New build ..my plans..any comments

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chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
23 May 2012 11:52am
My first concern was the steering set up. I purchased a 550lb castor wheel ,fork and a bearing set up all in one..I have a boat traler axle a 2x2 T frame with 2x2
supports from 8" from the wheels going forward to the mast step..I am still in the assembly process..My plans are to use a boat push pull steering cable attached to
an extension of the axle and a boat steering adapter mounted to the frame...This will all come back to a bench seat with a steering wheel... a jam cleat to the sail board sail...I really am in the experimental stage...This site seems to be on top of all the particulars.....Looking for any help..
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2866 posts
SA, 2866 posts
23 May 2012 1:42pm
Caster wheel? and do you intend to use it in trailing mode? if you are.... think out of control shopping trolley.
Are you intending to use the boat trailer wheels with roller bearings filled with grease?

Have a good look at the plans for the Lake Lefroy Mini yacht...

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/Build-a-Landyacht-Lake-Lefroy-Mini-Yacht/

This yacht in the plans has been developed over many years and many hundreds yachts of trial and error, many people go their own way in design / build but will eventually go down the path of following a tried and proven design.

It costs the same and uses the same level of effort to build a yacht that works well rather than a yacht that has disappointing results that will cause you to lose interest in the sport.

gibberjoe
gibberjoe
SA
956 posts
SA, 956 posts
23 May 2012 1:43pm

in this forum nothing is impossible, some of the people will correct you if needed.

shetches or photos help a lot......best of luck
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
23 May 2012 5:30pm
Why do you Newbies do it to yourselves??? I don't understand!! First time out should be using known technology, and efficiencies.. Reinventing the wheel can lead to terrible disappointment and dropping of the sport especially for those of limited income. None the less it is your call as all the discussions for and against rear wheel tiller steering etc have already been had and still the LLM wins out..
Ron
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
VIC
1066 posts
VIC, 1066 posts
23 May 2012 6:05pm
Nikrum! Surely a bloke such as yourself see's its vital to do such things



That said, I would also recommend having a go at building from the Lefroy mini plans
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
23 May 2012 8:26pm
Hey! Lachy There is a big difference between Scratching yer Butt and Tearin' Chunks out of it..

You know in all the discussions on the Rear Tiller type steering I have never heard mention of the Inertia of Centrifugal Force. It is a strange feeling when your weight is swung around and it helps the continuance of the body in that direction to oppose any changing direction. There a couple of other dynamics that could get involved in that area as well.
Ron
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
23 May 2012 8:18pm
landyacht trailer landyachts , and boat trailer landyachts have been built before and do work , but it is important to keep your weight down. as from what youve told us it will need a hard surface such as bitumen, sand will probably be too soft.
have fun with the build and the sailing and we love photos
chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
24 May 2012 12:02pm
The castor wheel has been used , no sail , being towed with the frame seat and
the boat steering cable attatched to the front wheel axle back to a steering wheel ...no down force on the frame ..no sail on this test ...and the wheel stayed true to the frame and steered left and right with no chatter or sail down force...I have no pics , and I know we are very heavy with the trailer axle . and 12" wheels
2"x2" frame construction ..a 4' bench seat....My intention is not to go fast ...maybe10-15mph....not looking to ride on two wheels but go up and down the beach at an easy ..safe pace..I am 59 yrs old and this is a bucket list project

chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
24 May 2012 12:24pm
The sail for this project is a high performance sail board sail 15' X 6'...stiff battens every 2.5' a heavy duty mast , fiberglass with a 1.5" aluminium insert
till it stops on the masts taper to avoid breakage at the mast step...All of this may never work....however if it does i will let you know
chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
24 May 2012 12:36pm
Gizmo....What faults do tapered roller bearings on a trailer axle designed to carry a straight flat load of 1500 lbs ..that may never come off the ground....and if this design does lift a wheel....I'd rather be on this axle and bearing set up than wheel barrow tire and a 5/8ths bolt....I'm certainly not talking from experience...just expecting what I'm building will work
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2866 posts
SA, 2866 posts
24 May 2012 2:24pm
chocsea said...

