QLD
89 posts
Hi all
Thinking of buying an 81ft steel hull ketch for running surf charters in Indo/Maldives etc. Boat was built in 1991 and runs a 135HP diesel Perkins engine. What worries me is the price is quite cheap (less than $200k US). I am going to get a marine survey done and a mechanic assess the engine, however it may not be able to be dry docked during the process.
I have I have a few questions (sailing experience is limited to sailing from Cape Town to the Caribbean as crew when I was 19 years old):
- How many people does it take to sail an 80 foot ketch, apparently all sails can be run from the cockpit but I don't think they are electric? I plan on getting a couple local Ondo crew for charters
- how much would it cost to put electic winches for all sails in the cockpit (two jibs, main sail and back sail)
- can you change the internal configuration by cutting out walls (currently sleeps 12 but happy to drop to 8 to make a bigger lounge/kitchen/Dining room - would have all the woodwork done in Indo by a carpenter friend of mine, just interested in hearing if you can change the internal layout of a steel hull boat?)
- how much is a refurbed new diesel engine and fitting if this engine isn't 100%?
- how much would it cost to reprint the hull and deck (if required)
- how much would it cost to refit all electrics to support Plasma Tv, DVD system etc.
- how much would it cost to put an Aircon in it and would you new to run the engine to run the Aircon?
- I've seen all the "hidden running costs" of a boat, what other nightmares could await in things that could be wrong with a 21 year old boat of this size?
Thanks in advance
Oscar
QLD
89 posts
Thanks SeaTrek, to be more specific it is $170k before I have made an offer so I am thinking about 130-140k, is that still quite high? Interested in your comment of 60ft, would you mind giving a bit more insight?
Many thanks
QLD
880 posts
Is it cheap or expensive?
All depends on condition and equipment. It is not about to spent 50k or 100k to modify the boat but -Was the boat build to certain standard or how much all compliance going to cost, to get offshore survey , you can run the business .
I was helping to get 47footer in off shore survey, the boat was nearly brand new and you would be very surprise requirements you have to comply with.
NSW
7758 posts
If you were to bring the vessel to Australia as a charter boat at that size you will require a Master class 5 ticket or a coxswains ticket, I can't remember the cut off length for a coxswains ticket. That will take you a couple of years but you can always employ a skipper till then.
Perkins at 135 hp power is probably turbo charged and after cooled. Mate just installed an ex navy Perkins same spec, fully reconditioned for $8000. It was supposed to have been installed in a large yacht!
That size vessel and all the electrical requirements will necessitate an auxiliary engine as a generator, Kubota directly coupled to a generator, at least 8kva 3 phase 415 volts. Probably better to go straight to 16kva. 415 volts to run air conditioning and pumps etc. 240 volts split off the phases to run household 240 volt items.
First thing is to check is what the local authorities will require of you.
Steel yachts will require lots of maintenance, lots of paint! And some place to moor it.
NSW
2711 posts
I'll be a bit of a devils advocate here as the last thing you need is people saying what a great idea based on a dream of making a living sailing off into the sunset. If you can manage the risks you can exploit the opportunities.
I'm not sure whether Oz survey standards are accepted in other countries, Classification Society e.g. Lloyds/BV/DNV/GL might be needed for a commercial passenger carrying purpose in multiple countries. Check the requirements in Oz as they are pretty standard around the world nowadays and you will need Oz standards if you intend coming into any Oz ports.
If it wasn't built to class/survey , it could be very expensive to get it into class/survey. On an 80 ft boat the inspections would be numerous and include cutting numerous holes in the hull and superstructure. If it was built to survey has it been kept current. The requirements for anchors, steering, fire, escape routes, life saving equipment etc are critical.
A vessel is only in Class for the owner, when you buy it you will need to have the class transferred to you which will require a full out of water survey by a qualified commercial surveyor (not a yachtie surveyor as they don't have the competency for this) or a class society. I know the Oz Lloyds rep and could, if you wanted, make a casual enquiry on what might be needed. I might do so anyway for my own benefit.
As Ramona noted you will need a Masters ticket, probably Master 5, maybe higher as I think a 5 has an offshore limit, and MED 1 or 2. Check what quals might be needed to carry commercial paying passengers. You need the required sea time as a Coxswain/Master 5/MED 1 to be eligible for the higher qual.
Gut feel based on some years in the commercial marine industry, is you could be looking at at least $250K to modify/refit and get into/regain survey. If it is in class/survey a lot less but still expensive to be a passenger carrying commercial proposition.
The commercial business management side of me then says what is the business plan. Who is the target market, what will they be willing to pay, how are you going to get the paying pasengers, what is projected revenue, what are the outgoings in fuel, maintenance (I worked for a shipping services company and commercial level maintenance is high cost, you can't do much yourself and maintain it to Class), crew costs, victualling, port fees. I could go on forever.
Of course, you could just do it but you wouldn't have a business that you or others could trust and you will be risking a lot of money.
TAS
824 posts
Just a quick thought, 81ft and only 135hp??
An Uncle of mine has a 64ft steel ketch with a 120hp Ford and it won't push it into 30 knots even after it has been re-propped so it only does 7-8 knots flat out.
As far as running the aircon and plasma etc. you would need a generator and that would probably close to a $10k venture.
Don't worry about making all the winches electric, there are some good electric winch handles out there for around $800 so I'd just start with two of those.
Just my 2 cents
QLD
89 posts
Thanks everyone for the feedback, it has been incredibly helpful and, after spending several hours researching all your feedback it seems that the 81ft yacht will now change to something along the lines of a 44ft Caramaran that requires as little modification as possible to get it ready for potential chartering in the future. I am currently looking at some GRP vs Fibreglass options and also looking through those that have all the requirements already such as AC, tv, fridge/freezer, tenders, gensets etc.
I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and the detail in the responses, thank you!
QLD
880 posts
Sorry mate but you really should ask different question.
I am planning to do this ? whats should I consider ?
I put you in the picture, to your cat idea.
Australian build Sea Wind Cats. Build to all strict specification can get
in charter in Sydney harbor for 16 people.
No way you can leave harbor as a charter.
