metalmongrel said...

I just want to pass on some infromation I have found in regards to Marine Parks which has been overlooked by those spruking it. If people PM me I can provide links to documents that show that:
1.) As I understand it the MPA's in SA are actually being created as a consequence of a directive given by the IUCN (International Union for the Conservation of Nature) and by the World Bank.
2.) The World Bank's own report shows that MPA's can cost up to $27 million per square kilometre to maintain but generally cost $775 USD per square kilometre and only half of the running cost is recouped through economical benefit brought about by the MPA. They clearly suggest a user pays system to fund the parks ie another fee to kite (if we are allowed).
3.) A document produced by the IUCN which is sited in the Marine Park Technical document to support the proposal suggests that there are better ways to protect the environment then what is being proposed.
4.) The suggestion that the MPA's will have minimal effect on users is not the whole picture. The problem is at local level where government departments can and will change purposes of use at will infact it states in one document by the IUCN that the descision making process in some circumstances be taken out of the hands of stakeholders ie you get told.
5.) Kiting will be effected as we have international agreements through various organisations to protect migratory species including seabirds. Therefore if you kite in areas near such species there will probably be seasonal if not total bans on kiting given there is a misguided belief that kites and people scare them and stop them feeding.
Don't let the PR campaign leave us underprepared and in a situation like Mullaloo. Have a read of the technical document and associated references before you make a descision. The IUCN has put a deadline of extending MPA's globally by 2012 so make a submission to the DEH detailing your concerns. Their selling the proposal through experience gained in 2005 with the pilot where a driver of the MPA stated "People will agree to MPA's as long as it doesn't effect them" and their trying hard to tell everybody that they won't be effected.

G'day metalmongrel,

My name is Andrew Burnell, I work for DEH at Marine Parks. My phone number is 8463 4854. I am happy to answer questions on this forum, by pm or call.

1. The IUCN doesn't give us "directives". Australia is a voluntary signatory to the treaty, which means that we have agreed to conserve our marine environment. SA gave a comittment to the Commonwealth to develop a representative system of marine protected areas as part of an Australia wide system and incorporated it into the SA State strategic plan. SA Parliament passed the Marine Parks Act 2007. The Act is the instructions that define how it shall be done.

Many countries are implementing marine parks and it is happening around Australia. For many years we have been developing terrestrial protected areas but the sea has been left behind. As kitesurfers, you want a healthy marine environment to enjoy, if you are interested we look forward to working with you over the next couple of years as management plans for the marine parks are developed.

2. The Minister (MEC) has clearly stated that this is about protecting the marine environment and will not result in fees to users, (most recently in a letter to the Editor of the Advertiser last week).

3. There are many ways to protect the environment. Spatial management is just one of them. Each has its own benefits and drawbacks. They are used in combination to best effect. I encourage anyone who is interested to read the technical report, you can find a pdf here:
http://www.environment.sa.gov.au/marineparks/about/tech_report.html

4. They cannot. The Act clearly states that initial management plans must go before both Houses of Parliament and that changes to management plans must go through public consultation and be refered to Parliament's ERD Committee (Environment, Resources and Development) If the ERD objects then it must go before Parliament. This is how Parliament decided they wanted to be involved. The Act is on our website here: www.environment.sa.gov.au/marineparks/about/legislation.html

5. Kiting could be affected in a particular area if it was having an impact on protected species. Just like any other activity that impacts on protected species.
I'm not aware of any places where that situation occurs at present and as far as I know the issue was not raised when marine parks staff had a meeting with SAKSA late last year. Fundamental in the development of marine parks is maintaining the lifestyles and livelihoods that depend on a healthy marine environment, and that includes watersports.

As far as I can tell Mullaloo was nothing to do with Marine Parks, but was/is a Council proposal using their by-laws for public safety reasons. A Google search for kitesurfing ban returns 29,000+ results from all over the world. I had a quick look at some, the first few pages include OZ, Brazil, Dubai, UK ...and they are consistently public safety issues not related to marine parks.
Marine parks is about conserving our environment for future generations and we would welcome your support.

jordy said...

Well that just put someone well and truly back in their box!

Jordy, sorry, tone is a bit hard to manage on a keyboard?? wasn't trying to put anyone back in their box. Just trying to provide information and opportunities for people to read for themselves as metalmongrel also encouraged.

