Dissconnect Batteries or not

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Moppo
Moppo
42 posts
42 posts
20 Apr 2016 7:22am
Hi Everyone
I hope you guys-gals can help with a question This question may be suited to people who own or have owned a steel hull yacht, but any advice would be appreciated.
Three months ago I was given a Roberts 34 Steel hull yacht. Yes it needed some work but because it was free It allowed me spend a few grand on her. First I slipped her as she had not been antifouled for 2 years I also shelled out for a shipwright report so I new what I was getting myself into. to my surprise there was very little wrong with her. NO INTERNAL RUST. I was very happy she is a very dry boat. Only a bit surface rust out side whit was easily fix.
Ok to my question. Before I owned her the last owner always disconnected the battery cables oven though she has three way on-off switch the reason he did this is he was worried about electrolysis. When I pulled her out the anodes {8 tear drop anodes} after two years they were is very good shape.
I find it a pain in the a** every time I get on board I have fit the battery cables in a tight spot as I said It does have a 3 way On off switch ie, start battery, house battery, Both or off. If I just turn it off can electrolysis still accur.
scruzin
scruzin
SA
564 posts
SA, 564 posts
20 Apr 2016 9:57am
Given you have a 3-way switch, disconnecting the battery sounds like overkill to me. Also, it means that your bilge pumps are disabled. IMO, bilge pumps should always be powered.
Moppo
Moppo
42 posts
42 posts
20 Apr 2016 8:46am
Bilge pumps are hard wired always on.
this was one of the things that the shipwright picked up. It did not have a bilge pump I have now fitted one but it is hard wired.
If I get some electrolysis from that so be it I would rather have a little bit of electrolysis than the boat sinking.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
20 Apr 2016 11:33am

They are about $85 each but I recommend you fit double pole isolator switches to each battery bank as is required on vessels in commercial survey.

These switches isolate the positive and negative sides of the batteries which eliminates any possibility of stray currents. The care you have to take with these is that when the engine is running at least one of them must be in so that you do not open circuit the alternator.

Your auto bilge pump, if hard wired and insulated correctly should give you no electrolysis problems.

You will have a heavy earth cable to your engine and one way or another, via engine mounts, prop shaft etc the engine will earth to hull. That earthing may be intermittent which will cause problems therefore I recommend fitting a proper earth cable from engine to hull. Good if it is bolted to the hull just inside where one of the external anodes is.
Moppo
Moppo
42 posts
42 posts
20 Apr 2016 1:49pm
Hey Cisco is this what you mean
www.whitworths.com.au/swch-batt-isolator-4
Charriot
Charriot
QLD
880 posts
QLD, 880 posts
20 Apr 2016 3:53pm
www.whitworths.com.au/swch-bat-orange

THIS WILL DO

Charriot
Charriot
QLD
880 posts
QLD, 880 posts
20 Apr 2016 3:57pm
AS Cisco described - ground everything, don't disconnect bat. minus ( new rota-switches control "plus " individual bat.
- make sure anything hardwired is properly fused / means correct rating fuse - not nails/
Trek
Trek
NSW
1215 posts
NSW, 1215 posts
20 Apr 2016 8:08pm


My 2c. (Battery electrolysis, not shore power electrolysis) is caused by the current flow from one of your battery terminals to the other via a mysterious route involving props, anodes radio grounds .... and across your joints of dissimilar metals. Disconnecting both terminals of the battery as the previous owner did certainly guarantees no electrolysis caused by ships battery as has been said. But technically speaking disconnecting one side should do it, no current would flow either. The current cant flow. Although if there was a damp salt coating on the side of the battery that was supposed to be switched off some current might flow. And electrolysis happens quite happily with a tiny current flowing over a long time.

I think the double pole battery isolator is a great idea and has two purposes. If you think about the circuit on the boat isolating only a side (ie switching off the positive of the battery with a big switch) will leave the negative side of the battery connected to wires running all around the boat looking for trouble at the worst time. If you isolate only the negative side (with a big switch) the positive of the battery will be connected to wires running all around the boat looking for trouble. If you cut off both the electrolysis cant happen as a wonderful side effect (unless the switch has a damp salty residue) but safety wise your wires cant cause any trouble even if they want to.
Crusoe
Crusoe
QLD
1197 posts
QLD, 1197 posts
20 Apr 2016 9:15pm
I've got a steel hulled boat and I have an isolator for the positive and another isolator for the negative of the engine start battery. They are both turned off when the engine is not in use. I also have hose batteries with are completely isolated from the engine batteries and any metal part of the boat. But to charge the house batteries they have their own 120A alternator on the engine and during this charging process, I have a 150A relay (comes on automatically) that connects the negative of the hose batteries to the engine negative to complete the charging circuit.

