Forums > Sailing General

A bit of a recap.

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Created by samsturdy A week ago, 18 Apr 2017
samsturdy
NSW, 830 posts
18 Apr 2017 12:59PM
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I just want to recap the consesus of the forum regarding navigation charts on
laptops. I have a laptop and I want to use it for navigation (not a lot of space
on a 28 footer) I just want a chart that will cover the Broken Bay NSW area.
What, exactly do I need to do and purchase to achieve this ?.

EC31
NSW, 149 posts
18 Apr 2017 3:17PM
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I have a small netbook (12" screen, no CD) running windows XP with Memory Map. You would also need a GPS puck via usb. Excellent for short trips, especially down to the harbour as it has low power draw. I used to have a 12v to 19v adapter for it, but lost the specific adapter plug. Now use the inverter if required, but battery usually lasts 4 hours.

Longer trips I use my bigger laptop as the screen is easier to read from the cockpit when we tie it onto the table, and it has a 12v to 19v adapter. For my trip north later this year, I will have an iPad in the cockpit and use VNC to connect to the laptop screen and will then be able to watch the Memory Map chart while still at the helm.

If you are floating around one weekend, let me know and I can show you the setup.

Cav30
20 posts
18 Apr 2017 1:53PM
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I can't speak highly enough of Navionics. It runs on iPhones and iPads (and I think Android devices) No need to lug a laptop around with you. You can charge easily from a 12v output / USB socket. The entire maps on the iPhone for Australia are next to nothing. Perhaps I have missed something here but why use a laptop, gps dongle and clumsy charger when it's all built into an iPad.

Ed

samsturdy
NSW, 830 posts
18 Apr 2017 3:54PM
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Thanks EC. I have an ipad (somewhat elderly) that would be better to transport about. So where do I get
the Memory Map and GPS puck from ?.

samsturdy
NSW, 830 posts
18 Apr 2017 3:58PM
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Select to expand quote
Cav30 said..
I can't speak highly enough of Navionics. It runs on iPhones and iPads (and I think Android devices) No need to lug a laptop around with you. You can charge easily from a 12v output / USB socket. The entire maps on the iPhone for Australia are next to nothing. Perhaps I have missed something here but why use a laptop, gps dongle and clumsy charger when it's all built into an iPad.

Ed


Sorry Cav I posted before you answered. Do I need a real modern ipad or do the older ones still do the job.
If I go the app shop on the ipad is the Navionics app there?

Cav30
20 posts
18 Apr 2017 2:18PM
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Yes go to the App Store and search for Navionics. You want the Boating Australia and New Zealand version. Your aging IPad may be an issue. How old is it?

Lazzz
NSW, 257 posts
18 Apr 2017 4:24PM
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Memory Maps is well worth the money memory-map.com.au/memory-map-support/memory-map-downloads.html

Go to eBay & get yourself a Sirf 4 USB GPS to work with Memory Maps

The Navionics Web App is also very handy : webapp.navionics.com/?lang=en&ticket=ST-1475267855r6INyaMkuV-B9tySTwq#boating@9&key=hl%60lEmlez%5B

I have Navionics on my Plotter & OpenCPN on my Raspberry Pi3 which is also very good.

samsturdy
NSW, 830 posts
18 Apr 2017 4:39PM
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Not sure how old it is Cav. There's an Apple store locally so I might nick in there and ask how old it is and what
Windows it's running.

EC31
NSW, 149 posts
18 Apr 2017 5:31PM
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Also Memory Map has an upgrade to allow it to handle AIS. I haven't bought it yet, just finishing doing the cabling for the AIS receiver and will test after it is done in the next few weeks.

My iPad is a v2 (so very old) but only has wifi, no 3G. iPad's without 3G don't have the GPS unit built in, so not sure if Navionics will work. But mine easily connect's to the laptop to display the screen using a cheap wifi hotspot.

