Hi there Seabreeze members and future fellow landsailers. Im from Adelaide and together with a sailing buddy of mine, constructing a pair of Lake Lefroy's.

Construction has yet to commence, hopefully we will get both chassis built over this coming long weekend. I have to praise the simple design of the Lefroy Mini, and I must admit I am a little daunted by the layover steering but It should be too complex (using standard bicycle necktube/headset/bearings instead of the washer/bushing arrangement).

Anyway, to the point of my subject. Its clear that Fallshaw are the wheels of choice, however I'm quite confused in the depth of the topic. More specifically, confusion about the use of commonly avaliable bearings.

So is anybody able to provide me with a specific Fallshaw part number for the complete correct wheel with appropriate bearings (x3)that I need to build our yachts.

Also, where are South Aussies buying these wheels from? Is there a shop in Adelaide that carries these in stock?

A price would be helpfull too to know if im getting ripped off!

Bear in mind we dont have intentions of racing (except each other) so top performance isnt really an issue.

Man am I going on and on here, but Ive looked at the wheels avaliable in Hong Kong Hardware (pooraka) and found plastic 4x8 units that seem to accept 2" bearings, however the bearing housing is the same dimension through the wheel, the whole wheel would slide off the bearings under side load if im thinking correctly...


Thanks in advance for my stack of stupid questions!

Look forward to getting these things out and under sail.

Regards, Glenn.

Hi Glenn
Just bought some Fallshaw wheels for my mini this week here in Nz
The part number for the wheels is 8x250 PWB10
these come with ! inch deep groove bearings which you are best to throw away and get the housings which accept 20mm high speed bearings part no n6204
Two of these per wheel and 2 of 6204 bearings
You can get these with rubber seals part no 6204 2rs which are contact seal type
which have more friction but seal better or non contact type seals 6204 zz
less friction but probably wont last as long
The housings and bearings just push in very easy no problem
Prices here in NZ dollars
wheel $20.44 n6204 housing $1.29 62042rs bearings $2.85
Hope this helps and welcome to the forum

G'day Glenn, good to see more South Aussies on here, you'll have to come out sailing with Gizmo and me (once Gizmo pulls his finger out ) plus the other South Aussies on here!

I'm pretty sure they need a 1" axle, but let Giz or Hiko confirm that before you buy.

If you do want to upgrade the bearings I got them from Gardner Bearings. part number EE9-2RS-JAP. 2"Outside Diam. x 1"Inside Diam. I think they were about $13 each from memory.

Yes I think I will go with 1" Rod axles with pins.

Keep it simple for the first builds i think :)

Not sure if building 2 at the same time is a good idea or not but we'll soon see :)

Just measured the wheel it is definitally 400mm dia. of the outside to outside of the tyre.



The only tyre I could find that size is the (knobly one which comes with it) when i wear that one out i will be going for the ribbed ones.
Hiko i think you might have been charged for the smaller wheel which is cheaper (lucky you)

Hiko, I think that might be the better option, and then either fit some ribbed tyres or some knobs planed down to slicks.


I have a 5m carbon mast + sailboard sail/boom that was given to me from a family friend, my mate is trying to source a similar setup from his connections.

I will also be exploring other sources for frame materials. I know somebody on here used a 'recycled' street sign. Other options are of course Fence post as listed in the plans, and Im inclined to think exhaust shops.

A while back I went to my nearest exhaust shop (exhaust technology on goodwood road) and purchased all the materials to fab the exhaust myself.

From what I recall, 2.5" mild steel had a about a 1.8-2mm wall and was very cheap (less than $10 a meter)

Hiko said...

The 400x8 kno is the knobbly tyre there is also a diamond pattern tyre
400x8 dmd and a ribbed one 400x 8 rib
The wheel is 8x250 PWB 10 on my invoice I bought the tyres and tubes seperately
elsewhere
The standard wheel has the 1 inch deep groove bearings if you want to fit 1 inch
precision bearings they are quite expensive the metric 20mm 6204 bearings are much cheaper like about six times cheaper! [Much more common]
Building two yachts at a time will be much less than twice as much work I think

Ok so It would be better to build the rear end with 20mm axles and swap out the bearings then. Is there any advantage over using threaded axles/locknuts to drilled stock with a pin?

okay sorry one more question hopefully before i dissapear into the shed for a week

do you see anything wrong with using a typical bicycle headset/races and necktube on the front of the main beam? Just about everyone seems to just use a combination of steel and plastic washers, seems primitive.