My aim is to encourage people to read beyond the hype and use some critical literacy to make an informed descision. I have not been put back in my box as I currently have documents that are referred to in the SA Marine Parks document that detail many flaws in the current proposal but have not been highlighted in the SA document. I still have a number of questions:
1.) Where is the research to show the economic and social effects of Marine Parks?
2.) Why are figures being quoted on increased biomass after being made a marine park that include places like APO island that was cyanide and dynamited. What has this got to do with South Australian waters.
3.) If Marine parks aren't about fish management why is the advertising campaign suggesting that the size of the fish you'll catch will increase?
4.) How many people know about the coastal reserves (terrestrial areas) that are going to be included in the park?
5.) Why is the Adelaide coastline excluded when in at least two detailed documents it is identified as being under threat ?
I am not coming at this from apoint of ignorance as I have a background in Marine science. I have bothered to inform myself rather then being blindly convinced. The idea of a forum is to create open discussion and this has been achieved. It is interesting that some ignorant people with little to do use it to follow other users around threads to launch immature attacks indicating that they themselves are ill informed and all to ready to use anonimity and distance as bravery and courage.
The point is that kiting will be effected in some areas, we do need to conserve our Marine environment and this process is connected to global bodies including the IUCN and the World Bank. My concern is that it needs to be done with more transparency, better science and with more data particular to our state waters. Like I said if your interested PM me, call Marine Parks as well, get as much info as you can and make a descision. Thanks for your input Marine Parks, I will give you a call.

I agree Rooboy that the technical document may not be understood by some people and that in itself is a problem. I have raised these issues in the SAKSA forum so that people who have not looked at the document can be informed. I've had my 2 cents worth. I just hope that when it goes through we don't all suffer because we have agreed to something based on blind faith and apathy.

Someone suggested that this might not neccesarily be the best forum for a marine parks discussion. One of your members drew my attention to the marine parks post by metalmongrel.

If you are really interested in marine parks and what recreational fishers are saying you might want to try this forum: http://www.strikehook.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,78/topic,2217.0/
I think you have to sign in as a member to see it but it has been very active on this topic for many months now. Thanks, Andy

The bottom line in all of this is will we be stopped from kiting in marine parks ?

The park that effects me is enormous, its a line drawn across the gulf from below Whyalla to below Pt Pirie. Everything north of that line is a park !

This affects the three largest regional population centres in South Australia and unfortunately it has been proven time and time again that what a government says it’s going to do and what it actually does through legislation and regulation are totally different

Buell said...


The bottom line in all of this is will we be stopped from kiting in marine parks ?

The park that effects me is enormous, its a line drawn across the gulf from below Whyalla to below Pt Pirie. Everything north of that line is a park !

This affects the three largest regional population centres in South Australia and unfortunately it has been proven time and time again that what a government says it’s going to do and what it actually does through legislation and regulation are totally different

Bottom line: NO. NUP.

In a restricted access zone, nobody may enter, as you can't enter therefore you couldn't kite. Restricted access areas will be tiny if at all in each park. For example, in the draft done back in 2005 for Encounter Marine Park. There was a 200m wide restricted access zone put around one of the Pages Islands, to keep people away from breeding sea lions (you wouldn't be kitesurfing there anyway). That draft park plan was less than 0.1% restricted access zone. I know you guys are sensitive about bans (as I have found out) but I don't think that is a marine parks issue at all. Enjoy the wind!

In all respect Andrew,
In Tasmania an ecobusiness was shutdown because protected birds moved into the area (Mercury Newspaper), I have a raptor report that sites a number of activities as being 'high threat' and suggests a model from overseas where a 1500m to 3000m exclusion zone be implemented around nesting sites. There is a push to stop vehicle access, dog walking etc to beaches because of it disturbing birds such as hooded plovers and we are to belive that kites won't be included in this ? No disrespect but are you able to give gaurentees that kiting won't be banned in marine parks? I followed your advice and read the legislation and have more questions then answers. I am interested in the parks effect on kiting not fishing so this is an appropriate forum, my last post was a little off track an I appologise, point taken. The bottom line is this-inside the external boundaries, after zoning can the DEH guarentee that 1) Kiting will not be effected, (2.) Permits will not need to be aquired to kite within multiuse zones, (3) kiting will not be banned seasonally or permanently in the vacinity of protected migratory birds, (4) kiting will be permitted in an area even after such birds move into an area and (5) The minister will not use his discretion as per the MPA act 2007 to prevent or in anyway effect the sport of kitesurfing?

