Below waterline galley sink

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holdfastom
holdfastom
NSW
42 posts
NSW, 42 posts
14 Oct 2015 1:50pm
Hi All,

Wanted to improve my outflow from the galley sink...at the moment its connected through a foot pump which is quite dated so thinking of replacing it..I'm guessing this was done due to the fact that the bottom of the sink is below waterline however according to my calcs it seems to be a few inches above waterline....so can i connect to a thru hull without the pump or should i run it through a pump (and therefore just replace the foot pump).

Yara
Yara
NSW
1322 posts
NSW, 1322 posts
14 Oct 2015 6:20pm
If it is that close to the waterline you are going to get backflow sometimes if you dont have a pump.
Jode5
Jode5
QLD
853 posts
QLD, 853 posts
14 Oct 2015 9:20pm




Replace the foot pump with an electric Jabsco Diaphragm pump. These pumps are designed for that purpose and are self priming and can run dry. They do not require a filter and can pump large particles with out clogging. Your can connect it to a press button adjacent to the sink or if you want to be fancy, install a sump box with a level switch and use the pump to drain the sump box (this is what my boat has). Do not use the shower boxes with the integral little pumps as they clog unless you use a filter which will also keep clogging up an need cleaning. The Jabsco diaphragm pump will cost about $400.00 be it is worth ever cent.
I would not drain directly to the water , every boat I have had with direct drains has created problems when the boat is healed in rough water.
DrRog
DrRog
NSW
608 posts
NSW, 608 posts
14 Oct 2015 10:25pm
Jode5 said..


I would not drain directly to the water , every boat I have had with direct drains has created problems when the boat is healed in rough water.


Unless you have sea cocks on them and close them when you expect to heel more than is polite. But if you forget, then you've got water sloshing out of your sinks. :)
Jode5
Jode5
QLD
853 posts
QLD, 853 posts
14 Oct 2015 9:49pm
DrRog said..

Jode5 said..


I would not drain directly to the water , every boat I have had with direct drains has created problems when the boat is healed in rough water.



Unless you have sea cocks on them and close them when you expect to heel more than is polite. But if you forget, then you've got water sloshing out of your sinks. :)


A boat should be designed so as to be operated in all conditions with the sea cocks open. Sea cocks are there as a secondary means of isolation. Who has not remembered to shut a sea cock? I know 2 people who have forgotten to open sea cocks on their motors and stuffed their water pumps. My boat is alway left in a condition where it can be immediately operated, unless it is not going to be used for a period of time and then I flush fresh water into alI the lines. This eliminates all orders.
Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7757 posts
NSW, 7757 posts
15 Oct 2015 8:02am
I leave my sink seacock open. Close the engine seacock though and the engine key is on a tag that hangs off the seacock.
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
15 Oct 2015 9:12am
I close all my seacocks when not on the boat and have a big tag on my keys, similar to Ramona's approach. You might damage a water pump impeller if you forget to open the engine cock before starting, although a check of exhaust water after starting should be standard practice. Far more serious is losing your boat when a water pump seal or hose fitting fails and fills the boat with water. A power boat in my bay sank last year because an engine pump seal was leaking badly and the owner was absent longer than he expected.
At sea it is often best to leave cocks open as the slamming into seas and consequent pressure surges can weaken through hull fittings. With the cock open there is no pressure on the fitting. I still usually close the engine and toilet cocks at sea as the pressure acts on other fittings in the systems. Sink cocks I leave open.
Jolene
Jolene
WA
1624 posts
WA, 1624 posts
15 Oct 2015 8:13am
Some boats will fill with water through the sink especially when beating. I know of a boat that took on about 1200lts of seawater during a race before the sink cock was closed.
Trek
Trek
NSW
1216 posts
NSW, 1216 posts
15 Oct 2015 11:53am


Im with you Morningbird, the seacocks on Trek are always closed unless theres a purpose for them being open.

And checking exit of cooling water once engine started is motoring lesson 101 .... second only to checking diesel fuel is turned on before motoring off the mooring and stalling in high winds :-)

The electric pump looks great, pity its not cheap.
Jolene
Jolene
WA
1624 posts
WA, 1624 posts
15 Oct 2015 9:57am
[b]Jode5 said

A boat should be designed so as to be operated in all conditions with the sea cocks open. Sea cocks are there as a secondary means of isolation. Who has not remembered to shut a sea cock? I know 2 people who have forgotten to open sea cocks on their motors and stuffed their water pumps. My boat is alway left in a condition where it can be immediately operated, unless it is not going to be used for a period of time and then I flush fresh water into alI the lines. This eliminates all orders.

I find that makes perfect sense, I worry that if out sailing and the motor needs to be started in an emergency, not necessarily by me, that in a panic situation a closed engine seacock may be overlooked and it all could end in disaster
Jode5
Jode5
QLD
853 posts
QLD, 853 posts
15 Oct 2015 7:49pm
Jolene said..

Jode5 said

A boat should be designed so as to be operated in all conditions with the sea cocks open. Sea cocks are there as a secondary means of isolation. Who has not remembered to shut a sea cock? I know 2 people who have forgotten to open sea cocks on their motors and stuffed their water pumps. My boat is alway left in a condition where it can be immediately operated, unless it is not going to be used for a period of time and then I flush fresh water into alI the lines. This eliminates all orders.


