Land yacht build

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Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
12 Mar 2009 5:16am
Hello to all.
I've enjoyed studying the various builds on this site in preparation for starting my own project which I've been planning for some time now.
First, I'll start by introducing myself:
I live on the Eastern front range of the Rocky Mountains in Northern Colorado USA. Electronic Technician by trade and avid fan of wind power in all it's forms. For the past several years, I've designed and built radio controlled gliders.


Lately, my interest in land yachts was sparked again and I decided now is the time to try the project I've been planning for so long. So here goes...

6 months ago I bought a used Gaastra 6.7sq meter windsurf sail. based on measurements from the sail and design criteria from this forum, I created a scale drawing:




So far, I've been spending time re-learning how to weld. (it's been awhile). I forgot how much fun it is! After a few days of practice, I made an attempt at the frame, but I'm still not satisfied with my weld quality so more practice is in order.

Thanks for sharing all the good info on this forum.
I'll post pics of my progress on frame attempt round-2.

Best Regards,
-Nat

hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
12 Mar 2009 8:54am
Welcome Nat!! I read somewhere once that the sensation of landyachting is quite similar to the sensation of gliding so I think you'll love it!!

Plans look great so far, I look forward to seeing your progress. 6.7sqm is a pretty big sail and it will be good for the light conditions, so you might want to get a smaller one after a while for the stronger winds.

Cheers

Phil
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
12 Mar 2009 10:27am
Hi Nat
Welcome to this site there is a lot of good info here and there is a huge amount of fun building your own land yacht
I would suggest if I may that you have a good think about where you are going to sail your new yacht and design and build to suit the venue
The mini yachts [class 6 size ] are the best for smaller areas if you are thinking carparks or similar class 5 have more pace but need bigger areas
both are heaps of fun building and sailing Go for it! Keep in touch we are all interested
Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
16 Mar 2009 11:31am
Thanks for the warm reception and good suggestions.

I think my next project will be a mini, given the places I have available to sail (carparks etc.) For now, the size of this design was dictated by the size of my sail, which I agree is BIG! In fact, I'm looking for a smaller sail to be more forgiving of a beginning sailor.

Made good progress the last day or so. Frame is coming along nicely with front steering set up, mast tube installed, etc. I plan on posting some pics tomorrow.

-Nat
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
16 Mar 2009 5:32pm
Windsurfer sails can be cut down easier that most other water sails. we do have a thread on the subject( Gizmo , please post link)
If you can put up a photo , and give us an idea of your size,( im guessing 85kg) we can make ome suggestions as to sail size when recut.
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2866 posts
SA, 2866 posts
16 Mar 2009 7:14pm
"How I recut sailboard sails to suit landyachts"
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37622
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
16 Mar 2009 6:30pm
Thanks mate, we must be up to a dozen beers by now, hows lake eyre doing
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2866 posts
SA, 2866 posts
16 Mar 2009 10:14pm
Lake Eyre ... according to ABC news reports will take about a month to fill....
They also mentioned the Yacht club being active again on the lake soon.
Im doing my drive north to Alice Springs in a few weeks (work trip) it will be interesting to see what conditions the lakes are in along the way.
Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
17 Mar 2009 11:58am
Here she is. Still some work to be done but coming along nicely. My kids and I had a great time this afternoon pushing each other along down the street (no wind). All the neighbors came out to watch.




Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
17 Mar 2009 12:01pm
Working on the seat now. Got the deck installed. Next I'll add the side rails and the back.
Note: the blue tie in the front serves no purpose. I just tied it there to keep it out of the way.


Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
17 Mar 2009 12:04pm
Closer pic of the steering. Built using the front of a kids bike.



Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
17 Mar 2009 4:17pm
Looks like its going to be a lot of fun Nat!
Please dont forget the seatbelt and helmet in your plans
That tarmac is very unforgiving
hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
17 Mar 2009 7:01pm
Wow! You don't mess around do you!! Well done!!
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
17 Mar 2009 9:50pm
coolseatbelt, seatbelt,seatbelt
Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
18 Mar 2009 12:14pm
Well... Today I uncovered a serious flaw in my frame construction. I was test fitting my sail when a gust of breeze caught it, then I heard a sickening "Poink" sound followed by the sound of a beer can getting ripped in half. The spine tube I selected was just too weak for the job and failed catastrophically at the mast tube tearing it nearly in half! My sail folded over and laid on the ground in defeat.

