Class 5 specs

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aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
3 Sep 2008 9:03pm
I am a little confused about which specs we can build a class 5 to, I should imagine that we would fit into the FISLY Class 5 Specs as they also set out the rules for the promo. The New Zealand yachts have now gone down this path and I believe ALSA also abides by these rules(I could be mistaken) Seems crazey to have 3 sets of rules.
Cheers
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
4 Sep 2008 9:33pm
Vic, I would suggest that you address this little question directly to ALSA ie DR as he has stated to us that he won't do it on the web. My understanding is that the construction rules painstakingly written up by PROMOGIRL are true and correct. for any changes to occur there would have to be discussion by club reps ,etc,etc.......
I suspect that the next discussion opportunity would be the Nationals in 2010 at Lake Walyungup.
If you were considering taking the new yacht to the US next year then go with the Pacrim or FISLY specs OR perhaps build something to the PROMO specs? I suspect that there will be a fleet of PROMOS sailing as they are being promoted by FISLY as their amazing new idea.
the most important aspect as far as you are concerned is that the Australian sail size is still 5m and the sail measuring system is NOT the FISLY one . Ie . our 5.5m sails are not allowed at a ALSA Nationals.
I have been repeatedly told that the 2 measuring techniques will give the same result. I have done the experiment and can assure you it is NOT true. both systems are accurate but have little shortcuts in different parts of the measuring which allow extra unmeasured sail area in different places. But your 5.5m sail (FISLY system)will NOT measure in at 5.0m by the ALSA system. let us all know what you decide to do as others will want to biuld as we get ready for the State champs in Jan and the Nationals.
cheers Paul






G'day splitpin
aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
5 Sep 2008 1:49am
Thanks Paul.
The problem as I see it is that ALSA rules have not been updated to F.I.S.L.Y rules since 1986, If the rules were updated at that time it would follow that we were abiding by F.I.S.L.Y and the new rules should be incorpored into Class 5 specs. If that is not the case we would not be part is the international federation.

AUSTRALIAN LAND SAILING ASSOCIATION

'CLASS V' SPECIFICATIONS

5th DRAFT, MARCH 1989

INCORPORATING F.I.S.L.Y. 1986 AMENDMENTS


Cheers Vic.

P.S How do I contact DR
hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
5 Sep 2008 8:54am
His email address is on the ALYC website, its: [email protected]
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
5 Sep 2008 6:25pm
aus230 said...

Thanks Paul.
The problem as I see it is that ALSA rules have not been updated to F.I.S.L.Y rules since 1986, If the rules were updated at that time it would follow that we were abiding by F.I.S.L.Y and the new rules should be incorpored into Class 5 specs. If that is not the case we would not be part is the international federation.

AUSTRALIAN LAND SAILING ASSOCIATION

'CLASS V' SPECIFICATIONS

5th DRAFT, MARCH 1989

INCORPORATING F.I.S.L.Y. 1986 AMENDMENTS


Cheers Vic.

P.S How do I contact DR


We are not a FISLY member. We dont pay money to FISLY. they know we exist and we are welcomed at thier events,and visa,versa . As of this year they still recognize Martin Bell (1993) as the ALSA contact. They did a worldwide survey in late 2007 and can tell you that there are 10 landsailors in Australia.
Basically the CL5 rules for ALSA are as they are on that list.
For a change there needs to be a big sit down discussion on all points of the rules, This is assuming that the other clubs have any interest in changing anything . You and I might be the only ones.
The starting point would be for ALSA to ask all its associated clubs if there are any rules they would like to change. you have a choice of class rules (5 and 6),racing rules,and constitutional rules.
Once all the clubs have submitted any changes they might like ,then it would need to be discussed at club level,then decided by an ALSA level vote. Keep in mind that this is not something for an AGM. that is to decide on who does what within the organization.

aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
5 Sep 2008 6:47pm
I think I am starting to get the picture, I had no idea that we were so far behind the 8 ball. Some how we need to catch up. Otherwise what is the point of building new yachts if there is no progress.
Cheers
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
5 Sep 2008 10:49pm
Hear, Hear. Whether it be by seduction or by being dragged kicking and screaming, ALSA needs to be brought into the 21st century. This discussion has been before and as yet not resolved.

The gnashing of teeth and tearing out of hair that happened last time when legitimate questions were asked, threatened to spoil the cameradie of the forum to such a degree that the subject was dropped. It blew most of the blokarters out of the forum.

My opinion is that change needs to come from the bottom up, starting at the local club level. I also believe that an online club on this forum for the benefit of remote area land sailors is sorely needed.

By the way, a few of the new blokart clubs have got the insurance companies on board now. Things are looking up. Cheers Cisco
aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
5 Sep 2008 9:43pm
I dont want to get into a debate about ALSA, I just feel that I should be able to build and sail a class 5 to the most current specs. To give an example of what I mean, In

the seventies and early eighties I built a speed way formula 500, I won a lot of events and it was about the fastest thing around HOWEVERif I raced that car against a current formula 500 I would probly not finish in the same lap. Why progress
Cheers
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
5 Sep 2008 9:52pm
My personal approach would be to get on and buid to FISLY specs, and keep it strictly in the specs, keeping in mind that the CL 5 is at the end of its day and has been replaced with the CL 5 PROMO. If your Building a fisly spec 5 ,you may be 10 years to late
Over a year ago , I suggested that fisly were starting to see the light and their newest class was close to the CL 5's we were sailing in Aust. IE competative yachts that you could build yourself, as proven by Roberto Scarvi,the Argentinian who managed to mix it with the French roduction yachts in Rada Tilly.
the PROMO specs would be a good class to build to and be quite competative here in Aus.
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
5 Sep 2008 9:58pm
aus230 said...

I HOWEVERif I raced that car against a current formula 500 I would probly not finish in the same lap. Why progress
Cheers

sadly the cost of progress in cl 5 was that nobody could afford to build a carbon bodied ,super steel , super ally,yacht with rims costing 400-600pounds each. plus a spare,then you had to shape your kevlar tyres yourself.
How did it go in formula 500. could you build one yourself and be competative? what would be the price comparison today.

aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
7 Sep 2008 10:21pm
I think we may be focasing to much on the europian class 5. I certainly are not going down the route of carbon fiber and special aloy. (I am retired on a limited bugit)
I have done most of the costing of building a class 5 to current specs an I will build it for a lot less than purchasing a blocart (nothing wrong with blocarts) I have to scrounge a little and learn new skills to keep the cost down and do all the construction myself but to me that is the fun part and if it works well that is an added bonas.
AUS230 seat was built by recycling an old wall unit.

Cheers
AUS230
aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
8 Sep 2008 11:12pm
ALSA class5 include the current FISLY specs, I can now get on with it. Thanks everyone
Cheers
Vic
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
9 Sep 2008 9:33pm
aus230 said...

I think we may be focasing to much on the europian class 5. I certainly are not going down the route of carbon fiber and special aloy. (I am retired on a limited bugit)


Cheers
AUS230


Just keep in mind that the Carbon and alloy are used because ordinary glass wasnt strong or light enough to do the job. the ally is for the same reasons. On a Euro beach , those rear axles will last only a few hundred meters. been there ,did that one)

aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
9 Sep 2008 10:48pm
Paul.
A few months ago I contacted Grame Roberts In New Zealand, He used a mold from when he was in France last year, The wheels they are using are constructed from fiberglass a couple of layers of 8oz roven woven and a couple of mat they have had no trouble with there wheels
Cheers
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