Thoughts please gentlemen
The Walker H28 came out with a variate of sail configurations
Ketch
Ketch Cutter
Sloop
My boat is a ketch and as Ive all the masts and rigging off the boat at the moment and will be replacing the bod stay.
I am wondering what effect would a cutter have on the helm compared to a normal rigged ketch or sloop?

MorningBird said..
I'm not an expert but it should depend on total sail area as well as the stays they are on.
I put an inner stay on my sloop rigged boat, let's call it a slutter.
My furling headsail is a bit smaller than a full No1 genoa so with the staysail up I have about the same sail area up front as before. I haven't noticed any difference in the helm.
As the wind increases I furl the heady until all I have left is the staysail. With a couple of deep reefs in the main it is now better balanced as the centre of pressure of both main and foresail are closer to the mast.
A storm jib on the fore stay places the pressure much further forward while the main draft is also forward with the reefs.
An inner fore stay should give you more sail options, but you have quite a few already with the ketch rig. Will it be worth the effort, cost, additional halyard, sheets and increased complexity?

That was my way of thinking to Morning Bird I liked the idea of Furling a Genoa in as the weather picks up and use a stay sail . My walker does have a stay sail track . The original head sails are quiet abundant I think I have at least four various sizes. BUt As I get older I would prefer to use and add an extra furler
And stay in the cockpit as much as I can

Ramona said..
I like the idea of a cutter rig but only on a boat designed from the start as a cutter. Mast further back, staysail with hanks and a furling headsail. Adding a permanent stay for a staysail on a small boat might make tacking in moderate breezes a hassle. Proper cutter would have a decent sized staysail which could be sailed with just the staysail and main and tacked easily in moderate breezes and carry a high cut headsail for reaching etc. It would mean a bowsprit on an H28.

I have an inner stay quite close to my mast with a plastic roller but still have the occassional snafu with my headsail in light breezes.

The Walker H28 had an option of a cutter ketch with a bow spit length of 1.06 meter and the ketch had a bow spit length of0 .60 meter
Below taken off the H28 club web page
Component Measurement LOA 8.90 m LWL 7.37 m Beam 2.80 m Draught 1.27 m Displacement 5,000 kg Ballast 2,500 kg Headroom 1.88 m
Sail Area Ketch Sail Area Luff Leach Foot LP Main 16.45 sqm 8.85 9.20 3.54 Mizzen 7.3 sqm 5.90 6.25 2.36 No. 1 27.5 sqm 10.38 10.03 5.66 5.31 No. 2 * 21.1 sqm 9.08 9.09 4.82 4.65 No. 3 * 17.7 sqm 8.39 8.09 4.48 4.38 No. 4 10.54 sqm 7.79 7.08 3.07 2.71

Cutter Headed Ketch Sail Area Luff Leach Foot LP Yankee 12.40 sqm 9.09 6.67 4.24 2.74 Staysail 7.3 sqm 6.97 6.36 2.56 2.32 Drifter (No. 1) 25.7 sqm 9.09 9.39 5.76 5.30
Bowsprit Projection Past Stem Head Component Measurement Ketch 0.60 m Cutter Headed ketch 1.06 m A number of H28s were built during the 1970s by Walker Boat Co Ltd in Geelong, Australia. The original brochure makes mention of the robustness of the construction and the capability for long ocean voyages. The layup is heavier than other fibreglass H28 designs and the cockpit drains quickly expel green water. The Walker H28 hull has a lifted sheer and the draft has been increased. Also the transom is curved with the tiller passing through a slot in transom and attached at right angles to the rudderstock between the top pintle and the water line. This slot also acts as the cockpit drain, and because of this setup they have no lazarette or stern locker as the two side seats in the cockpit are moulded right through to the transom. The cockpit is enlarged. The deck moulding is also different with more of an upstand at the gunwale to take the stanchions. Most of the yachts built are ketch rigged with a bowsprit and taller rig with two sets of spreaders

sirgallivant said..
Words of wisdom from Ramona!
Mine is the same as he describes - furling genoa, hanked stay sail on the baby stay - except l got running back stays to apply when necessary. The genoa is hard to tack though, for the distance of the two stays. Higher winds coming, one drops the genoa, bends the Yankee and all is good and proper. You can see my misty deck without the baby stay on my avatar.