Hi Andrew, thanks for the reply. My first question (1.) asked if the DEH could give a guarantee that kitesurfing wouldn't be effected inside MPAs not wether there would be blanket bans, a different question completely. (2.) I may be jeopardizing my own spots here but I can easily provide the locations of at least 5 sea eagle nesting sites that are close to built up areas and would effect kitsurfers and surfers if an issue was made of it (not to mention newly emerging fur seal colonies.) (3.) I, like many people, understand that the external boundaries, other then changing jurstictional control of a massive portion of the states waters, won't have any effect on users initially however it paves the way for further zoning which, as you have said, could prevent kitesurfing in some areas. (4.) I have read most of the documents you have cited (thanks anyway) and have read many of the documents used to construct them and, in my opinion, a fair bit of cherry picking of information has occurred. I don't accept that just because a panel of experts has reviewed something that we should all just accept it as being so......DDT and other 'science expert safe' situations justify my apprehension. (5.) Given you have a wealth of knowledge in this area is it possible to get some references about the way eco tourism has damaged the Galapogas islands. After all increasing tourist trade might be a good selling point for the accountants but isn't too many people using the marine and terrestrial environment the root problem anyway ? Hence the sanctury zones and need for MPAs. I noticed in a MPA video from NZ that tourism (ie divers) had led to an unnatural readjustment of bidoversity through fish feeding activities suggesting that even that needed to be monitored. The IUCN definition of a marine park is a good read to. I just can't trust that with Australia and many government departments (as per the list of members I read last night) being a member of this orgasnisation (the IUCN, which as I have said is connected to the World bank and the G8 countries- thats a good read to) that what we get won't be very different to what is being offered and many of us in rural coastal areas won't have to find new places to kite or fish or even work.

they were towing in and pissed off a couple of locals who new who to call. Locals thought if u can paddle in fk the jet ski off - fair call.

Marine Parks said...

walshd said...

So when are the marine parks going to disclose ALL THE DETAILS of each marine park that has been proposed.

Around Whyalla and Cowell here, all my favourite fishing spots are included in the proposal.

I'm going to be pissed if some areas are closed to fishing (or closed to fishing certain species)


Pull the wool from our eyes!! Show us the details!!


(BTW, dont need an essay on this reply too)

or to keep it even shorter: you have it. we have not made management/zoning plans for each park. they will be developed over the next year or so with community input and you can comment on them mid to late 2010. marine parks will not be implemented until 2011/12.

WTF? you lot have been working to pass these marine parks since 2005, and you don't even know what exclusion zones, restrictions ect. are going to be detailed for each individual park and area.

And then expect us to agree and give input on a 'blank piece of art work'

I'm sorry, but I dont just walk into a bank and sign up for a morgage without knowing what house I'm buying first.



Marine Parks, we all know that a draft has been completed, and I'm sure the department knows what regulations, exclusion zones and fishing restrictions they are trying to pass without releasing those details to the public. You cant expect us to 'give input' on a blank piece of paper.
No matter how much you sugar coat and try to sell something. (house analogy again) If you dont let me inspect the property first and give me a definitive buying price, I am not going to purchase it.

Thanks Croc. I agree it has been great that Andy has spent his time answering questions in such a proffessional way.
The links below show what we may be up against.

Birds take flight at sight of men on boardsKitesurfers blamed for scaring migratory birds from sanctuary in New Zealand
Despite all of this we have been targeted and tagged by a tiny group of local environmentalists as a hazardous and destructive activity. In the last three years kiteboarders using Ruakaka river mouth have had to endure being yelled at, subjected to verbal abuse, threatened with weapons (including scissors and fence posts), had equipment interfered with, had our way impeded, photos taken, videos taken, and most recently a young American traveller was assaulted on the beach by one of the woman opposed to us using this area.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/birds-take-flight-at-sight-of-men-on-boards-1643981.html
THE GUYS ABOVE VOLUNTARILY DEVELOPED A CODE OF CONDUCT IN RESPONSE TO CONCERNS BUT WERE STILL TARGETED. RUAKAKA IS A MARINE RESERVE WITH NO BANS ON KITING YET ?