I agree that using an iphone/tablet is the new way to go. But the question was regarding using a laptop. I use my laptop for many other purposes while on board, all work related. I have other phone/tablet's available to me, but I need a laptop for my line of work.

I also have a Raspberry Pi2 that I will put to use on the boat at some stage as per Lazzz. But not at the moment.

Ramona
NSW, 3472 posts
18 Apr 2017 5:59PM
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Select to expand quote
samsturdy said..
I just want to recap the consesus of the forum regarding navigation charts on
laptops. I have a laptop and I want to use it for navigation (not a lot of space
on a 28 footer) I just want a chart that will cover the Broken Bay NSW area.
What, exactly do I need to do and purchase to achieve this ?.


You will need one of these.

www.ebay.com.au/itm/BU-353-S4-SiRF-Star-IV-USB-GPS-Receiver-FOR-LAPTOP-CAR-PC-/221057093602?hash=item3378078fe2:g:ohUAAOSwxH1UBbq9

Download Seaclear2. It's free. Also Opencpn is also free. Both handle AIS if you want to later.

I can supply any chart you will need.

sunycoastguy
QLD, 87 posts
18 Apr 2017 9:00PM
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+1 for Navionics on ipad. Works great on my samsung galaxy tablet, which runs android cost about $80
Or $15 to get it on a phone

Toph
WA, 1051 posts
18 Apr 2017 7:15PM
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I am liking Memory Maps (free download BTW) with the Australian Quickcharts package (the costly bit). If you can get hold of some charts elsewhere than Memory Maps and OpenCPN is essentially the same concept. But, have any of you guys using the Quick Charts figured out how to print the full size chart in on A3... All I seem able to do is print out what ever the chart is sized to on the screen.



Select to expand quote
samsturdy said..
Not sure how old it is Cav. There's an Apple store locally so I might nick in there and ask how old it is and what
Windows it's running.



Hey Sam, if it is an iPad, make sure you ask them what iOS it is running
But do this instead:
Go to Settings - General - About - Then scroll down to 'Version'.

Current version is iOS 10.3.1. Navionics where running on at least the Apple iPad 2 with what ever version that came out with. Your issue won't so much be the iOS that is running but more the processor speed of an older iPad.

PhoenixStar
QLD, 366 posts
18 Apr 2017 9:50PM
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Toph
I am liking Memory Maps (free download BTW) with the Australian Quickcharts package (the costly bit). If you can get hold of some charts elsewhere than Memory Maps and OpenCPN is essentially the same concept. But, have any of you guys using the Quick Charts figured out how to print the full size chart in on A3... All I seem able to do is print out what ever the chart is sized to on the screen.

Y
ou need the processional version to print effectively, then you can print to PDF at any size, I have all the charts I need in A2 format. The problem is that no printer will print for me without permission from the Australian Hydrographic Office. Once you get permission there are no more problems, the permission is held by the print company and applied to future printing. I'm chasing up that process now so wish me luck.

Update just now from Memory Map

Ian
If there is no print size restriction implemented by the software, then it is permitted under our VAD licence with AHS. Perhaps show your printer the EULA here memory-map.com.au/mapping-software/software-licence.html.
YOU ARE PERMITTED:
a) to load the Data into and use it on not more than two Computers and two Mobile Devices which are under your control (i.e. One home/office computer and one laptop or onboard computer);
b) to print a reasonable number of copies of the Data only for your own personal non-commercial and domestic purposes (or internally within your organisation).
YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED:
a) to print or display the data in any way for public use, for profit or financial gain.
b) to load the Data on to a network server for the purposes of distribution to one or more other computer(s) on that network or to effect such distribution (such use requires a separate license).
c) except as expressly permitted by this EULA and save to the extent and in the circumstances expressly required to be permitted by law, to rent, lease, sub-license, loan, copy, modify, adapt, merge, translate, transfer, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or create derivative works based on the whole or any part of the Data or use, reproduce or deal in the Data or any part thereof in any way.Otherwise you'll need to talk to AHS about this
Hope that helps
Regards
Terry
Memory-Map Aus/NZ support

sirgallivant
NSW, 698 posts
18 Apr 2017 10:48PM
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+10 for M.Map!
It is not just far superior as a nav aid to any other, but as the above post proves it, they give a toss!

