Ian, I have just emailed you a Promo 5 pdf file and 4 photos of the one Paul Day built for his wife. I think that is what he recommends as a step up from an LLF Mini.

It is also what he raced at Patagonia. The Fed 5 may have been superceeded by the Promo and the "Standart" is made by Seagull yachts in France. I don't know if you can get plans to build one and I believe the yachts cost about $10,000 to buy.

Somebody claims to have the import and/or building rights in Australia for the Standart so there might be copyright issues.

If you want to go to that high a level of performance have a look at the "Beast of Bermingham" (Aus230). There is a spectacular shot of it standing vertical on it's front wheel in the photos section.

The original Paul Day "Pacific Magic" plans are downloadable from this site under News/Articles and hillsy has posted a build thread for his.

The "Club 88" I believe is copyrighted to the Sandgropers. Bazl is probably the man to speak with on that one. Cheers Cisco

fed 5 is a class 5 promo is a different class

I reckon if you did it properly you could have a Fed 5 running in Promo without too many problems. The Fed 5 plans are available from the BFSLYC (British Federation of Sand and LandYacht Clubs)

niaychi said...fed 5 is a class 5 promo is a different class

from??

All of the above are class 5's,none fit into the PROMO class, but the club88 would fit into the "spirit" or intention of a PROMO.
It all gets too confusing, which is why I do all my experiments in minis.
you could simply up your length and width, slight change to steering set up, youve got a good seat mold, so your 90% there.
If I had known about the FED 5 project at the time UK and NZ were doing it I would have embraced it wholeheartedly, but they forgot to tell us at Lake Lefroy.
The Fed 5 , I believe is a better design than my PM, and would be a good project for anybody building a 5.
there was a thread a little while back for Landsailor magazine being back online, I think that would be the place to go looking for FED 5 plans the Seagull dealer for Australia is Pheonix landsailing in QLD, David Webster has a avatar on this site

Bazl , I have a copy of the sandgropers Club 88 plans, Has the clubs paper keeping got sloppy, Do you need me to take a copy, and send to you.
I also have a complete set of FED 5 plans ,and instructions, but not permission to build,, perhaps you could contact the poms and get permission and I could send a copy on .
All the yachts , when sailed on 400x8 rims are about equal, the OTT style yachts when attached to 24 or 26" rims ,are a jump up in performance and speed .

Drop me a PM I will dig out the paper version of the Fed 5 plans which Mike Hampton gave me years back. I think the update is to get them into the computer age.

When I decided to build AUS230, There was some concern raised that yott were to costly to build. Maybe in europe where they use carbon fiber for seat and wheels this would apply (same would probly apply if you built other class5 using the same

materials) but my yacht cost around $1500 to build including sail , sure I had to do all the work myself (I had to learn as I went, I am or was an underground miner) I learnt how to make a mold from the web. I made the wheels myself.
WHat I am trying to say is if I can build what I think is a nice yacht so can anyone who is willing to give it a try.
Cheers
AUS230

"nice yacht" , It's a work of art

aus230 said...

Hi Suzan
You mentioned that the standarts would get damaged at Lake Walyungup, this was the one thing that worried me about sailing there but I was suprised I did not get a single stone chip there for the seasion maybe because of the narrow front wheel.
Cheers
AUS230

Hi Vic, Thats good to hear. Perhaps I was being overly cautious after seeing so many yachts with the paintwork stripped off them after sailing in Safetybay. A standart is such a financial investment that I can not imagine wanting to see it damaged. I wonder if Lake Walyungup really has enough size to see a yacht like the standart really have enought space to wind up? I guess it is all theoretical anyway as no-one has one in Aus. Actually we came very close to buying one but put the money into going to South America instead!

Ian, re Promo class.
If you read the FISLY rules on these you will see they are not a fixed design. More like a "small wheel 5 with other restrictions".
If you really study the rule you will find it very difficult to understand and especially to truly comply with. Check out the material specifications where the use of the word MUST is very confusing. From an english readers' point you MUST use (from memory) 63mm tube. Later you will find that it says that any variation from the tube size.... Now to my simple mind if says MUST, you can't have a variation??
Also says that you MUST use polyester battens. I have checked with ALL of the major commercial producers of sail battens, they have all said they don't use polyester. Therefore you could make some of your own, turn up to an event and protest the whole field! That would be stupid, but it seems to me a great concept, let down by poorly written rules. I suspect they were originally framed to include the Seagull Promo, and written in French, then translated to english, and never really checked by an english speaker.
FWIW if you do a search on Seagull Quebec you should find the full plans for the yacht. Jean phillippe has released these plans for free copying. For a Prom type you could do a lot worse! If I find the link again I will include in this post.Here you are charsavoile.com/ligue/plans/pp-seagull.htm

My Club 88 is overdue for a spruce up. Thought I might take a few before and after pics, probably should post the after pics but just a couple for those who might be interested in the basic design.









The last one is just to illustrate how the stub axle is designed, a shaft through two collars.

What would the main blue chassis frame weight be? approx..
It looks VERY heavy

36 pounds on the NATA calibrated scales Is that a lot?

This sort of discussion is a favourite of mine!
I believe through experience that the tyre construction has a massive effect on landyacht performance. ie not only the size and pressure.
Way back there was a UK class 3 landyachter who was planing his brand new Michelin 115 size tyres when a neighbour by the name of Barry Sheene, the motorcycle rider came by and asked why. Getting the "normal" answer he offered some slicks from hi GP bike which were the same size for $0. Of course they were snatched up. Next regatta our man turned up with these on a set of rims. Race 1 he used the old Michelins, and as usual was dominant. Next race on went the race tyres, and he was lapped by the others, back went the Michelins and he won. This continued for the weekend, but the race bike tyres were never used again.
When I had my Glen in the UK we had a lot of problems with blow outs through over stretching tyres (Michelin 2 1/4 x17, planed), so I used motorcycle rather than moped tubes. No blowouts and "good" results (1st Fylde International). The others used the same size Kendas and I could always beat them. In the Euro champs Sharon was using my yacht, was "attacked" by a number of the other girls and next race I had a puncture just before the last turn. I sailed back on 2 wheels for a 5th place. We then put on Kendas, Sharon was dead last. I used the yacht next race and came round the first time in 54th, so "pit stopped" changed to Michelins and got back to an 8th. Now I know that there are people who don't believe, but I do. Straight line drag is an issue, but what the yacht does when it gets hit by a gust is sidways drag as it scrubs off. I reckon the soft sidewall absorbs this rather than scrubbing, result = more forward speed. It's my theory and I am sticking to it!

In the case of the class 3 I know that the 115-380 Michelin potato picker tyres (thats the machine they are made for) are very supple in the sidewall, like the 125 Citroen 2cv tyre. The bike tyre I don't know the ply rating, but you can imagine what a flexi sidewall tyre would be like on a race bike, and it would not be pretty! I do know that there was no perceptable difference in the weight (being a race bike they carry no excesses)
In the case of my class 5, exactly the same ratings everywhere. Load, plies, sizes, speed rating. Just the way they felt. The Michelin had much more sidewall flex.
This is also why I know (in my own mind without doubt) that some of the conclusions reached in regard class 5 26" tyres being absolutely better than 19" may be erroneous. The downhill mountain bike tyre is made to absorb some of the ground irregularities, so is a "perfect" tyre for landyachts. The 19" which was being compared we know nothing about. I believed in this so much that I was importing 100 Michelin tyres at a time in the "good old days" and passing them on at cost. When I stopped the others here would get anything they could, so the "science" may not be that sound.