Mike Burrell at Noosa Kiteboarding had this too say:

"Ok, so heres the latest. The Noosa Council have decided that in exchange for being allowed to kite in the passage we will be banned from the frying pan(area inside the mouth), due to the disturbance of the birds.
All sunshine coast kiters beware as the lady who drafted the report about the birds and kiting impact has just been requested by the caloundra council to asses their kiting areas, Maroochy council seek to ban kiting in their rivermouth and soon they will all be one.
Seabreeze.com.au

Kitesurfers urge Wellfleet not to ban sportBy Marilyn Miller
Sat Feb 21, 2009, 10:00 AM EST
WELLFLEET - Jody Craven, Wellfleet native and former chief lifeguard, who has been kitesurfing for nine years, asked the selectmen last week to "educate themselves" with the facts about kitesurfing before they agree to a request from the Cape Cod National Seashore to join with them in banning kitesurfing on its beaches.
www.wickedlocal.com/wellfleet/town_info/government/x1658749155/Kitesurfers-urge-Wellfleet-not-to-ban-sport

If you read the entire article they are being banned because on lady has proclaimed herself an expert and, without scientific proof or research of any kind, decided that birds see kites as avian predators. I don't know what others have experienced but birds careless about my kite then they do about the people sneaking up on them to take photos (eco-tourists for example).

Minister's Press release:

Monday, 30 March 2009
CONSULTATION CLOSES BUT WORK CONTINUES ON MARINE PARK OUTER BOUNDARIES
Environment and Conservation Minister Jay Weatherill today closed the consultation period for marine park outer boundaries, announcing that pilot working groups will be established to look at several parks across the State and provide advice regarding the boundaries.
“I’d like to thank members of the public for their submissions - all of which will be carefully considered,” Mr Weatherill said.
During the eight-week consultation period, DEH staff travelled all around the state and spoke to more than 3000 people at 56 information sessions.
“Many people were pleased to hear that they could still fish in marine parks and that any sanctuary and restricted access zones - or no take areas - would be small areas within the marine parks and developed in consultation with local communities, the conservation sector and seafood industry,” Mr Weatherill said.
“They also were keen to move to the next stage of the marine parks process, which will pinpoint where these sanctuary and restricted access zones will be located.
“As a response to issues raised during the consultation I am establishing the working groups to suggest any appropriate boundary changes.
“The working groups will include representatives from the seafood industry, conservation sector, recreational sector, local government and State Government. Relevant native title holders also will be consulted.”
Advice from the groups will be provided directly to the Minister.
“I have asked the working groups to report their findings to me by the end of May,” Mr Weatherill said.
“Once the groups complete their work, I intend to establish similar groups for the remaining parks.
“These working groups will assist me in considering any alteration to the outer boundaries and to provide some preliminary advice for development of zones within the parks.
The next stage of the process will be to develop the zones within the marine parks. This will commence later this year.
The work developing the zones will then be carried out with the Marine Park Local Advisory Groups - groups of local users of each park.
Nominations for the Local Advisory Groups were due to close last week. However this will now be extended to the end of July.
“One of the issues raised in my discussions around the State was how people could get involved,” Mr Weatherill said.
“Therefore I’ve extended the period to nominate for the Local Advisory Groups to give people more time to get their nominations in.
“Similarly, the Park naming competition will continue until well into the zoning development stage, to give people all the time they need to come up with the names.”
DEH has received more than 2000 submissions about the marine park outer boundaries, as well as more than 200 nominations for local advisory groups.
Mr Weatherill recently visited the Eyre Peninsula and the South East where he heard from commercial operators and recreational fishers, local government representatives and small business operators.
He received feedback about concerns including the size of the parks and the lack of any initial proposals for zoning arrangements with the parks.
“People do have their concerns, but I have had a number of good discussions and I’m pleased that the seafood industry, recreational fishers, local government and conservation sector are now working together to help create a great marine parks system,” Mr Weatherill said.

