Time share NO.

Syndicate YES.

There has been time share done on shagged out real estate which has only benefited the ones selling the time shares and the same thing has been tried on one 65 foot ex air sea rescue boat back in the 80s that I know of.

It was a con job that would have resulted in selling the boat for 10 times it's value. As far as I know it crashed.

Over the years there have been successful syndicates and many more I believe unsuccessful syndicates. The difference has to have been the basis on which they were set up.

If it was casual where it sounded like a good idea at the time so let's buy the boat and have a whale of a time, it is bound to fall apart.

If it is formalised where the syndicate members are bound to legal and fiscal responsibilities, there is a good chance of success in the endeavour.

The main rule of boat ownership is to NEVER let your boat/s ownership EVER represent more than 10% of your nett financial worth.

So membership of the syndicate would require a verified statement of assets and liabilities, income and expenditures. Nothing less would suffice.

The next qualifiers are passion and commitment which are hard to quantify but could be measured in face to face meets and cash on the table.

The legal structure of a syndicate is already established in law like a body corporate, companies etc. for which the main requirement is to have an Annual General Meeting and set a budget for the following year. Simple stuff really.

Ten members I believe is far too many for a yacht syndicate. Seven at the most, three is the minimum and possibly the best but five might be very workable. An odd number is good to prevent deadlocks in voting.

Your thoughts:-

My thoughts are, a 50 - 60 foot sailing vessel .
The syndicate would need an administrator , not me !
Possibly even a live aboard manager , not me ....yet !
In a marina in a good Holiday / cruising area .

Using the examples in the other thread, say purchase price of 150000 ,

Are very similar to mine except for the numbers and my comments below.

The syndicate would need an administrator , not me !

The term is treasurer and you would have to take your turn if elected to that position or it may be chairman or secretary. Three executive members are required by legislation and natural law.

Possibly even a live aboard manager , not me ....yet !

Also at which you will have to take your turn as circumstances dictate not law. The term is "Ship's Master" which does not require living aboard but does require a keen sense of vigilance which would be enhanced by your closest living proximity to the vessel.

This of course is where "passion and commitment" really shine.

Below is the type and price of yacht with which I think this concept could work. The syndicate should not rely on the commercial possibilities of operating it as a charter vessel. I have been in that game. It is very competitive and if the vessel is profitable, why would they be selling it for this price. It most probably needs the same amount spent on it.

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=13133122

I didn't think it was that good. Just tried to cover the main bases.

There are a bunch of other considerations too. If the syndicate members all lived in the same area it would have a good chance of working but if they were scattered over the country I doubt it.

Yes , great reply Cisco.

I agree with everything you say there , the unfortunate part of your reply is the part about 10 being too many . But you are probally correct .

Using the the 150000 figure , the difference between 15000 plus 2000 p/a maintainance and say 300000 plus 4000 is significant ( it's also double )

Especially when some people may be running another home based yacht .

Two more things ..... What do you think about the estimate of 20000 P/a as a maintainence budget on a good 150000 sv ?
And ....
Here's a promo for 10 partners instead of five ...... A Sailing vessel of 55 to 60 foot would more than likely need a crew of at least four or five ,say.
What are the chances of all partners being able to sail at the same time during the year ?
Even taking into account the single part owner bringing some ringin crew with him . I guess your model of five owners is assuming that the five owners have their own crew , ie mates

I am usually wrong ....but in some ways having 10 invested crew may be benificial .For finding crew / mates to sail with ?

What Are your thoughts on this ?

SandS said...

What do you think about the estimate of 20000 P/a as a maintainence budget on a good 150000 sv ?

I think the generally accepted figure for annual maintenance is 20% of the value of the yacht.

Re the number of members in a syndicate, the more the number the harder it is to get decisions made.

If a syndicate is set up for the purpose of racing a yacht on a regular basis, they usually work quite well.

One set up for cruising is a different kettle of fish or can of worms.

The example of Apollo III I think would be a great yacht for a 5 or 7 people syndicate with the purpose of international cruising for 12 or 18 months say for a Pacific Rim tour and maybe through the Panama for a tour of the Caribbean and Brazil.

Members could have FIFO guests at various points of the voyage.

That is the kind of thing that excites me.

SandS said...

But down the track, 40000 for 18 months of sailing then on going occasional tootling around some cruising mecca for the duration of life sounds like a good option .

Or sell the boat, dissolve the syndicate and everybody gets a good chunk of their money back.

^^ Don't go gettin' no evil ideas there SandS.

When you have a core crew who are committed to doing the whole trip and having a whale of a time The FIFO stands for Female Invitees are Fine Ogling and Fecking Intransigents can Feck Off.

Seriously though, it must not be an all male thing. The presence of the fairer sex keeps things more refined and civilised.

I read a fine pictorial essay many years ago called "Sailing Free Around the World" by the renowned photographer Laurie Le Guy.

That was done aboard a beautiful 40 foot Allan Payne yacht called Eclipse which unfortunately is rusting away in the Maryborough Slipway yard now.

If you can get hold of that book and get your wife to read it, she might gain a different perspective.