Gizmo....What faults do tapered roller bearings on a trailer axle designed to carry a straight flat load of 1500 lbs ..that may never come off the ground....and if this design does lift a wheel....I'd rather be on this axle and bearing set up than wheel barrow tire and a 5/8ths bolt....I'm certainly not talking from experience...just expecting what I'm building will work


Roller bearings by design are great for carrying heavy loads but not brilliant for side loading (not that a land yacht will load them up to the limits) The rollers have a higher drag compared to ball bearings, and if you run grease this will bind things up even further.
A lot of people will remove one or both the seals of the bearings wash the grease out and then run oil for lubrication.
Land yachts actually don't generate huge amounts of forward force and wasting that force just overcoming friction can be a problem in light to medium winds.
chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
24 May 2012 1:01pm
This is going to be a beach craft...As there is no other area to test or enjoy..
So there may be modifications needed to my first atempt...at building a land
cruiser ,my steering set up is certainly not traditional ...however it appears that it will work....and will follow up with pics
colk2004
colk2004
317 posts
317 posts
24 May 2012 9:16pm
Taper rollers should be fine, being a type of angular contact bearing, same as used in motorbike headstocks which mostly aren't vertical + plus if too tight can be backed off www.ebay.co.uk/itm/land-sailing-yacht-buggy-trailer-project-great-fun-no-reserve-/320911674963?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4ab7d38e53 if it hasn't finished is one similar to what you're proposing on EBay/UK currently...I'd get on there and copy some images for inspiration

Cheers Col
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
25 May 2012 1:02pm
chocsea said...

The sail for this project is a high performance sail board sail 15' X 6'...stiff battens every 2.5' a heavy duty mast , fiberglass with a 1.5" aluminium insert
till it stops on the masts taper to avoid breakage at the mast step...All of this may never work....however if it does i will let you know

that sounds fine , re the bearings, you could try adding some oil or tacolene, or chainsaw bar old to the grease, to get them rolling better.
Jibberjoe built a machine a while back that for some reason had tapercones on the inside and unsealed balls on the outside, all in a grease well. the wheels basically stopped the machine from rolling.
see if you can get some sealed ball bearings to fit the hub/axle set up .
have athink about the diameter of the front wheel as well, abd check to see just what kind of bearing it has , Im guessing a full width roller bearing .
basically if your on a beach , the biggy for you is to make something that will roll easy

chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
26 May 2012 6:36am
I picked up an old style 3 wheel ATV front end ...It has a huge wide tire and a drum brake set up...I may keep the brake as a parking brake...???? However ths fork is big and wide with all sorts of room for modifications and a more lay down
aspect...The plan with the trailer axle and wheels is to be able to add a trailer tongue that can be plugged in and make the whole rig a towable unit..no extra trailer to go to and from the beach....Again this going to come in on the heavy side...However there is normally a 15-30mph wind either on or off shore. I have
been experimenting with a modified trailer hub,,no grease but sealed with Buddy bearing caps and loading the grease gun with gear oil to lube the bearings...I'm sure the seals won't hold up but they will keep sand and salt water out....
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
VIC
1066 posts
VIC, 1066 posts
26 May 2012 11:24am
Sounds like whats for sale in colk's post (see above). I thought it was a great design considering the restrictive requirements. Just watch the weight of the machine

Good luck with it!
chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
19 Jun 2012 1:44am




chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
19 Jun 2012 1:59am
First attempt , as mentioned before...the aluminum box standing upright houses a boat steering helm that runs to the front wheel providing the push-pull nesc to turn there is a 4' foam bench seat and back that sits over the axle I have no doubt that this rig is heavy and given this ...I dont suspect that we will get a wheel off the ground...However the hard pack beach has a pretty constant 20-30mph onshore breeze that with the size and type of sail we are using we may see 20-25mph speed from this overbuilt land yacht....We are already gathering up the nesc parts to go all aluminum single style kart with a more conventional (proven ) steering set up.....will keep updating as it gets ready for a trial run...Also note the extended front end that will be modified to accept a removable trailer tongue to it ..lights are all thats required to tow it and we have a set of magnentic stick on and removable lights.....Any way thats where our first attempt is .....
desertyank
desertyank
1264 posts
1264 posts
19 Jun 2012 6:15am
looks a lot lighter than I thought it was going to... Nice work!
colk2004
colk2004
317 posts
317 posts
19 Jun 2012 3:49pm
As long as those wheels are turning nice and freely, you're not going to be winning any races but it should be fun with those wind speeds. Keep the photos coming. Addictive this business - just started my second yacht myself!