Marine parks – Questions and answers

Why do we need marine parks in South Australia?
As South Australia’s population grows, so does the number of people living on the coast, and this is putting pressure on our marine environment.
Marine parks will help protect examples of all habitats found in the state’s waters, and thereby help conserve the full range of plant, fish and other animal species that rely on these surroundings.
Many people are unaware of the richness and uniqueness of our marine ecology. About 85 per cent of this marine life exists only in southern Australian waters. We need to protect this marine life for now and the future.
How have the locations of the marine parks been determined?Decisions about the park locations were made by applying 14 design principles, adopted by the Government in 2008, to the eight South Australian marine bioregions identified in a national program that began in the 1990s.
This work was overseen by an independent scientific working group comprising some of South Australia’s pre-eminent marine scientists.
To meet the design principles, the marine parks are located so that they include examples of all of the different habitats that occur in each bioregion. In doing so, they are also designed to include places that are particularly biologically rich (i.e. biodiversity “hotspots”).
The methods used to determine the location of the marine parks are consistent with world’s best practice.
Were threats to the state’s marine biodiversity taken into account when the marine park outer boundaries were developed?
Yes. The Government commissioned a comprehensive review of threats to the state’s marine biodiversity in 2002, which resulted in a 1200 page technical report (available at www.marineparks.sa.gov.au).
Such threats are being taken into account during the development of marine parks and in future park management plans, but threats are being anticipated and dealt with in their multiplicity rather than one by one.
Keeping marine habitats healthy will give them the best chance of resisting and/or adapting to threats such as polluted water discharges from land, climate change, and invasions of pest species and pathogens.
Will people be ‘locked out’ of marine parks?
No. The majority of waters within each marine park will continue to be available for a wide range of commercial and recreational activities, including fishing and boating.
There will be some small sanctuary and restricted access zones in each marine park where fishing will not be allowed in the interests of conservation.
Fishing from jetties, breakwaters and popular beaches inside marine parks will not be affected.
Will fees be charged for people to use marine parks?No. There will be no user fees in marine parks, for boating, fishing or other recreational activities.
How are marine parks different from fisheries management?
Fisheries management is about managing fishing and fish stocks under the Fisheries Management Act 2007, to ensure the long-term sustainability of the commercial and recreational fishing industries.
Marine parks are about protecting representative examples of everything in the sea, our marine biodiversity – much more than just the fish we catch and eat – and the biological and ecological links between them.
The Government of South Australia is committed to both marine parks and sustainable fisheries management, for the benefit of current and future generations.
Why have the outer boundaries been released for consultation without any details of the zoning arrangements?During the passage of the Marine Parks Act 2007, all parties agreed that there should be consultation on outer boundaries before management plans with zoning were developed. In accordance with the Act, the Government is therefore required by law to consult on the provisional outer boundaries.
The Government received more than 2200 submissions about the boundaries during the public comment period, which are currently under consideration.
In addition, three working groups have now been established to advise the Government on possible boundary changes to five of the marine parks (parks 1, 2, 6, 18 and 19). The working groups include representatives from the seafood industry, conservation sector, recreational sector, local government and State Government. Advice from the groups is to be provided to the Government by mid-2009. Once these groups complete their work, the Government intends to establish similar groups for the remaining 14 marine parks.
When will management plans with zoning arrangements be developed?Management plans with zoning for each marine park will be developed in consultation with the community and industry by about mid-2011.
Why are the marine parks so big?
Multiple-use marine parks need to be large if they are to be effective at delivering sound conservation outcomes with minimal impact on existing activities.
Large multiple-use marine parks will allow more flexibility when zoning arrangements are developed, and make it easier to locate the small sanctuary and restricted access zones in areas so they have little or no impact on current users.
Will marine parks hurt commercial fishing and aquaculture?No. Marine parks are being developed in close consultation with the fishing and aquaculture industries to have minimal impact on their current and future activities.
The Marine Parks Act 2007 commits the Government to paying fair and reasonable compensation for any commercial fishing operator affected by the development of marine parks.
The Government has repeatedly given assurances that there will be no impact on the aquaculture industry as a result of creating marine parks.
Will the Minister or the Government of the day be able to make changes to marine park zones in the future, to exclude fishers from larger areas?
No. Under the current legislation, any changes would need to be put to the community for consultation, and must follow a rigorous process involving assessment by the Environment, Resources and Development Committee (ERDC) of Parliament.
This is the same zone amendment process as set out in the Aquaculture Act 2001. The Government is considering strengthening this safeguard.
Why isn’t there a marine park around Adelaide?
There is. The Encounter Marine Park extends up the coastline to Christies Beach because of the significant healthy reef system in this area. This area is part of southern metropolitan Adelaide and has a population of 150,000.
The central metropolitan coast was not selected as a marine park site because there are similar areas of better quality in the region.
The purpose of marine parks is to conserve representative examples of the state’s healthy marine habitats, not to restore degraded areas. This is why many of the parks are located in relatively pristine areas, such as the West Coast and South East.
The problems of water quality and seagrass loss off the central metropolitan coast are unlikely to benefit from the presence of a marine park. These issues are being addressed through other Government programs.
Will marine parks stop the desalination plants at Port Bonython and Port Stanvac?No. Marine parks are not intended as a mechanism to stop coastal developments, such as desalination plants, marinas or resorts. Rather, marine parks will be zoned and managed so as to accommodate well-planned development in suitable areas, as determined through the current development assessment process.
Management plans with zoning will be developed for each marine park to provide for a range of activities and uses, including coastal development, shipping and infrastructure activities in certain zones and areas, as well as to provide areas of greater protection.
Where can people find out more information about marine parks?
For more information about marine parks, go to www.marineparks.sa.gov.au or phone 1800 006 120.