A yacht like Apollo III would a very exciting yacht to do it on but would need the numbers to make it work, definitely a minimum 5.

I think the owners of this yacht did a similar thing and it would be quite suitable for a syndicate of 3. Only $25,000 each to buy and then the on goings which would be proportionately less.

It would have to be a performance yacht and ex racing yachts have lots of room and make great fast cruising yachts.

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=12625475

cisco said...

SUNBURST needs the rod rigging replaced with wire but if the hull, engine and equipment are sound, this is a bargain at $25,000. Look at the room below. That foc'sle would convert into a great hole for foxes.

The Buhk should probably be replaced with a Kubota 43 hp. With a clean bottom it would push this yacht along at 9 knots. It did on my old yacht. With refrigeration should cost around $15,000. Rigging and sails say another $15,000 so for $55,000 you have a hot yacht ready to go.

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=10457348

And of course what will happen is that someone with just barely $25k will buy it and then find that he doesn't have enough left over to bring the boat back up to scratch and then will try and sell it after half of its been gutted and then finds out he has an unsellable item. End of story ...... end of Sunburst.

LooseChange said...
And of course what will happen is that someone with just barely $25k will buy it and then find that he doesn't have enough left over to bring the boat back up to scratch and then will try and sell it after half of its been gutted and then finds out he has an unsellable item. End of story ...... end of Sunburst.

A distinct possibility.

Yes if she is timber 75 is top dollar .... To much painting!

Plastic fantastic fo me !

Did you have any trouble with electrolysis with the aluminium hulls inside or outside?

What did you anti foul her with ? I have heard story's of the use of chilli powder being mixed in with the paint .

SandS said...
Did you have any trouble with electrolysis with the aluminium hulls inside or outside?

What did you anti foul her with ? I have heard story's of the use of chilli powder being mixed in with the paint .

Electrolysis with aluminium yachts is dealt with the same way it is with steel yachts.

You measure the electrical potential and fit standard anodes in sufficient volume to counteract it. Not too many and not too few, just the right amount.

The tales of aluminium yachts melting into the briny are a Furfy. It is measurable and calculable and therefore counteract able. At the level of high school physics that is not really taught these days.

When it comes to antifouling for an aluminium yacht, you find yourself between a rock and a hard place. Anything with a copper content WILL melt your yacht into the briny.

I was using an International Paints self abrading anti foul. When the hull got a bit slimy I would scrub it and watch hundreds of dollars worth of blue paint disperse itself into the salt water medium.

Regular anti fouls are a fact of life with an alloy hull. You can try adding powdered tetracycline (from a rural supplies shop, antibiotics for animals) to the paint. Never did find the ultimate solution to that question except to never use a paint with a copper content.

I am inclined to go with a hard non-cuprous anti foul and not let the yacht remain in the one place for more than a week, i.e. go sailing.

Hull material:- Up to 40 foot - glass. Over 40 foot - aluminium.

cisco said...

SandS said...
Did you have any trouble with electrolysis with the aluminium hulls inside or outside?

What did you anti foul her with ? I have heard story's of the use of chilli powder being mixed in with the paint .

Electrolysis with aluminium yachts is dealt with the same way it is with steel yachts.

You measure the electrical potential and fit standard anodes in sufficient volume to counteract it. Not too many and not too few, just the right amount.

The tales of aluminium yachts melting into the briny are a Furfy. It is measurable and calculable and therefore counteract able. At the level of high school physics that is not really taught these days.

When it comes to antifouling for an aluminium yacht, you find yourself between a rock and a hard place. Anything with a copper content WILL melt your yacht into the briny.

I was using an International Paints self abrading anti foul. When the hull got a bit slimy I would scrub it and watch hundreds of dollars worth of blue paint disperse itself into the salt water medium.

Regular anti fouls are a fact of life with an alloy hull. You can try adding powdered tetracycline (from a rural supplies shop, antibiotics for animals) to the paint. Never did find the ultimate solution to that question except to never use a paint with a copper content.

I am inclined to go with a hard non-cuprous anti foul and not let the yacht remain in the one place for more than a week, i.e. go sailing.

Hull material:- Up to 40 foot - glass. Over 40 foot - aluminium.

My first fishing vessel was an alloy Star built in WA. I took the option of having it painted at the factory which I always regretted later. The exterior would have been far better left bare alloy. At the time there was very little choice of anti foul for alloy boats and hull fittings for survey boats were scarce, better now.
My biggest drama was from other fishing vessels tied up alongside with copper antifouling. Had a serious case of two bob bit electrolysis along the waterline at one stage. While its easy to keep your own boats stray currents in check your neighbours may not be so conscientious. Cost me a fortune in anodes. Also had trouble when I noticed at low tide the bottom was in close proximity to an old tractor wheel on the bottom so I had to keep that area clean too. That being said I would still own that alloy Petersen if I needed a big boat.

cisco said...

Ramona said...
That being said I would still own that alloy Petersen if I needed a big boat.

Well everybody needs a bigger boat.

No , everybody WANTS a bigger boat , but the finance minister usually won't let them have it .