If one decides to go without a built in proper chart plotter, a tablet - preferrably waterproof - will do.

After having a short hiatus with the toy-like Navionics l went for MMap as a secondary nav aid beside my proper plotter, and did not regret it ever since.

It is a simple, no bull**** electronic version of the WGS84 printed charts, without any added frills or added complications and game like features, additions like Navionics. (please don't chastise me because of my views, l do not like Navionics, no matter what! It is a complicated toy not a nav aid. Period.)

If one stays in inland or coastal waters where phone and internet coverage is available, one does not need a PUK. A simple tablet with internet connection and a built in independent GPS will suffice.
My Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 tablet serves me well and saved us from disaster in Hervey Bay last year. So it works fine away from shore.
Do not spend a penny on fancy computers and like!
K.I.S.S.!

claverton
NSW, 144 posts
18 Apr 2017 11:53PM
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Bought one of these little fellows the other day for my navigation needs. A Raspberry pi 3, it cost $60.50. It draws a tiny fraction of the power that a laptop uses, and Opencpn runs on it.

Easiest way to get Opencpn for this platform is via downloading OpenPlotter which has a whole host of other goodies including the SignalK protocol. I'll need a NMEA multiplexer to add to it, and a screen of course. Eventually I'd like to feed depth, speed, wind, compass etc (via a web page) to a couple of Kobo's (ebook readers, cheap and easy to read in the sun) so I can see what's happening in the cockpit and in the bunk. Haven't quite nutted out how to do this last bit yet...I may be able to do it within OpenPlotter or I may have to get the iKommunicate box.



sirgallivant
NSW, 698 posts
19 Apr 2017 8:11AM
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This quote is from the Practical Boat Owner web site after testing 14 apps as nav aids.
This was their conclusion:

"...So, would we use these apps for genuine navigation? The answer is a resounding 'yes'. The battery life and non-marinised nature of a tablet means you'd be mad not to have a proper marine GPS on board too but, with a failsafe, a tablet is a great way to get a plotter in your cockpit on a budget."

And here l would like to draw your precious attention to the words

'...you would be mad not to have a proper marine GPS on board too...'
Comment is not necessary.

Ramona
NSW, 3472 posts
19 Apr 2017 8:23AM
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With pretty much any picture programme you should be able to make a jpg from admiralty charts. I use ACDSee and make the image any size I like. load onto a USB stick and wander into Office works. Use the self operated machine and get a copy.

Ramona
NSW, 3472 posts
19 Apr 2017 8:29AM
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Here is a brief view of Seaclear with chart 808 running. Most expensive bit there is the logitec trackball.

sirgallivant
NSW, 698 posts
19 Apr 2017 8:30AM
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The same organ said the following about the different apps for raster charts for the devices tested:

"...Maxsea's TimeZero was our choice of the iPad raster chart apps, with a brilliant interface.
There are fewer options available for Android tablet users, but Navionics would still be our first choice, especially now that the extra Nav Module is available on Android. Memory Map was also a good performer, intuitive to use, and was our preferred raster chart app on Android, although MX Mariner deserves a mention thanks to its low cost.
Read more at www.pbo.co.uk/gear/14-tablet-navigation-apps-17096#IvOFmfBgGatOAICl.99

As l firmly believe in raster charts versus vector charts for safe navigation - raster charts being the official 'admiralty charts' - MMap is pretty well regarded.