I sort of figured you would have to furl the Genoa to go about
the basics on the Walker ketch's are the same that is the mast is in the same location either cutter or standard lay out
On the later sail masters like Donks they moved the mast raft into the main cabin they also removed the bow spit on the sail master.
I think when the walker H28 first came out there was more money around to splash about and as the years past they altered things some to reduce costs and buying price and some also to modernize the walker hull.
Ill keep digging around for a while
I better go and do some work on the boat

I am currently going through similar thoughts as you HG02, I want to change my rig to a cutter. I have been pondering the thought of putting up a solent stay to a fractional rig position on the mast, like MorningBird described, or bring the inner stay down lower an add checkstays. Because I have a deck stepped mast with single inline lower shrouds, I like the idea of check stays for additional support. Im not so worried about helm issues and the like because I am not planning to sail it as a cutter , the genoa gives me all the sail and power I need, so I plan on having a storm jib( or small staysail ) furled on the inner that comes out when the head sail goes away. For me and my wife it is more about ease of handling sails.

surfershaneA said..
I have a cutter rigged H28 style ketch. The cutter rig with main and mizzen is invaluable sailing into the wind and preferable reaching. Downwind, I swap to a mid sized Genoa and mizzen only. Sometimes, to balance the boat or just get an extra few knots downwind, I fly a staysail behind the Genoa or gennaker with mizzen. In heavier conditions I go back to the small Genoa.

No way would I bother with the genoa into the wind. The cutter rig using a smaller Yankee up front is safer to handle, points better, trims better and is not prone to being overpowered causing knockdowns. If things get too heavy, I have found the staysail and fully reefed main will sail to wind.

Hi Surfer
I am wondering if your bow spit is the 0.60 meter long or the 1.06 meter long. Its just I intend to replace my bob stay from rod to wire and I have my masts off the boat at the moment. So I am tinkering with the idea of making a new bow spit to cutter length of 1.06 meter instead of my 0.60 meter which I have now.
The main masts are located in the same position all that needs altering is the bow spit length .
I will be resealing ever thing o the deck before the mast go back on and updating both bow and stern rails as mine as not as safe as that could be not middle rails.
Many thanks for the input so far

Sorry to jump in on your topic HG, but when I had the mast down I had the rigger put a t-ball joint thing for an inner stay in the top 1/8th of the mast. It's probably about a metre down. I'll make it removable, same as MB's setup. I'll consider making it rope instead of wire; I can't imagine that wire is easy to lash to the shrouds - isn't the inner forestay longer than the shrouds, MorningBird?

I thought I had a document in which Joe Adams explicitly said this could be done with the 31, but I can't seem to find it on my computer. Perhaps it's only in paper format somewhere.

Thanks Cisco

Let me know it you want to relinquish title on the furler Cisco

HG02 said..


Hi Surfer
I am wondering if your bow spit is the 0.60 meter long or the 1.06 meter long. Its just I intend to replace my bob stay from rod to wire and I have my masts off the boat at the moment. So I am tinkering with the idea of making a new bow spit to cutter length of 1.06 meter instead of my 0.60 meter which I have now.
The main masts are located in the same position all that needs altering is the bow spit length .
I will be resealing ever thing o the deck before the mast go back on and updating both bow and stern rails as mine as not as safe as that could be not middle rails.
Many thanks for the input so far

Kinda thinging mine might be the longer. I will have a look for you.

MorningBird said..
My inner stay isn't parallel to the forestay, it gets closer to the forestay as it goes up and attaches to the mast about a metre below the forestay. There is a rule the riggers use to determine whether a rig is adequately supported and by keeping the top inner stay attachment close to the top of the mast I don't need running backstays.

Also known as a Solent Stay. Good to avoid the extra work of runners.

HG02 said..

Bowsprit Projection Past Stem Head
ketch 0.60
Cutter Ketch 1.06

Yes, enough room for the yankee to pass with ease - which the boat came with - so looks like I have the dedicated cutter rig.

HG02 said..

surfershaneA said..

HG02 said..

Bowsprit Projection Past Stem Head
ketch 0.60
Cutter Ketch 1.06

Yes, enough room for the yankee to pass with ease - which the boat came with - so looks like I have the dedicated cutter rig.

Awesome Surfer

Surfer Shane any chance you could measure the full length of the bowsprit