Beware of too many anodes as it can cause blasting of the paint. (more information below)

I also have a double pole isolator for the anchor winch and the anchor winch is always isolated when the chain is in the water.

Below is some reading that may help you to get to sleep

www.seabis.com

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Seabis-System-Corrosion/

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Silver-Chloride-Electrode-Hull-Anode-Requirement/


frant
frant
VIC
1230 posts
VIC, 1230 posts
21 Apr 2016 8:27am
There is absolutely no reason to disconnect the negative battery terminal even if it is grounded to the hull. Even were it possible for a circuit to be completed the negative connection will in fact make the hull the cathode in an impressed current system.
It is not possible to overprotect/blister paint by hydrogen evolution using sacrificial anodes, many eons ago when alkyd based paints were used on steel hulls it was possible to break down paint coating by saponification due to the alkalinity in the vicinity of sacrificial anodes. Not an issue now with modern coatings.
it is always recommended to break the power leads to anchor windlass with circuit breaker. It is possibly for a poorly insulated positive connection to become an anode to the negative terminal cathode and corrode the positive terminal. Ie the anchor well is usually soaking wet with salt water providing the electrolyte for this system.
An AC ground should not be terminated to the hull, this will effectively make the hull an anode to the earth grid. Also it is possible to discharge a DC component via the earth when using ac rectified speed controllers (hair dryers etc).
There is a lot of jumbo jumbo and misinformation available on the Internet,
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
21 Apr 2016 11:20am
Moppo said..
Hey Cisco is this what you mean
www.whitworths.com.au/swch-batt-isolator-4


Exactly!!!
Charriot
Charriot
QLD
880 posts
QLD, 880 posts
21 Apr 2016 11:55am
FRANT-An AC ground should not be terminated to the hull, this will effectively make the hull an anode to the earth grid.

should be - an AC ground - jetty - anything around the boat must be grounded
- the same potential is only way to avoid electrolysis.
frant
frant
VIC
1230 posts
VIC, 1230 posts
21 Apr 2016 12:09pm
Charriot said..
FRANT-An AC ground should not be terminated to the hull, this will effectively make the hull an anode to the earth grid.

should be - an AC ground - jetty - anything around the boat must be grounded
- the same potential is only way to avoid electrolysis.



Sorry chariot, should not connect your hull to earth grid via a cable conductor in an electrolyte unless you want to make your hull the sacrificial anode to the earthing grid. The earthing grid cannot experience a polarisation shift in the negative direction no matter how many electrons are thrown at it Hence will always turn your hull into an anode. A steel hull will see a potential shift of greater (that is more negative) than 300mV when protected by anodes. This will be lost to the earth grid.
frant
frant
VIC
1230 posts
VIC, 1230 posts
21 Apr 2016 12:18pm
The only way that an "isolated" boat can suffer from stray current corrosion is if there is a potential gradient in the electrolyte (water) from one section of the hull to another. It may then be possible for electrons to jump onto the hull and discharge (causing corrosion) from another due to being immersed in a different potential electrolyte. A similar corrosion can be observed with steel piling immersed in the mud zone. Generally adequate anodes n a vessel will mitigate any danger of stray current corrosion from such potential gradients, albeit with a higher anode consumption rate.
Charriot
Charriot
QLD
880 posts
QLD, 880 posts
21 Apr 2016 12:19pm
in this case I would be worried to run shore power and No Ground, than
Safety switch would not safe ! unless there is a different arrangement put in place
frant
frant
VIC
1230 posts
VIC, 1230 posts
21 Apr 2016 12:33pm
Charriot said..
in this case I would be worried to run shore power and No Ground, than
Safety switch would not safe ! unless there is a different arrangement put in place


An earth leakage safety switch will still work. ie if the same current does not flow through both conductors the safety switch will trip. A steel boat is effectively grounded to earth so no need to add a further cable to another earth. A fibreglass hull is effectively double insulated or you will be using double insulated appliances not connected to earth anyway.
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