Lesson learned. I'll salvage the steering and wheels for frame attempt number 3 and go to pick up (thicker) metal tomorrow a wiser and more humble land yacht builder.

BTW: I picked up a seat belt today from a junkyard, courtesy of a '88 Honda Civic. Mounting a seat belt to frame-2 was the last official act before it gave up the ghost. I'll save it for frame-3 as well.

Live and learn... I'm not out of the game yet. Besides, welding thicker metal will be much easier with my stick welder than this thin stuff has been.

cisco
cisco
QLD
12367 posts
QLD, 12367 posts
18 Mar 2009 1:36pm
They say that Edison successfully found 600 ways a light bulb wouldn't work before he found a way that it would work.

You have successfully found a way that your land yacht will not work. Thankfully not when you were in it and hooting along at a great rate of knots.

Or in the words of "Winston", "Never, never, never, never give up."

I know what you mean about stick welders and light material. Most of my yacht is 1.6 mm thick material. I tried 1.5mm rods but the arc was too hot or I couldn't get a bond. I went to 2mm rods with the amps on the low side and got a better result. The 2.5mm rods needed higher amps to run and caused a lot of burn holes.

Looking forward to seeing your further progress. Cheers Cisco.

If all else fails, you know where to get the plans for a Lake Lefroy Mini Explorer and how much they cost (nix).
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
18 Mar 2009 8:40pm
Keep in mind the variations youve ade to the original plans.
Sail area 50%!!!!!!!!!! bigger
steel wall thickness, probably30% thinner.
length 25% longer? ( harder to lift a wheel , more leverage to hold back)
Im guessing a stiff carbon mast?
Ive learnt something
Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
19 Mar 2009 6:48am
I tell my kids all the time: You can be successful doing something for the first time, but you not a master until you learn every possible way of doing it wrong.
You're right Cisco; I'm glad I learned this lesson at 0 velocity!

Picked up some steel today and frame-3 is under construction. It's just as well frame-2 was destroyed, because I'm much happier with my welding on this new one.

Guys, Thanks for the encouragement. For now, It's back to the shop for some chopping and welding. I've really been enjoying the welding part.
Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
19 Mar 2009 6:49am
Yes. I'm using a stiff carbon mast.
Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
19 Mar 2009 1:02pm
Frame-3 hot off the blocks: Forgive the picture. It was starting to get dark outside.
After this picture, I managed to get the steering link, seat deck and seat belt installed.



Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
24 Mar 2009 12:54am
Much has happened in the past few days:
I rigged this frame temporarily and took it out for a test run on a calm morning. Mostly gentle thermal breezes, which was perfect for learning how to sail this thing... until; a gust of wind blew through and I instantly accelerated to about 4 times comfortable speed! No accident or injury thank goodness, but a good learning experience. I was surprised and somewhat disturbed by the insane acceleration this machine is capable of. In fact, when it was all over, I walked around for a few minutes with my knees shaking.

Which brings me to the latest; I've been working on a new Mini:

99% of the steel came from my friend's metal salvage business. Also in his scrap yard, I found a nice 15 foot aluminum mast that I bought for $8 (US). He gave me the bicycle front for free.




Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
24 Mar 2009 1:01am
Question:

What size sail would you guys recommend using on my Mini for learning how to sail?
Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
24 Mar 2009 3:30am
Guys, What about something like this?

I don't think I have the skills yet for re-sewing my big sail.

BTW: I weigh about 150lbs. (68Kg)



cisco
cisco
QLD
12367 posts
QLD, 12367 posts
24 Mar 2009 9:32am
Kemosabi said...

Question:

What size sail would you guys recommend using on my Mini for learning how to sail?



Hi Nat, The sail size question depends on what your usual prevailing winds are among other things. If you normally have no more than 20 knots (37kmh), your relatively light weight and a reasonably large open area without obstacles to sail on, a 4m sail should be fairly OK. If you find you are getting out of control, depower the sail (ease the sheet) and steer into the wind.

Remember that an efficient sail will power you to 3 to 5 times the wind speed when sailing across the wind. Also remember to make sure you are securely belted into the craft and never put your arm or leg out if it tips over. The mast will hit the ground first and if it doesn't break (not likely to), you will be safe.

You can practise this by belting yourself into the yacht and have someone pull the yacht over by the mast and letting it drop to the ground. Overcome the instinct to save yourself by putting your arm out.