PhoenixStar
QLD, 366 posts
19 Apr 2017 9:35AM
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An update on printing memory map charts,
I spoke to the Australian Hydrographic Service and they insist that the quick charts are subject to copyright and can not be legally printed. They insist that they are to be used only for route planning.
That opens up a can of worms,You are required to have a paper chart of the area you are in, so if you have persuaded someone to print A2 charts from Memory Map in the expectation that you are complying, and you are inspected, you may be liable under copyright law.

samsturdy
NSW, 830 posts
19 Apr 2017 9:44AM
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OK, you blokes have got my head spinning a bit. EC31 you mentioned a GPS puck, if I need
one where do I get it??.
Now I liked sirgallivants defense of Memory Maps which is backed up by Toph but I don't want to start any
war here, but right now it seems like that is a good way to go.

EC31
NSW, 149 posts
19 Apr 2017 10:41AM
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Select to expand quote


From EBay in the link above that Ramona put up.
I thought I brought Memory Map at Whitworths, but it appears not. You can get it online from here. memory-map.com.au
I have the East Coast map, covered everything I needed for the moment. Base version of the software is free, you pay for the maps. They are not really printable unless you have the professional version (which includes AIS) and even then you need a plotter to print them.

Also I checked a couple of weeks ago, I can find no reference that paper charts are a requirement any more. From my research, NSW and Queensland at least only require maps in paper or electronic. But if you have a recent link to suggest otherwise, please post it. But don't flame me that I should have paper regardless. That is not the point I am making.

Sam, perhaps you may just want to buy a Broken Bay map and laminate it. Available at www.boatbooks-aust.com.au
This one is from the 70's and is laminated onto my table. Works just as well and is much cheaper.





samsturdy
NSW, 830 posts
19 Apr 2017 11:18AM
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Well that is very true EC, a paper map IS much cheaper and y'know I've probably got one somewhere.
However having had a brief encounter with a Raymarine chartplotter on a friends boat I was sort of
hankering after a bit of technology, which is completely lacking on my boat. Am I just dreaming?????.

sirgallivant
NSW, 698 posts
19 Apr 2017 2:11PM
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Gentlemen, this is not an argument in any level, this is a discussion between civilised humans, so there is no hint to begin a war. Ok?

I am not here to defend a cause, mine or someone else's, l am simply stating what l think and practice.
If one might think otherwise, fine, no worries.
To clarify the situation, l am not a defender of MMap, l am only a very satisfied user of it as a secondary nav aid! To emphasize this statement, l repeat, as a secondary nav aid. If one decides to do away with his GPS plotter, fine, but it is not good seamanship in my opinion and l would not do it. Not in a million years. But this is my opinion.!
I am a believer of simplicity and MMap provides that while Navionics didn't (for me!) satisfy my needs. Period.

What l practice and preach is the best l found amongst the plethora of apps, charts etc. and l hope l can help someone out there. No strings attached, no guilt involved.

If one is moore familiar with computers and tablets he might be better in operating them but being an older generation guy who is not very savvy with those modern gadgets, l try to keep it simple. To top it, l sail single handed most of the time and the familiarity with one system - easy to operate and clear to read - is paramount!
My primary aid is my Northstar 567 GPS chart plotter with C-Map charts.
The closest to this system is MMap. So here am l.

As far as paper charts are concerned, legally necessary or not is beside my point, could be any age. They don't have to be the latest print to satisfy the authorities, as far as l know.
To navigate along the coast of NSW l use the same charts for years, marking them lightly with 2B pencils then apply an eraser when l am done.
So there is no huge cost involved. Updating a large scale chart is not that expensive. For fine navigation in harbours and so there are the always updated CMap charts on my GPS plotter and secondarily on my tablet, MMaps.

Years ago when l sailed into Newcastle and then Sydney first time at night, l did not use anything but my plotter and paper charts. (well, Alan Lucas's book and Ron's passage planner l do not mention)

samsturdy
NSW, 830 posts
19 Apr 2017 2:24PM
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Now I agree with that Sir. I too am an older generation, and I too want to keep
it simple which is why I asked the question in the first place. However Missus and
I are not blue water sailors and so a simple solution will do over a 'proper' chart
plotter. But if I'm going to do it then I might as well do it right and I say again
I liked your endorsement of Memory Maps.

samsturdy
NSW, 830 posts
19 Apr 2017 2:46PM
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Just to further things along a little, I went to the local CEX store to see what they had and
found a Samsung Galaxy 10.1 model p7500 for $170.00. I haven't checked eBay yet.

