Mini design/ rig balance

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
US772
US772
332 posts
332 posts
31 Dec 2012 10:39am
I was wondering what peoples opinion was concerning the for and aft balance of the rig on the mini. I realize there are many variables like mast rake and sail size can change the whole thing. I know if the rigs ce is to far forward it can get a weather helm. Too far back and it crabs excessively. On my solid wingboats I try to get about 35% to 40% of the wings area behind the center line of the center of the axle. Here are a few boats I measured or guesstimated using a scale. The measurement/ratio is center of axle to center of mast step at the bottom of the mast step divided by the wheelbase length.
LLF - 58%
Plumekart 51%
Racekart 63%
Blokart 60 %
Potty 68%
Seagul 68 %
Beachrunner 57%
Average between the above 61%
Any advice?\
Thanks
John
Windcrazy
Windcrazy
89 posts
89 posts
31 Dec 2012 11:27am
Crude drawing of how you laid out your measurements!!
Thanks
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
31 Dec 2012 2:31pm
One of the factors often ignored is body weight and how its placed on the yacht.
A rig well forward may suit some weights where a rig further back may suit others.
Bigger yachts don't seem to have the same problem due to the increased weight of the yacht, so body weight is a smaller proportion in the overall mass.
Test pilot 1
Test pilot 1
WA
1430 posts
WA, 1430 posts
31 Dec 2012 6:38pm
You definitely dont want too much weight on the front wheel
US772
US772
332 posts
332 posts
1 Jan 2013 12:28am
I should of said too far forward = leeward helm. Does different body weight effect the LLF much?
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
1 Jan 2013 1:28pm
Just be mindful that the International Mini5.6 is still a class in its infancy and there is some basic design principles but they would not enough to be locked in as exact measurements, and many of those have just evolved.
I believe the original LLMini was built to the same wheel base as a blokart as a one on one comparison.
With the Mini5.6 class there is no sail size restriction, just by changing a sail will alter the for / aft balance...... This is one of the greatest things of the class, there are VERY few design and building restrictions.

And remember the 5.6m rope rule is a MAXIMUM measurement, yachts can be built smaller than that.
Test pilot 1
Test pilot 1
WA
1430 posts
WA, 1430 posts
1 Jan 2013 12:33pm
US772 said...
I should of said too far forward = leeward helm. Does different body weight effect the LLF much?


The ratio of body to yacht weight increases with a heavier pilot. Therefore the total mass will increase which affects inertia. A heavier combined mass will take more energy/time to achieve a set speed than a lighter.
The advantage of greater mass comes to the fore in higher winds giving more moveable mass for control. e.g. When turning slide your mass forward to get maximum traction on front wheel, slide/lean your mass over the windward wheel/axle.
Also as you haul on the sheet rope your CoE moves back as your mast bends back
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
1 Jan 2013 2:17pm
Im not sure what the measurement is without some sort of diagram, butsince you are sailing on clay,you will be able to move the weight and the mast back further than on sand,due to the better grip on clay,OR run a bigger rig.
OR you can run a more manta like rig with greater rake and mast moved forward. again because of the great traction that clay provides. on clay I move my weight back till the front wheel just grips,and bend my knees to turn.
BUT the same set up on sand or gravelwill make for very squirrely sailing. the best gravel/sand yacht ive had was "nappy rush(photo please cisco) But in racing I frequently lost control. by moving the mast baseforward only50mm I brought the beast undercontrol,but lost alot of the racing edgyness that it needed to be a great racing yacht
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply