google x-sail and have a look--- a commercial one

When you take into account exchange rates the x-sail seems more expensive than a blokart and just my personal opinion I dont think they look as good, especially as they only have one colour. Maybe thats just my female side showing though.

daisygirl said...

When you take into account exchange rates the x-sail seems more expensive than a blokart and just my personal opinion I dont think they look as good, especially as they only have one colour. Maybe thats just my female side showing though.

Haha, yeah and I'd prefer to help NZ's economy rather than the UKs. When I looked into them further they were built by an Ex-blokart dealer in the UK who was unhappy with Blokart Inc for some reason. It might have just been the shipping costs he was unhappy with. I thought might as well stick with the original as they're built in this part of the world.

You're right Cisco, I've got more hits on Ebay when searching for Blokarts now than ever before, although I think that might be because a dealer is now using Ebay to sell them. I think Daisygirl needs to step up her "Rescue Unused Blokarts" mission!! We need to get all those unused ones into the hands of people who will use them, especially the 30 or so hidden around SA as I want to go sailing with them!!

I dare say you only have to change a design by 15% and your on a winner,interesting to know what Blokarts standing is on this rip off.[}:)]

The blokart would more likely to be protected by at least one "Registered Designs" rather than a patent.
As described by the Australian patent office
A patent is a right granted for any device, substance, method or process which is new, inventive and useful.
And a Registered Design
A design relates to the features of shape, configuration, pattern or ornamentation which, when applied to a product, gives the product a unique appearance. A registered design can be a valuable commercial asset - registration of a design gives the owner protection for the visual appearance of the product but not how the product works.
As well as a trade mark for the name and logo

Many companies have got into problems with patents etc, ie "Windsurfer" the only thing they could patent was the pivoting mast step and not the whole thing.
Then someone did the same thing a totally different way and this is why there are so many different types of sailboard out there sailing now.
They would have been better off registering the design of the sail on a board, it would have given them more protection.
The other problem with trying to protect ideas worldwide is the huge $ cost then only to find that only a few countries in the world recognise it any way.
This is why so many copies of products come from "some" countries around the world.

I have gone through the process of registering designs on 2 occasions and on a 3rd item we didnt bother due to a limited market and we wouldnt have recouped the $ spent.

well this landsailer is now in the brotherhood of seabreeze

i went crazy and bought it...to be honest I couldnt afford a secondhand blokart...everyone is asking too much or perhaps too close to the new price,I know it will come down at some stage but I guess its still too new.So due to this I had to pick something affordable..although I had wanted a blokart.

So a prospective blokarter looks elsewhere because it seems the secondhand market IS too high or is artificially too high????I guess the market isnt saturated yet...but at 600 sold I would have thought there would be a plethera of second hand blokarts fighting to find a new owner. Guess not.

...down the track if i like the sport, I may go to a blokart [by then second hand blokarts may be affordable ]. I am hoping this one doesnt turn me off landsailing...hee hee. I am under no delusions that sometimes buying a substitute for "your want" can ultimately lead to unhappiness but hoping this is the start of a new sport..

I was hoping to get a blokart too for my health reasons, as it would make it easier to move, but money is also hard to find so I have this landsailer.

Being I am in Sydney and it in Melbourne I normally would baulk at buying but by coincidence my new girlfriend's son lived 15 minutes away [with a promise of picking it up for me] so i bought it sight unseen and he has picked it up.

Coincidentally I am going down there with my girlfriend to pick up some vintage car tyres and meet the son for the first time...so it all fell into place.
Although now her little toyota echo will not hold all this so my falcon van as sick as it is, must take the chance of this long trip..I hope I dont break down, and the cost of petrol...ohhhhh..but thats the lure of hobbies..

Her son [a mechanic] has told me it looks well built , but the wheel bearings make a hell of a racket, although the advert says bearings recently replaced.

I have an assumptiom these must be open bearings which he did not grease as that would attract sand etc,{i remember too the [early 1980's] trick used in racing radio controlled cars was to run the bearings dry thus reducing grease friction and/or reducing dirt in the bearings sticking to grease, ultimately reducing the life of the bearings but increasing speed due to no grease slowing up the hubs]

either way is a lose situation..my guess is I'll be looking for some type of sealed bearing...at this stage i have no idea what type of bearing is fitted...nevertheless my exitement will be elevated or released on viewing it for the first time..

This I bought from a second owner who bought it from the builder.
Apparently it was a tech or school project with a father an engineer ,I'd say it was the fathers project more so...yes I had reservations about the seat position, but I am pushing it, affording this anyway..an affordable second hand blokart was just a dream..this is reality.

I have windsurfing sails i can adapt too if needed, which would not be applicable in a one design blokart heritage.

thanks hillsy for the nice reply

yes it is stainless and you are right..hee hee [name is a derivation of my first name and in relationship to the rusty vintage Sunbeam Rapier rally car I was driving when I joined this site.]

yes bearings can be sorted and that advice on sewing machine oil is good...
i never ran my RC car bearings dry and I too used very weak oil cleaning them after every race day..so your advice sits well with my experiences previously...

will get some photos together when its back in Sydney.

When people say that the price of secondhand blokarts is too high or "artificially" high just wondering how much would people think is reasonable for a second hand kart is good condition? I know its a case by case but just interested?? I would have thought that half price (ie approx $1900) for a sports model only 3 yrs old would be a good price??

hills said...

I personally hope Pauls LF minis might fill this void once he pulls his finger out and builds a few more!!

But hillsy thats why the plans are on seabreeze ..... so anyone can build the Lefroy Mini.....
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33825

daisygirl said...

When people say that the price of secondhand blokarts is too high or "artificially" high just wondering how much would people think is reasonable for a second hand kart is good condition? I know its a case by case but just interested?? I would have thought that half price (ie approx $1900) for a sports model only 3 yrs old would be a good price??

perhaps as the writer of those words "too high and artificially too high", my take on things may help in this quandry.

yes i believe half price is about right, but having said that I had only ever found one offered on ebay say at a starting point of $1800 [about a year ago] it eventually went for around $2200 [yes I had been checking on seabreeze for second hand ones since]...I think I put its new price at $2900 by googling or the owner stated as such.But it was unused.

at the time I was tempted at $1800 and thought oh..another will appear at that price..unfortunately when I started looking again, all I could find were well over $2200 many up near $3500 or more with extras...

now this is fine if you already know you are wanting to invest in a new sport..but as I am a windsurfer this was a bit of a whim, and as such $2200 upwards is not whim money...most seem to be advertised close to new price [so the temptation would then be to buy new, but this is not whim buying for me]..so really there is no choice as yet..i do believe this will change but just not yet.At the time I could have been tempted out of $1800 but now 2009, I do not have that to spend on a whim.This one nearly broke me.

finding this cheaper landsailer was by chance not by design.. wasn't looking this time for a blokart [or any landsailer for that matter] as I had concluded blokarts were out of range of economical experiment. I was looking on ebay for windsurfing gear and a search, perhaps for sails alerted me to its existance and other blokarts on ebay as well.....it was a quick decision to "give it a go".

if any are advertised half price then I think thats ok, but I had never since seen any advertised at this half price point.[sure I have not constantly been searching, and its interesting to note that a thread has been set up on Seabreeze to find secondhand blokarts..this in itself indicates very few come up for sale or perhaps even sail,]

Windsurfing gear suffers massive drops in price from new very quickly, I figure other sporting gear in Aussie would too.It is not a reflection on the product and its worth, its more a reflection on selling trends in Australia, and the smaller secondhand buyer market open to a relative unknown sport as far as sports in Australia are concerned. So dont think that the value of a Blokart is under scrutinee here...the whim is.

True a one design formula [as blokarts] does mean that models are not superseded, but I will say I read that there are newer blokarts which indeed have improvements, thus in a way making older one design blokarts "keeping up with the joneses superseded"..at least in the minds of those racing...or those wishing to keep up with the joneses,,

so in fact older models should have plumetted already in price because of this strange anomoly.Although these changes may be slight they still mean the older ones dont have the said changes or improvements and in theory they will become less wanted.Everyone wants the latest and greatest even though these are one design machines.well One design principles at least keeps designs close enough.