welding on a sacrificed headtube, and building the fork onto a threaded steerer is much simpler, probably more efficient and easier to obtain bits for ( a complete new headset with races, bearings, headset is about $10)

Ribbed tyres from Mullins wheels,25-47 cheviot rd salisbury5108
If you have an alternative wheel that takes a 2" OD deep groove bearing, the fallshaw housing to convert to a 6204( 20mmID) bearing will fit, the part no is 6204HOUSING
isnt it typical , the kiwis can just buy the rim only , we have to have that stupid knobbly tyre
the reason I chose a 20mm axle is that I have broken the smaller sizes-15,16,5/8,17mm. the next size up is 25mm which gets too heavy . a 20mm mild steel bolt or just rod is strong enough even for a CL 5, no machining required.
If you are building a 30 degree layover steering head from a bicycle fork and sailing on rougher ground/sand, it will regularly chew out the bearings , and can seize during use
The reason that I use a solid 20mm shaft in the steering is that I have broken /bent every tube set up I tried. the mild steel 20mm shaft has outlasted everything else. it is also nice thick steel and easy to get a big heavy deep weld into
I am still waiting for a test of the exhaust tubing, I"m not holding my breath, as the tubing is designed for easy bending. if your building a full length chassis, ie mini "explorer" I would not recommend it, and would hunt harder for the galtube "fencepost" steel.
Enjoy your building , please take photos and put the finished yachts in the landyacht register, welcome aboard.

gsand said...

Where do you purchase said plastic washers?

You don't buy them. You cut them out of an ice crean container lid with a pair of scissors.

And I assume these do wear rather rapidly...

Wrong assuption, They last a long time.


And sorry to keep clogging your forum up with garbage,

No apology needed or wanted. No garbage coming from you.

but is there anything wrong with running a traditional bicycle front end as mentioned for the sandpiper?

Give it a burl Curl. Off the shelf or out of the dump is great. Tell us what happens.

keep things as simple as possible.

Way to go.

I have several bikes lying around to donor...

That is handy and cheap.


but what do I know

Maybe more than us.

Welcome to the forum mate. Join in the fun. Cheers Cisco

Gsand, take a look at Pirrad's landyacht at the end of the landyacht register, he's used a bike front end and it looks great and from his video it sails great too. Go for it!!

Hi guys, it seems there is an "issue" with these rollovers somewhere.
I have only ever used 12mm or 15mm solid and never had one bend on a Class 5.
I don't quite understand why a 20 by 2.5mm tube would bend, this is stronger than the rear axle tubes!!

gsand said...

Layover steering looks real neat and makes the yacht look real sleek, However what are the advantages over traditional type steering with about 70 degrees?

The major advantage is that it steers better, ie more likely to be true to where you point it.
Also allows the chassis to be lower at the front (less windage), less load on the wheel. you don't "turn" a wheelbarrow, you lean it over, this is sort of where it came from. Likewise you don't turn a bike so much as a lean.
Disadvantages; More complex to make well, easy to stuff up! the axis of the pivot MUST meet the tyre contact patch, ie no lead, no trail. If it does not you get some "interesting" behaviour. in the early experimentation it seemed the yachts were out of balance (CofE in relation Cof R) but a bit of experimenting showed it was steering geometry as mentioned above. A clue when you have it correct is if the yacht tracks perfectly straight when you push it.

Bending of tubes?
The stub axles on the rear, if Pauls plans are followed are 20mm (or 25 for the low speed bearings) and at right angles to the direction of travel.
The front shaft should not be carrying very much weight at all static, Paul gives a suggestion for this front weight too, and this load path is basically in the perpendicular to the wheel, ie along the shaft. I would have thought that even hitting rocks would have damaged the wheel before bending the pivot shaft?
The load to bend a bit of tube like this over such a localised area is huge!

Basically its a weight over the front end thing. you need that bit extra weight over the front wheel. If you go from downwind to upwind with a lot of speed and little weight on the front wheel you can simply flip over backwards, Nappy rush is JUST on the edge of not doing that. all the front ends Ive bent have been on rough Euro style beaches , or walyungup gravel soI designed the front so it wont break. that then becomes one less thing to worry about. with 20mm solid , concrete kerbs in little carparks are no longer of concern
its great to see some of the failures getting reported, as we can all learn from each little experiment