I find that makes perfect sense, I worry that if out sailing and the motor needs to be started in an emergency, not necessarily by me, that in a panic situation a closed engine seacock may be overlooked and it all could end in disaster


As I said the boat should be able to be operated in all sea conditions with the sea cocks open. It is then up to you if you want to close the sea cocks as a secondary safety device and manage your procedures when setting sail. There are many ways to manage procedures and some of the above procedures do make good sense.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
15 Oct 2015 10:57pm

My sink is slightly on the port side. My sink drain goes to port to a sea cock just above the waterline. Therefore when on a stbd tack there is a risk of flooding via the sink. The sea cock is accessible via the cockpit locker but doing that each time I tack is not practical. What is practical is the cock in the sink drain line just below the sink, especially when some idiot loses the sink plug

The rest of my sea cocks I only open when I want water coming in or going out. The rest of the time they are left shut. But that is my boat and I keep things simple. All boats are different and all owner/operators need to work out what is best for their vessel.

I was working as engineer on the Heron Island transfer ferry some years ago and it had a four page pre start up check list that was crucial to be followed as well as the shut down check list.

First item in the morning was open sea cocks. Last item in the evening was close sea cocks.

It does not matter much what your operational plan is. What matters is that you have one and you stick to it.
samsturdy
samsturdy
NSW
1659 posts
NSW, 1659 posts
16 Oct 2015 9:25am


I close all my seacocks when leaving the boat except for the cockpit drains, I have two,
they both drop vertical hoses to seacocks which are open ALL the time.......or should I
close 'em.?.
DrRog
DrRog
NSW
608 posts
NSW, 608 posts
16 Oct 2015 9:37am
Agree with much above.

Jode5, many of us have 30 year old boats and things like the height of sinks aren't easily modifiable. When sailing with my wife we never heel enough to fill the sinks; solo or with mates is a different story.

Procedural options:

- According to Beta installer, the engine can be started in an emergency with raw water sea cock closed; it just has to be opened 30-60 seconds later to avoid overheating.
- If, like me, you hang your key off your engine sea cock and wish to close it (say, when sleeping) but keep the key in the ignition for quick escape in a 'situation', you can hang something from the key as a reminder. I hang a little cow bell type thing for this.
- I'm in the process of labelling sea cocks which are numbered from deepest to shallowest for easier communication between missus and I. Also need a tickable, erasable 'leaving the boat' check list. A mini whiteboard should do. Anyone else do anything similar. (Sorry for thread diversion, Holdfastom).
HG02
HG02
VIC
5814 posts
VIC, 5814 posts
16 Oct 2015 9:50am
One thing to remember if the engine seacock
Is closed and you power up the engine some sea strainers in old boats can become air locked and the cooling pump might not pick up your sea water after opening the sea cock
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
16 Oct 2015 9:39am
samsturdy said..


I close all my seacocks when leaving the boat except for the cockpit drains, I have two,
they both drop vertical hoses to seacocks which are open ALL the time.......or should I
close 'em.?.


You should only close them when you want to have a bath.
DrRog
DrRog
NSW
608 posts
NSW, 608 posts
16 Oct 2015 11:02am
samsturdy said..


I close all my seacocks when leaving the boat except for the cockpit drains, I have two,
they both drop vertical hoses to seacocks which are open ALL the time.......or should I
close 'em.?.


Oh right. Mine are glassed straight through. If there's a risk of a hose or join below the waterline breaking then I suppose they should be closed.

There's also a case for opening and closing seacocks regularly enough to promote their free movement, wouldn't you say everyone?

Then again, if they've not been moved in many years you might want to leave them until you're on the hard?
HG02
HG02
VIC
5814 posts
VIC, 5814 posts
16 Oct 2015 1:35pm
HG02 said..
One thing to remember if the engine seacock
Is closed and you power up the engine some sea strainers in old boats can become air locked and the cooling pump might not pick up your sea water after opening the sea cock


I meant to add a little more
My old sea strainer was well above the water line when I bought her . and if you did runj the motor before the sea cock was open you ended up with empty sea strainer along with a water cooling pump pumping air.
Its now lower (@ sea level slightly higher) and right where I can see it.
Ive two sea cock in the forward cabin that I would not even try to open they have now been removed completely and the ruminates will be epoxied over along with the speed log hole . Also the sink drain has already been glasses over . Ill pump out


Colombo7E
Colombo7E
QLD
29 posts
QLD, 29 posts
16 Oct 2015 1:07pm
G'day
I have Cooling Water Flow sensor on inlet of water pump. If some reason flow stops I have audible alarm and warning light.




HG02
HG02
VIC
5814 posts
VIC, 5814 posts
16 Oct 2015 2:21pm
Colombo7E said..
G'day
I have Cooling Water Flow sensor on inlet of water pump. If some reason flow stops I have audible alarm and warning light.





Id like to know where you bought that flow sensor Colombo
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
17 Oct 2015 12:43pm
DrRog said..

There's also a case for opening and closing seacocks regularly enough to promote their free movement, wouldn't you say everyone?

Then again, if they've not been moved in many years you might want to leave them until you're on the hard?



Definitely a good point. If you have ball type sea cocks that have not been opened for a while barnacles can grow on the ball and when opening them there is a risk that the barnacles will tear the teflon, rubber or plastic sealing ring.

Another reinforcement of the "Use it or lose it." philosophy.
Colombo7E
Colombo7E
QLD
29 posts
QLD, 29 posts
17 Oct 2015 1:34pm
G'day HG
I got Flow Switch from my friend in Finland He have company dealing Industrial Instruments.
If you like one I can ask him send one.
HG02
HG02
VIC
5814 posts
VIC, 5814 posts
18 Oct 2015 5:47am
Colombo7E said..
G'day HG
I got Flow Switch from my friend in Finland He have company dealing Industrial Instruments.
If you like one I can ask him send one.


Yes please Colombo
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