If you put your arm out when the yacht gets slapped down at speed, you are highly likely to cause a severe, permanent and very painful injury to your shoulder.

Does this sound like the voice of experience?? Well it is. I did it early in the piece and had my arm in a sling for a week. I was lucky. Cheers Cisco.

Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2866 posts
SA, 2866 posts
24 Mar 2009 10:23am
I would like to repost something I posted a long while ago that would be of interest to the new commers to the sport...... on the subject of seat belts,

While the thoughts are there on the subject of safety ...."Seatbelts".
Many years ago I saw a very nasty situation with a 2 seater yacht at Goolwa beach.
The yacht was a "Freeflight Manta" sailing along the beach with 2 people with a basic knowledge of landyachting .. and doing the right thing of wearing helmets and seatbelts.
The yacht flipped over just below the point the the water was coming up to,
Now the buckles of the seatbelts were between the 2 people so when the yacht was on the side the top person was suspended by the belt forcing their body weight down blocking the release of either of the buckles.
It was all a bit of a laugh for a while with others helping...it got VERY serious when a wave rolled in over the yacht trapping the bottom person under water for what must have seemed an eternity for them.
The lesson learnt VERY rapidly was make sure you can release the buckle by yourself while being suspended by that belt......
If they hadn't been sailing with many other people around im sure it would have been fatal.
I have seen some idiots that use sailing snap hooks or a climbing carabina as the buckle.
If a yacht is on its side you will need 3 people to lift a 80-90kg person to release a jambed buckle...


PLEASE REMEMBER THIS..... IT COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
24 Mar 2009 1:10pm
Looks great Nat
Some very good advice from the guys above
You are sailing on a fast unforgiving surface there
Keeping every part of your anatomy within the triangle of the three wheels is important to your health
Some sort of upstand around the edge of the seat would make this easier
A 4sqMetre sail on the Mini should be a good size for you as has been said
You should have a lot of fun with that machine
Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
31 Mar 2009 4:56am
Thank you.
Good advice and well taken. In fact, I put it into practice this weekend flipping my Mini twice in strong wind. I'm relieved to find out that I didn't have any problem overcoming the urge to stick anything out and getting it smashed or chopped off. I just pulled my arms and legs in and rode it into the ground. Not counting the two mentioned above, I even managed to flip it up on end. While at rest and facing directly into the wind, the front wheel lifted off and the entire frame rotated from front to back around the stationary axle and came to rest on the back with it's front wheel standing in the air. I lay there still seat belted with my legs sticking up in the air thinking.... "This is a new experience. Now what do I do?"

hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
31 Mar 2009 8:50am
Hahaha!! That's a very funny image! Good to hear your having fun with it!!

Might be time for that slightly smaller sail!
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
31 Mar 2009 6:37am
Great to see it all working out Nat you have done really well
We some times sit like that in our class5s when we are waiting around They dont lay back as far as a mini though!
Interested to see your sailing area especially the road to footpath [sidewalk I guess you would call it] margin
In New Zealand we could never have that the houses would be flooded! Doesnt it rain there?
Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
4 Apr 2009 4:59am
We don't get much rain here. I think we averaged 7 inches last year, so it's pretty dry.
Spring is the wet season. Last week we had blizzard that shut down all the schools and sent us all home from work early and tomorrow we're under another blizzard warning.

Next chance I get, I'll snap some pictures of my test track. Not many beaches or salt flats here in Colorado, so I take what I can get. Eventually, I want to try sailing a place that's about 20 miles from my house. Good wind, lots of open space, miles and miles of dirt roads. It's an open range so I have to watch out not to hit a cow as I'm flying along! Here's a pic:


Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
4 Apr 2009 8:37am
I just ordered two used sails. One of the sails was only $18! Hopefully, it hasn’t been ran over by a truck or something, but they said it was condition “B” which is supposed to be nearly new condition.

With these two new sails, I’ll be up to 5 total.

Experiment 3.5 sq meter (made this myself out canvas)
x2 sails 4.2 sq meter
5.4 sq meter (old obrien RAF windsurf sail)
6.7 sq meter (Cam Gaastra)

3 masts; aluminum 450cm / carbon 480cm / fiberglass 450cm. (guessing on lengths)

I’ll be starting on another mini frame soon, which means I’ll have two complete set-ups. This way some of my friends can learn how to sail too.
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