I think my take on affordability is a valid expression, maybe indicitive of a lot of would be blokarters ...we want one, but its just a big spend..warranted or not.

At the new price around $4000, being a reformed vintage car enthusiasts/collector I would be more compelled to put that money into a vintage car which usually increases in value or at leasts breaks even ,when you know what your doing...
but as I am no longer working on vintage cars I am looking to other hobbies to distract me from these contraptions [cars], infact I have a 1955 Morris Minor sedan for restoration I'd happily swap for a blokart, tee hee. [used to be my everyday car]


Those already won over by the sport can see the value, those of us impressed by what they see but have not experienced, look at value in a different way.

This in no way is saying the blokart is not worth its value..its simply saying many newcomers enter sports /hobbies on a whim, some sports/hobbies have lower entry costs, others dont...example a newcomer to windsurfing can start sailing on an old longboard for $100 up to $500 or a second hand widebord from $500 to $1500 .....economic choices are there...
[yes windsurfuing is an old sport comparatively and as such leaves many old kit worthless as Windsurfers are truley keeping up with the joneses people]

some sports [blokarts] are so new that the cheaper economy of secondhand is not viable for many...one day if sales of new blokarts continue then secondhand may become common..until then not all newcomers can enter the sport if the funds dont match the committment.


phew...

so endeth the second reading
copies of this speach can be obtained from the foyer

rustbucket said...
[br
True a one design formula [as blokarts] does mean that models are not superseded, but I will say I read that there are newer blokarts which indeed have improvements, thus in a way making older one design blokarts "keeping up with the joneses superseded"..at least in the minds of those racing...or those wishing to keep up with the joneses,,

so in fact older models should have plumetted already in price because of this strange anomoly.Although these changes may be slight they still mean the older ones dont have the said changes or improvements and in theory they will become less wanted.Everyone wants the latest and greatest even though these are one design machines.well One design principles at least keeps designs close enough.

Those already won over by the sport can see the value, those of us impressed by what they see but have not experienced, look at value in a different way.

Blokart, by committing themselves to "One Design", would seem to have painted themselves into a corner.

The original model blokart is probably still the best. As a matter of fact one of the champion Kiwi blokarters still races an original model blokart I believe, and it was at Yeppoon at the last meet in glorious black and neon red colours.

An old and well maintained blokart chassis that has had it's rig and sail kept up to date, in theory, and apparrently in practice, will perform just as well if not better than the latest generation of blokart with all the bling that comes with it. I personally believe the older karts are better made.

So in general the factor that ensures high resale value of a second, third or fourth hand blokart is it's "One Design" nature.

After that it then comes to the condition of the blokart in question.
1. Are any of the chassis members bent?
2. Is there rust in the chassis?
3. Are the axle extensions a snug fit in the rear cross member. (Are they worn and need replacing? Blokart sells quite a lot of replacement parts as well as new karts.)
4. Are the stub axles straight or bent? (Easy to check by spinning the axle in the wheel.)
5. Is the handle bar shaft straight or has it been bent by being caught in the sheet in a gybe and then straightened? Roughly!!
6. Has the seat been stretched by too big a bum?
7. Does the floor pan rattle under the chassis? (Does it need to be re-riveted.)

We can now start on the mast, rig and sail. (Are we getting the point yet?)
8. Is the mast bottom section a snug fit in the step.
9. Are the progressive mast sections a snug fit all the way to the top?
10. Are there any cracks in any of the mast sections?
11. Is the boom whip of original length or has it been snapped a few times?
12. Are there any holes or rips in the mast sock?
13. Are there any repairs to the sail?
I could go on but I won't. Suffice it to say that it is not possible to put a blanket, half of new price, on a second hand blokart or any other land yacht just because it is second hand.

Windsurfers are a totally different market and no comparison can be drawn.

A question often posed to me when I was presenting blokarts for sale is "What are they worth?" I would respond to the question with another question which was, "Do you really want to go land sailing?"

To a positive or undecided answer I would respond with, "They're WORTH whatever they cost mate, do you want to try one out now?" (Fish or cut bait.)

To a negative answer I would respond with, "You could own this beauty for $5 mate. I am raffleing it off with only 1000 tickets. How many tickets do you want?" (Fish or cut bait.)

And so it is with land sailing and any other thing in life rustbucket; Do ya wanna do it, do it, do it? Do not get the idea that we are all nutters. Believe it!!

My personal experience is that land sailing is the most exciting speed thing I have ever done where I feel I have precise control, the feeling of being on the edge and a relative feeling of security from physical injury (ie I can push it as hard as I like).

So we all welcome you to the wonderful world of land sailing and hope the bug bites you really hard!! See you on some beach some where. Cheers Cisco.

thanks for the kind replies everyone

Promo girl said...

Welcome on board rustbucket, being broke at least you know you are amognst freinds I just want to correct you on a little point. Land sailing is not a new sport. What is new is the first real successful commercial landyacht for Aust. The NZ made Blokart. cheers Susan

thanks susan..
yes my incorrect way of saying commercial landsailing is a new sport [such as a one design setup of the blokart], not the sport itself..sorry wrote a lot but didnt explain it in detail what i meant.ie blokarts in particular.

regards value..I would have imagined they had been here long enough now to have a lot of fallen by the wayside owners happy to get a 50% return [rate of non users must be high with 600 sold.]..seems to me 600 sold is not a small amount for a fledgling hobby,

when windsurfers were fresh and there were few secondhand available ,I am sure many of those bought new were used but once and put away never to be used again..
I am sure this is the case too with blokarts,whether lack of time,locations,transport, many hobbies face this gotta have it now, but put it away tommorrow thing..and forget about it.

but again I understand if the hobby is expanding at an exponential rate demand may outstrip supply...at this stage its good for owners to have good resale,but evetually this has gotta change if the hope is to sell heaps of new ones in Australia.

but what still makes things difficult is the high get in value of around $4000 if you havent already been won over..this cannot be avoided but many hobbies have lost potential starters because there is no cheaper alternative to get into the class[one design], but can't be helped .And as I have found out alternatives from non commercial side of the hobby are still viable as a cheap get in to the hobby,

i think blokarts are great by what I've seen on google...still havent seen one in the flesh..its just that..i havent seen one,nor sailed one so my interest is at a stage of wow but i dont want to spend more than a $1000 ..simple...

That may have changed if I had stumbled across a meet or something but thats not easily possible..I am more a lone wolf sailer ,I never sail with anyone as a windsurfer. I am a landlocked sailer who has to drive an hour and half to sail reducing the number of hours I sail,further reduced by severe health probs.,

I am at an age where I do not have friends who want to sail..they are too old to try such a sport ..or so they think and mostly have never been water sport people anyway.50 year old friends are less likely to participate in such endeavours if they had never done so at an earlier age.Quite often they are surprised I can sail with my disability [the sailing or should i say lake CRUISING is easy when you sail underpowered, its the lifting boards and riggingsails that affects me most...but I just make sure I dont give up.

Its probably unlikely I will landsail in a group...unless a good site is available locally near Penrith ,this new sport to me is a sailing whim for me and as such must be approached with trepidation in spending..

no complaints on blokart's worth or fun factor or comraderie i see on this site,and on google,its the blokarts that got me interested because they had solved the problem of portability with a sorted landsailer.


but I hope perhaps my insights can help to show one of the limitations that many sports suffer when a cheap starting point for whim beginners cant be found.
Again I am not trying to say blokarts are not worth what they are.And was really trying to give another view from a potential blokarter that couldnt reach that potential..

I started the tread about second hand blokarts and now know of two available at Caboolture just north of Brisbane for $1900 each for a sports model There are also two down the Gold Coast - one a sports and one a pro which I am hoping to go and see soon as might even be good for myself. Obviously the pro will be about $1000 more than the sports.

Anyone interested in more info let me know.

Not really doing it to make any money but mainly we need more members in our club from Gold Coast, Brisbane, Sunshine Coast. As discussed by others, most people want to start of in a second hand kart and then upgrade if they love it (which is how I started). The only way to get more members is to find them karts and I seem to have a knack for it and as president of BBKC seems to work well.

That's not good to hear about your lungs Rusty. Hopefully your new landyacht will tax your adrenaline gland, not your lungs!