Cheers Col
Test pilot 1
Test pilot 1
WA
1430 posts
WA, 1430 posts
19 Jun 2012 8:46pm
If you are going to make a removeable towing tongue why not a removeable steering front wheel tongue?
chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
20 Jun 2012 3:10am
Had that thought , however the boat (push pull )steering is cable attatched to a swivel bracket right behind the front wheel. The plan is to have a receiver in front of the wheel that pins ,like a hitch easy on an easy off one pin. removing the front wheel and steering cable will require much more time , on and off...The angle of the frame to the ball on the tow vehicle allows the front wheel 10" clearance..Will follow up with pics...I am rigging the sail up today.....
chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
20 Jun 2012 7:39am
Question...there has been some controversy on the posistion of the front fork being almost 90* in either direction ...when the frame is being pushed from the rear
the front wheel wants to trail like a shopping buggy..however I've pushed a shopping buggy and the castor style wheel wants to shimmy ...Keep in mind there is an extension of the axle that connects to an outboard boat mtr steering cable..I anticipate having to hold the wheel regardless of fork angle forward or trailing to the rear any IDEAS on this ...also the fork has been beefed up with a pair of 3/8 rods 2 on each side welded on for lateral support......???? See the pic posted a couple threads back it is in the forward posistion
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2866 posts
SA, 2866 posts
20 Jun 2012 9:31am
Have a look at this basic caster info.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle.
Have a look at bicycles and motor cycles and have a look at their steering... More importantly have a close look at the wheel and caster angles of a bicycle or motor cycle when they are in motion and turning.
Just imagine shopping trolley shimmer at 60km/h
chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
20 Jun 2012 11:23am
I will never get that fast ...maybe 25-35kmph...The frame follows the wheel trailing
It's a real easy change one way or the other ...I would like not to have to have a grip on the wheel and the trailing aspect appears that the frame follows the trailing wheel as opposed to what you would think...I will certainly let everyone know...
chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
20 Jun 2012 11:28am
I understand the weight difference on the axle ...trailing or following..only trial and error will decide....
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
20 Jun 2012 11:37am
I suspect on this occasion all will be well
nice effort chocsea
chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
20 Jun 2012 11:51am
The strange thing with this set up is ...If you push the frame forward effortlesly
the front wheel wants to trail , however when lateral and sail force comes into play
I'm not sure of the end result....again it's an easy fix or undo to change it up... Maybe this weekend will result in an answer...that will satisfy all three of us involved....
chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
20 Jun 2012 11:58am
I've got less than $500. into this and will invest more to make it do what we want....Then there will be an Aussie version done with all the reading and 5k pics I've looked at....It seems and this is meant with all respect ...you guys have it down to a science.... Thanks All....
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
20 Jun 2012 3:13pm
at 500 it is well in the value for money category.
dont stress over the fork angle , some of the fastest landyachts on the planet are straight up and down
chocsea
chocsea
16 posts
16 posts
21 Jun 2012 12:13pm
Most of the money spent was in tires , the front wheel castor and the steering helm , cable and the steering wheel and adapter...I bought a 2x2 stick of 11gauge
the mast step is a modified boat seat pedestal...I bought the sail and mast for $90.
the rest of the ingrediants are stuff laying around the shop...we upholsterd the seat...with some leftover sunbrella material...I have an outboard repair shop and the steering stuff aside from the steering wheel and adapter was parts in stock....
I put the sail on the mast with a heavy inner tube of schedule 40 galv pipe which is way to heavy,,tied a line to the outhaul grommet ....pulled the line into the wind and the rig shot forward 5' and hit the mast on the shop roof....she will roll down the beach no problem...no speed demon....That's for the next single rig already in the design mode for speed..I have not even got this one tuned in and am talking about building another....certainly an addictive sport..loving every minute of it....
Thanks all for your input and support so far...........
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