PhoenixStar
QLD, 366 posts
Wednesday , 19 Apr 2017 4:17PM
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Select to expand quote
samsturdy said..
Just to further things along a little, I went to the local CEX store to see what they had and
found a Samsung Galaxy 10.1 model p7500 for $170.00. I haven't checked eBay yet.


Don't know that model SS, but just check that it has a built in GPS, then it will do nicely. If you don't like navionics there are others. I love my plotter but because it came with the boat I think of it as a freebee, if it wasn't there I would be tempted to just use the android pad, and download the charts onto it so I would be independent of the internet. I have one of those as a backup. Only real problem is they are not waterproof and I really like to have something in the cockpit. I believe the later Samsungs are water resistant.
Regardless of the regs paper charts are another backup in case of something nasty happening like a lightening strike.
I'm a real pessimist, I have Memorymap on a notebook as well.

Cav30
20 posts
Wednesday , 19 Apr 2017 2:20PM
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For a wee bit more you can get the Tab 10.1 with 4G LTE. This will give you the option (with a pre-paid sim) to download maps, weather etc while out in the harbour.

au.webuy.com/product.php?sku=STABSAMS10516G4GUNLB#.WPb_-lWGOUk

I can also see that it runs the required version of Android according to the Navionics Google Play page (4.0 and up).

play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.navionics.singleAppOceaniaHD&hl=en

The above route is simple, easy and will give you a really good solution. $350 bucks all up with the software.

Yara
NSW, 593 posts
Wednesday , 19 Apr 2017 5:04PM
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If you have a place for a paper chart, that is best. Add Navionics on your smart phone and you can see where you are, and where you are going, and then check out the detail on the paper chart. We are talking Broken Bay and the Hawksbury, so it it is pretty easy to get around. I would add a fish finder/ echo sounder - it is always good to know how much water you have under the keel, plus it is another cross check on the chart, once you already have an idea of where you are.

I find for pottering around Broken Bay, my Navionics on an old Samsung S4 phone, was even better than the multi-function fancy display on a modern production yacht.

Ramona
NSW, 3472 posts
Thursday , 20 Apr 2017 8:29AM
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Select to expand quote
samsturdy said..
I just want to recap the consesus of the forum regarding navigation charts on
laptops. I have a laptop and I want to use it for navigation (not a lot of space
on a 28 footer) I just want a chart that will cover the Broken Bay NSW area.
What, exactly do I need to do and purchase to achieve this ?.


Download the chart you need from here.
www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/using-waterways/maps/boating-maps.html#HawkesburyRiver/BrokenBay.
Convert from PDF to JPG or BMP and using the picture programme of choice make what ever chart size you need. Or have a mate supply you with a chart!

Download Seaclear2 from here.
www.sping.com/seaclear/

Then using Mapcal which comes with Seaclear calibrate your charts. Make as many as you like and any size just keep the lat and long lines on the sides, you will need 3 or 4 points to calibrate.

All this can be done from the comfort of your home and either load straight on to your old laptop or on a USB stick and be totally portable.

You will need a GPS puck though and the one I linked to above is the Rolls Royce version. Stick with USB units. They vary in price from $40 to $70 depending where you buy it from. Older SIRF3 units are available for about $20 but the later units are far superior.
For a total cost of about $65 you can have a top notch nav station!

samsturdy
NSW, 830 posts
Thursday , 20 Apr 2017 9:24AM
Thumbs Up

All good stuff guys, thank you for the time and effort. I do have a depth sounder Yara, it came
with the boat and it's the only electronic thing on board. I'll get it all sorted, I just love playing
around with stuff.



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"A bit of a recap." started by samsturdy