAAAAA and you have no wind....is that possible?

Hope you got to stroke it again at least......keep us posted we are patient with baited breast.

And Carbs, I'm close to the source but there was no wind today...61% chance of no wind tomorrow....the Dr. will know.

gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
19 Jul 2005 6:03pm
I can't help myself, but I saw it fly today...so cool.

Magic day in Perth today. First good winds in weeks. Steady N from morning till evening, pure bliss. Flew the 10m Aero II, then 14m Box....and always nearby was the beautiful yellow thing.

It is just so fast for a 12m.....a loopers delight. Noticed that the jumps were very floaty too. The interviewed rider felt that he could hold down the 12m in 25-30 knots.....seems believable from what I saw. Also, the jumps did not really seem higher....but definately more floaty. The rider always had much time to adjust for landings after tricks. The kite behaved a bit like the Venom (mattress), in that when the bar is let go, the kite auto-zeniths.

At the end of a majic day and the wind was dropping, the beast rider was still upwind....while I on my 14m had to pack it up. Both riders weigh 90kg.

But kiting is kiting is kiting, and today was FN great! Got my best air many times and the weather was like Summer, 21 degrees C Got to love these tough Perth winters.

Just maybe someday I'll get to ride such a beast....yea
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
20 Jul 2005 4:41pm
ahhh the crossbow, the new sex toy of the sky......

Saw it in flight today, what a joy to behold. It seems "all the hype is true"
Could not believe it, out at woodies northside today, windmeter reading 21-25knots, screaming northerly, gusts probably a bit more dare i say up to 28kn. Anyway i couldnt hold down my ten metre, not through lack of trying, friend on his ten was well powered and kite wobbling around like jelly in gusty conditions.
The crossbow.....initially totally depowered by a nervous rider, who once getting it up, and getting on the water realised that the amazing depower is true, powered up a little, and had probably the most fun out of us all.
The kite sat where he put it, no luffing, no jellyfishing no nothing. sat there happy.
The rider was getting big boosts, floaty air, fantastic to watch.
dalestanton
dalestanton
WA
272 posts
WA, 272 posts
21 Jul 2005 9:12pm
I am in lurve. time to put down my poor nitro
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
22 Jul 2005 5:57pm
I know how you feel Dale...I'm also in luv

There was no wind today, but got out anyhow. I have just made the first modifications to the X-Bow bar set up. I'll see how the mods. work out before commenting further.

The set-up as it comes is easy and everything works perfect.....a real joy to set up I am just a very fussy rider and like to have mutiple safty options, especially when changing to a whole different style of kite.

The kite is a kite flyer's dream! The 12m is fast and powerful....the peed of my 10m Aero II and more power than my 14m Boxer. As a kite, it was all that I thought it would be. I'm a happy camper

I will be burning my old kites.

Can't wait to try it in some wind.
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
23 Jul 2005 2:55pm
i got mine today too.....a bannana yellow beast of the sky
It is wonderful. i too have fallen in lourve

Tis a joyus day....
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
23 Jul 2005 8:12pm
Ok, let us hear it from you other guys....there were 4 of the suckers out at Woodies today.

I had 4 hours is light wind, too much walking and bar pulling. My elbows are killing me.

Still waiting for decent wind.
HungLong
HungLong
WA
859 posts
WA, 859 posts
24 Jul 2005 1:24pm
Well dont know about your walking and pulling you bar a lot gruezi...

But my brother in-law and I had an awesome session on the north side... We were on 131 & 135cm boards with 16 & 18m kites up...

Those cross bows sure do look very interesting... Dale seamed to be having fun, 12m on a big directional in 14 gusting 18knts... Good looking kite I thought, while others thought it looked alittle strange but complimented on it's performance... Havent had a chance to ride one, would'nt turn down a session if offered one...

regards browneee
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
24 Jul 2005 1:32pm
hung long

i'll let you try mine if i can have a blast on the BFK
I've just bought mine, so i reckon its gonna be no wind for some time....
puppetonastring
puppetonastring
WA
3619 posts
WA, 3619 posts
24 Jul 2005 3:02pm
quote:
Originally posted by poor relative
I've just bought mine, so i reckon its gonna be no wind for some time....


Yep - and its all ur fault PR
Y dont u just stay @ werk an never buy anything then the rest of us might get some wind.
While we r all waiting how about a review of how to pack & unpack the new X-toy
HungLong
HungLong
WA
859 posts
WA, 859 posts
24 Jul 2005 8:02pm
PR, it's a done deal mate... we'll T it up soon...

regards browneee
Force
Force
WA
35 posts
WA, 35 posts
24 Jul 2005 9:15pm
sore arms, walking and big directionals....
thort this thing was good for 10 knots & was super fast turning?
hmm.
puppetonastring
puppetonastring
WA
3619 posts
WA, 3619 posts
25 Jul 2005 10:05am
quote:
Originally posted by taterchip

Mark Shinn on his crossbow...
http://www.dlight.net/html/webcambig.htm


38kts on 9M
Wonder how long he was up there
Praps he was just passing by on his way north
swinginginthewind
swinginginthewind
WA
281 posts
WA, 281 posts
25 Jul 2005 10:45am
The title for that pic should surely be "Why kitesurfing is better than pole dancing."
puppetonastring
puppetonastring
WA
3619 posts
WA, 3619 posts
25 Jul 2005 1:26pm
Has anyone found a test-drive review of the 16M
Especially keen to get news on the 'real' min. upwind rating
From what Ive seen Im hopeful that the 16M XBow will turn & fly at least as fast as my current 15M (min around 12kts) AND it will be that good way within that long elusive &/or marginal sub 10Kts category.
Keen to know too what down size will be needed to allow a fair crossover when it starts blowing
Anyone help out with either here
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